Hello all yee flyers,
I'm just finishing up grade 10 in a couple weeks, and now commences the important years of my high school career, before I somehow become a pilot. I was originally planning on attending Mount Royal College, but I'm having second thoughts, and personally I feel having a degree in something other then Aviation would be an excellent asset if aviation doesn't work. Is this a good choice or would I be better off with an aviation degree (I realize both have their ups and downs). Secondly, and more importantly, what kind of degree should I get? I was thinking something of History. I know it depends on who I am, but I'm not really sure, I don't want to pick a random degree. Thanks for ye input
I think I'll get a degree instead
Moderators: Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia
A traditional degree won't hurt, but its usefullness will depend on your area of study. History? My advice is to forget about it unless you want to become a teacher or go on to law school. Same goes for pretty much any arts degree or pure science degree. My advice would be to study engineering, commerce or accounting. When you finish those degrees you are qualified to do something useful and hence stand a better chance of getting a job.
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
If you're planning on getting a degree and becoming a pilot, it would be wise to try and get a degree in something that may be useful at somepoint in your aviation career. There aren't a lot of half pilot half historian jobs out there, but if you had a business or engineering related degree of some sort that could be very useful.
I was in your shoes a few years ago, and when I was in my last year of high school I applied to history/poly-sci programs at universities, aviation programs at colleges. That way I didn't have to commit to one course of action until I could see what schools I had to pick from in both directions. I ended up choosing the college route for a bunch of reasons, but whatever you decide to do, I urge you to keep your options open in grade 11 and 12.
I was in your shoes a few years ago, and when I was in my last year of high school I applied to history/poly-sci programs at universities, aviation programs at colleges. That way I didn't have to commit to one course of action until I could see what schools I had to pick from in both directions. I ended up choosing the college route for a bunch of reasons, but whatever you decide to do, I urge you to keep your options open in grade 11 and 12.
-
Blue Side Down
- Rank 7
- Posts: 581
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 11:27 am
Get a degree in something you enjoy- If something happens and you blow a medical, then it's what you'll be stuck doing for the rest of your life- so make sure it's interesting and fun to do. Besides, if you try to pull off a degree in something that you don't like (or find uninteresting), you'll most likely do poorly in it.
I think that going to school for an aviation related (or associated) degree is useless- same reason as above. How would you like to be stuck in accounting for 40 years. Maybe you'd enjoy it, maybe not.
So look at schools... talk to people... sit in on lectures... screw around with stuff and find what appeals to you. Pursue an education then in your "Plan B" field of study.
Oh, and engineering is very rewarding. ERTW
I think that going to school for an aviation related (or associated) degree is useless- same reason as above. How would you like to be stuck in accounting for 40 years. Maybe you'd enjoy it, maybe not.
So look at schools... talk to people... sit in on lectures... screw around with stuff and find what appeals to you. Pursue an education then in your "Plan B" field of study.
Oh, and engineering is very rewarding. ERTW
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
That's exactly why I chose History - well mentioned it - because I love it. Accounting and engineering, I don't know, don't interest me too much. We shall see though. I definately think the university route is the way to go, then I can really build up my hours and be somewhat more secure in getting a job if I can't as a pilot.
MWadham wrote:That's exactly why I chose History - well mentioned it - because I love it.
If it's something you love, why not choose that as your career? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, but if it's something you enjoy and think you'll do well at, why not follow that path? If you do well at it.. fly for enjoyment.
Punch it Chewy!
-
200hr Wonder
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2212
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:52 pm
- Location: CYVR
- Contact:
Do a year of General Studies! Take a little of everything. Talk to people in third and second year. Hang out drink beer. Play a sport. Live life.
I went from high school right into Computer Science becuase hey I love computers! BAD IDEA. I hated it and did very poorly. So after two years I quit. But hey, I sitll love computers right? So I got a few jobs in the computer buisness during the .com boom and was going to make millions. Herm I think I sitll have 500,000 shares that I can wipe my butt with. It took me about 8 years to learn that any job behind a desk full time would not work for me. So I went out followed something I had always wanted to do and am now an umployeed and deeper in debt commerical pilot. Though I am much happier! I do wish I had done the pilot thing years earliers.
So my advice is to take some time and find out what you love. Life is too stinking short to wake up and go to a job you hate or go to classes you hate. Find out what you love and then do everything in your power to do it. Maybe it has to be not quite your ideal but at lest you are still doing it!
Just my 2 cents worth
Cheers
Maybe I should have taken an english course....
I went from high school right into Computer Science becuase hey I love computers! BAD IDEA. I hated it and did very poorly. So after two years I quit. But hey, I sitll love computers right? So I got a few jobs in the computer buisness during the .com boom and was going to make millions. Herm I think I sitll have 500,000 shares that I can wipe my butt with. It took me about 8 years to learn that any job behind a desk full time would not work for me. So I went out followed something I had always wanted to do and am now an umployeed and deeper in debt commerical pilot. Though I am much happier! I do wish I had done the pilot thing years earliers.
So my advice is to take some time and find out what you love. Life is too stinking short to wake up and go to a job you hate or go to classes you hate. Find out what you love and then do everything in your power to do it. Maybe it has to be not quite your ideal but at lest you are still doing it!
Just my 2 cents worth
Cheers
Maybe I should have taken an english course....
-
bizjet_mania
- Rank 8
- Posts: 982
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:37 am
Nothing wrong with taking a degree in something other than aviation. Incase the industry goes down the tube you can do something else in another industry. Never hurts to take business. If you can't get in as a pilot go management instead. My sisters ex-boyfriend was making $400,000/yr at the age of 29 as a junior executive for an aerospace company.
Trades are good options. But in terms of a degree, I don't agree with the "do something you enjoy" attitude. You'll be flying anyway so why not leave the "fun" times for aviation and work hard in a degree that provides a future!
B.A.s are pretty weak by themselves...BSc.s are more marketable and tend to get jobs much quicker and without further education.
I vote for a BBA (Business Administration) The day you step out of Aviation, get an MBA and join a leading firm...With a pilot background, no one will be too impressed with 2-3000 TT and a Bachelor of History!
Speaking from experience!
B.A.s are pretty weak by themselves...BSc.s are more marketable and tend to get jobs much quicker and without further education.
I vote for a BBA (Business Administration) The day you step out of Aviation, get an MBA and join a leading firm...With a pilot background, no one will be too impressed with 2-3000 TT and a Bachelor of History!
Speaking from experience!
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
My two cents...
This is if money is no object...
Do the BA, then when you're done specialize in something that will get you a real job. A liberal arts education plus specialization is an awesome combination.
Take flying lessons on the side and build time or instruct during the summer break.
Don't become on of those engineer types who know everything about engineering, but basically nothing about anything else. Go for the well-rounded thing first.
As for the part about BS's being stronger... that depends on what you study...
If it's not in an "applied" field, then your BS will be lumped in the same category as a BA. Basically useless from an employer's point of view.
Trust me on that!
If money "is" an object for you, then play it safe and study something "applied"... an applied science or something or a trade.
Go flying on the side wit your extra cash, but whatever you do do not put all your eggs in the aviation basket..
That's a huge gamble.
This is if money is no object...
Do the BA, then when you're done specialize in something that will get you a real job. A liberal arts education plus specialization is an awesome combination.
Take flying lessons on the side and build time or instruct during the summer break.
Don't become on of those engineer types who know everything about engineering, but basically nothing about anything else. Go for the well-rounded thing first.
As for the part about BS's being stronger... that depends on what you study...
If it's not in an "applied" field, then your BS will be lumped in the same category as a BA. Basically useless from an employer's point of view.
Trust me on that!
If money "is" an object for you, then play it safe and study something "applied"... an applied science or something or a trade.
Go flying on the side wit your extra cash, but whatever you do do not put all your eggs in the aviation basket..
That's a huge gamble.
Like I said, you have to drop the "enjoy" part of it. In real life, few people enjoy a job. It's a job. You're in an office, with people you don't like, and doing things to profit a CEO and shareholders...wow!costermonger wrote:Well, if you get a degree in a field you don't enjoy, I doubt you'll really enjoy the jobs that degree might get you in the event an aviation career doesn't work out.
When someone pays you 10K a month, you stop caring about how much you're enjoying the job! Enjoyment should come from a bottle of expensive wine, golf, hockey, a benz, friends, family, birthdays etc...not a "job".
classiv, a BSc. and a BBA whatever they are lead to Graduate degrees, B.A.s usually pop out students that are weak in Math and Finance which makes it harder for them to get Graduate degrees, not impossible, harder.
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. BuffettWell I want to get a degree in something I enjoy, but will also be useful to me with aviation and without.
Because no matter how hard or daunting the task may be, I want to, and will be, a pilotIf it's something you love, why not choose that as your career? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, but if it's something you enjoy and think you'll do well at, why not follow that path? If you do well at it.. fly for enjoyment.
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Fair enough, but I think 16 years old might be a tad early in life to resign yourself to a lifetime of hating your chosen career. Maybe you don't like your job but that's no reason for somebody else to give up on finding something they actually enjoy as a career before they even graduate from highschool.Yoyoma wrote:Like I said, you have to drop the "enjoy" part of it. In real life, few people enjoy a job. It's a job. You're in an office, with people you don't like, and doing things to profit a CEO and shareholders...wow!
Dear MWadham,
So far on this thread I've read conflicting arguments that might confuse you. Some people say that an aviation-specific degree is useless, others say it's a good thing. There are those who say you need to enjoy your chosen education/job and then there are those who say you need to drop the word 'enjoy' from your vocabulary and go for something which gives you the most money. Who is correct?
MWadham there is no easy path. There are airline captains with no post-secondary education and then there are those with a university degree who are unemployed. Some people do seek jobs that gives them the most money but then find out in their later years that they are on a treadmill getting nowhere. Others go for jobs that they enjoy but pay very little and then they too realize they aint getting anywhere.
MWadham remember getting an education is a very good idea(diploma or degree). Find something that is useful and gives you practical skills. Don't forget that being 'nice' to others always works in your favor in this industry. Some are 'educated' but are complete dorks. Take your time. Sleep on it. Think carefully.
So far on this thread I've read conflicting arguments that might confuse you. Some people say that an aviation-specific degree is useless, others say it's a good thing. There are those who say you need to enjoy your chosen education/job and then there are those who say you need to drop the word 'enjoy' from your vocabulary and go for something which gives you the most money. Who is correct?
MWadham there is no easy path. There are airline captains with no post-secondary education and then there are those with a university degree who are unemployed. Some people do seek jobs that gives them the most money but then find out in their later years that they are on a treadmill getting nowhere. Others go for jobs that they enjoy but pay very little and then they too realize they aint getting anywhere.
MWadham remember getting an education is a very good idea(diploma or degree). Find something that is useful and gives you practical skills. Don't forget that being 'nice' to others always works in your favor in this industry. Some are 'educated' but are complete dorks. Take your time. Sleep on it. Think carefully.
Shtinky, that's excellent advice!
MWadham, I don't wish to corrupt you or to give you a pessimistic view on life. But, I have found that as you grow older, priorities change in life. Would my dad be proud if he heard me admit that!
What was once "cool" becomes futile and the "boring" stuff becomes a necessity.
Kissing a girl when you're 5 or 6 is at the bottom of your list while at 16, it's you purpose in life! Tell me, how often do you think of your kid's college fund? or your mortgage? I bet not often eh? Well, as you age, priorities change and you might want to consider that in your career choices!
Also, I'm someone who has a degree and who has used it in Aviation. So I do believe I know what I'm talking about. You'll find that Aviation doesn't pay as well and is not as rewarding as it looks. You'll also discover that after earning those wings, if you're not behind the controls, it's not aviation. I found it depressing to be sitting in my office, staring at the Airbus being test flown outside my window!
So the natural progression will lead you to accept positions outside of Aviation. Perhaps fly on the side or purchase our own bird. I don't own one but 3 of my bosses owned birds or instructed on the weekends. I'm talking guys who earn north of 300K$/year.
To sum it up, follow your dreams and make the most of them. I never regretted learning to fly. It was awesome. I can't wait to one day, drive into an airport with my family, load up a Cherokee or a 210, and go for a weekend somewhere!
You'll never regret being well off and having a good salary, even if the job is boring. The opposite situation might be problematic since it doesn't offer you the possibility to escape and turn it around.
Wishing you the best of luck!
Yoyoma
MWadham, I don't wish to corrupt you or to give you a pessimistic view on life. But, I have found that as you grow older, priorities change in life. Would my dad be proud if he heard me admit that!
What was once "cool" becomes futile and the "boring" stuff becomes a necessity.Kissing a girl when you're 5 or 6 is at the bottom of your list while at 16, it's you purpose in life! Tell me, how often do you think of your kid's college fund? or your mortgage? I bet not often eh? Well, as you age, priorities change and you might want to consider that in your career choices!
Also, I'm someone who has a degree and who has used it in Aviation. So I do believe I know what I'm talking about. You'll find that Aviation doesn't pay as well and is not as rewarding as it looks. You'll also discover that after earning those wings, if you're not behind the controls, it's not aviation. I found it depressing to be sitting in my office, staring at the Airbus being test flown outside my window!
So the natural progression will lead you to accept positions outside of Aviation. Perhaps fly on the side or purchase our own bird. I don't own one but 3 of my bosses owned birds or instructed on the weekends. I'm talking guys who earn north of 300K$/year.
To sum it up, follow your dreams and make the most of them. I never regretted learning to fly. It was awesome. I can't wait to one day, drive into an airport with my family, load up a Cherokee or a 210, and go for a weekend somewhere!
You'll never regret being well off and having a good salary, even if the job is boring. The opposite situation might be problematic since it doesn't offer you the possibility to escape and turn it around.
Wishing you the best of luck!
Yoyoma
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffettmaybe look at the UWO program in London, Ont. You do all of your flying at the same time as a business degree.
This gets you all of your flying and a degree in a well structured program. I graduated from the program in 2003 and everyone has found jobs ranging from flight instructing to TC to marketing and sales positions to Canadian Forces.
Something to think about. PM me if you want more info.
This gets you all of your flying and a degree in a well structured program. I graduated from the program in 2003 and everyone has found jobs ranging from flight instructing to TC to marketing and sales positions to Canadian Forces.
Something to think about. PM me if you want more info.
-
Blue Side Down
- Rank 7
- Posts: 581
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 11:27 am
Think about priorities... if they're to fly- fly at a flying school. If they're to get a degree- go to university. I reccomend not to mix the two. Besides, if you poke out an eye two years after graduation, where does that leave you if you did the CAM program?FrankD wrote:maybe look at the UWO program in London, Ont. You do all of your flying at the same time as a business degree.
-
FunkyMunky
- Rank 0
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:28 am
It leaves you with a B. ACS degree, same as any student in the non-flying portion (the degree is a stand-alone degree and is exactly the same whether one takes flight instruction or not). The CAM degree is only slightly different than other specializations within B.ACS (such as finance) in that it has aviation slanted courses i.e. economics of air transportation. Someone with this degree could expect to go into the managerial side of an aviation related business or possibly into any business, although the skills would be harder to market. So basically, you lose your medical, decide aviation isn't for you etc, and you find a desk job. Several graduates are already in such desk jobs (places like Cathay, Jazz), while others are instructors or with photo ops, etc.
Since flying is in addition to a full course load, the program can be very demanding, but it is also very rewarding. It's not for everyone, though. Some would be happier with an engineering (or other) degree and doing flying separately. IMO, this degree is only worth it if you are intersted in business in the first place, or can at least tolerate it.
MWadham: there are options to take history (including history of aviation) courses, and you can do a minor in history as well. Again, don't go into this program if you really hate business.
Cheers.
FM
Since flying is in addition to a full course load, the program can be very demanding, but it is also very rewarding. It's not for everyone, though. Some would be happier with an engineering (or other) degree and doing flying separately. IMO, this degree is only worth it if you are intersted in business in the first place, or can at least tolerate it.
MWadham: there are options to take history (including history of aviation) courses, and you can do a minor in history as well. Again, don't go into this program if you really hate business.
Cheers.
FM
But again, for what purpose? He needs a backup, a plan B! What's history going to do for him if he leaves aviation? Business is not as fun for some, but then, you can run a museum, an art gallery, a music shop, work in management at an airline, a tattoo place...whatever!!FunkyMunky wrote:MWadham: there are options to take history (including history of aviation) courses, and you can do a minor in history as well. Again, don't go into this program if you really hate business.
A close friend of mine left aviation and his backup plan was art, he's now unemployed and relying on his wife to support him!! So why bother?
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett-
FunkyMunky
- Rank 0
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:28 am
Well in this case, the backup plan would be business. i.e. museum, art gallery, tattoo place, or aviation.
Lots of people do minors in unrelated fields for pure personal enjoyment, and self improvement. If one likes history, I think it would be worthwhile to pursue a minor in it, regardless of its relation to future employment. They still would have the business degree, afterall. So many people go to university and end up doing degrees in areas that they don't particularly enjoy and have no real plans/desire to work in. Try talking to some university students sometime. When asked what they intend to do with their degree, many reply "I have absolutely no idea". Some don't even know why they chose the area that they did. I think we can all agree that to put the time and money into a degree that you don't enjoy and can't make work for you is a waste, and a mistake. Many of these people end up not doing well (because they don't enjoy it and have no purpose), and therefore elimante the possibilty of grad school as well. I think it's important for anyone doing post-secondary (or choosing not do do post-secondary) to know a)why they are doing it and b) where they plan to go with it.
FM
Sorry, Yoyoma, if I misread your post.
Lots of people do minors in unrelated fields for pure personal enjoyment, and self improvement. If one likes history, I think it would be worthwhile to pursue a minor in it, regardless of its relation to future employment. They still would have the business degree, afterall. So many people go to university and end up doing degrees in areas that they don't particularly enjoy and have no real plans/desire to work in. Try talking to some university students sometime. When asked what they intend to do with their degree, many reply "I have absolutely no idea". Some don't even know why they chose the area that they did. I think we can all agree that to put the time and money into a degree that you don't enjoy and can't make work for you is a waste, and a mistake. Many of these people end up not doing well (because they don't enjoy it and have no purpose), and therefore elimante the possibilty of grad school as well. I think it's important for anyone doing post-secondary (or choosing not do do post-secondary) to know a)why they are doing it and b) where they plan to go with it.
FM
Sorry, Yoyoma, if I misread your post.
