Extra 200 or 300L

[Colonel Sanders]

paint that nice grey plane red if the little star wasn't enough

Nah, it's too big to be painted solid red. I'd
go with black with a red star - that's what
the cool guys fly:

[Beefitarian]

I see they let you fly it too. Ziiiiiiiiiiiiiing!!

[Colonel Sanders]

Hey, those were my Justin Beiber years. I was young.
I needed the money. I thought it was "art". I've cut my
hair since then!

[Beefitarian]

Seriously though. It would probably be a ton of work to import a Yak-54 but akoch could possibly find one on a trip to visit people.

Tell us what makes them one of your favorites. It's a two seater so that's a start.

[akoch]

I saw the Yak-54s at an airshow once. Looks like a fine machine. In Russia they have reputation of a more budget version of the Sukhoj 29, and also being somewhat easier to fly.

Hangar access is not an issue, I really don't like storing any airplane outside anyway.

But given choices like Yak-54, Su-29 or Extra, would not the Extra be simpler and less expensive to maintain? Also with a more familiar engine, better part supply etc?

[akoch]

CS is killing me with his L39s! I want to be CS when I grow up

[Beefitarian]

I suspect the only reason a Yak-54 would be more difficult is if you have the wrong AME. The extras will be more expensive apart from if you're in a hurry to get a part.

I anticipate more explainations on how nice the L-39 is to work on.
He already mentioned a page ago.

For the same price as an uber-expensive composite
monoplane, you could buy a Pitts S-1 and an L39.

I want to be CS when I grow up

Sorry, you have to choose one.

[Colonel Sanders]

Yak-54, Su-29 or Extra

SU-29: too much money
Extra: old man's airplane. Certified. Expensive.
Yak-54: super-exclusive. Horny lines. Metal construction.

I'm sure the Yak-54 wouldn't perform quite as well
as the SU-29 (or even the Extra) but again, I'm not
sure that's the point.

It's super-cool, being the only person in the entire
country to own a really hot looking (and pretty good
performing) aerobatic aircraft.

It's so subjective. Fly before you buy! FWIW I'd take a
Yak-54 over a SU-29 or Extra, but that's just me. I'd
rather fly the Beech 18 than the 421, even though it's
nowhere near as quiet, fast, comfortable, and unpressurized
so I can't get over any weather. But the Beech 18 is just
so cool!

you have to choose one

My, Beef is in fine form this evening Reminds
me of the time I got drunk and went to Yuk-yuk's
and made the mistake of sitting in the front row -
the seats were empty.

[Beefitarian]

Too cheap to get drunk at Yuk yuks I see. Get a real job ya bum!

What about a 52. I know it has the extra wheel on the wrong end but cheap cheap..

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 208763.htm

[Colonel Sanders]

Yeah, I know the Yak-52 - various friends of mine
fly them. They sound cool - how do you go wrong
with a radial engine? - and look good in the air, and
you can get smoke for them ...

But then the gear comes down. Like many aircraft,
they look a bit ungraceful on the ground, like
this Questair, which is uber-cool in the air, but
looks like it's about to trip over it's shoelaces
on the ground:



I'm sure the Yak-52 is a great airplane, but subjectively,
it reminds me of a training bra. Probably the nosewheel!

Even the mighty F-104 on the ground, well:

[Beefitarian]

Sure it's not cool looking but at least you can make a phone call while you taxi. Just watchout for the lights.

If you buy an F-104 you can post pictures or videos and make the Colonel jealous.

[P-40]

Get the airplane that you enjoy to fly, unless you intend to
compete at the next WAC, in which case an Extra is the
wrong choice.

Why would that be ?

[akoch]

[Many don't need an S-1 to make them better pilots, this far cheaper bird to run would fix most of their issues, if they could at least fly it twice a month.

Shiny, is this a Citabria?

[Colonel Sanders]

Why would that be ?

Look at the WAC results for the last 10 years,
and tell me how many Extra 300L's that you
see there.

They are old men's airplanes. Heavy. Certified.
You want a world-class composite monoplane
(not sure why, but ...) look at an MXS-RH. Phone
up Chris Meyer. He's a hoot, btw.



PS Good luck at the WAC! I didn't even know
Canada had a team.

[akoch]

sick. No, this is SICK

[looproll]

I couldn't be happier with the purchase of my Pitts S-1S a few years ago. Amazing bang-for-the-buck. Low purchase price, reasonable operating cost. Most of the points have already been covered. I don't understand why more intrepid aviators don't try one out for a while.

I had about 5000 hours flight time when I got mine. It has basically taught me how to fly again. It's really put an incredible amount of fun back into flying for me.

For the number of times I would take a passenger, it's not really worth it to have a second seat. And really, if you're doing aerobatics with an uninitiated friend, you're not going to be doing any hard acro anyways, it's just a joy ride.

It's uncomfortable for cross country flights, has nearly zero room for a bag, and it's very cold inside when the temp. drops. It also rolls fast, climbs like crazy, and it's a freakin' biplane. How awesome is that!?

[P-40]

Why would that be ?

Look at the WAC results for the last 10 years,
and tell me how many Extra 300L's that you
see there.

They are old men's airplanes. Heavy. Certified.
You want a world-class composite monoplane
(not sure why, but ...) look at an MXS-RH. Phone
up Chris Meyer. He's a hoot, btw.



PS Good luck at the WAC! I didn't even know
Canada had a team.

You said an Extra, not specifically a 300L. I do realize a 300L is no longer a contending unlimited mount, a 330LX sure is.

A 330SC won overall at WAC in the hands of Renaud Ecalle in 2009 BTW.

P.S. Canada will have a team at WAC

[Beefitarian]

You meant the mx2 right?

http://www.mxaircraft.com/mx2-pricelist.php

[Colonel Sanders]

You said an Extra, not specifically a 300L

Sorry - there's a bit of a reality gap. If you look at the TC
registry, there are precisely FIVE Extras (of all models) that
are registered in Canada, and all of them are 300L's - none
of them are the ones you're referring to.

For a period of many years, the Extra completely disappeared
from the WAC - check the records. It was no longer competitive.

Extra was working on the IFR 400, and I heard nearly went
broke - at least, that's what I was told in St Augustine. In
recent years they started to bring out newer models with
the more powerful AEIO-580, and that's what you're referring
to. But I don't see any of those in Canada.

[tiggermoth]

You meant the mx2 right?

Nope, the good Colonel got'er right. It is an MXS-RH that Rob Holland is flying now. The MXS is a single seat version of the MX-2, and the MXS-RH is one that has been tweaked and fine tuned for Rob.

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/aircraf ... anger.html

The stuff he can do in that airplane looks incredible. And, just for fun, here is a partial list of his achievments in MX aircraft:

2008-Advanced World Aerobatic Champion (MX-2)
2011-8th place, Unlimited WAC. First place 4 minute Freestyle at unlimited WAC. US National Aerobatic Champion (MXS-RH)
2012-US National Aerobatic Champion (MXS-RH)

I had the priviledge to meet and work with Rob when he came up to perform at our airshow in Fort St. John back in 2009. He had his MX-2 then. He is a real nice guy and a lot of fun to chat with and work with.

As for the original questions, if I win the lottery, I kind of like the looks of the new Xtreme Air XA-42. But realistically, I am saving my money so that once I sell my old C172, I can get me a Super D

[P-40]

Sorry - there's a bit of a reality gap. If you look at the TC
registry, there are precisely FIVE Extras (of all models) that
are registered in Canada, and all of them are 300L's - none
of them are the ones you're referring to.

So there are no 580 powered (there will soon be a 330SC in B.C.) Extra's in Canada, how is this relevant to the Extra not being competitive at WAC ? There are quite a few south of the border as there are Edge 540's (how many of those reside in Canada ?).

For a period of many years, the Extra completely disappeared
from the WAC - check the records. It was no longer competitive.

Kind of like the Pitts some 30 years ago when Charlie Hillard last took victory in one.

Extra was working on the IFR 400, and I heard nearly went
broke - at least, that's what I was told in St Augustine. In
recent years they started to bring out newer models with
the more powerful AEIO-580, and that's what you're referring
to. But I don't see any of those in Canada.

Yes. I was referring to the 580 powered 330's as I know the 300L is no longer a competitive unlimited mount. The 300L is more commonly seen in sportsman/Intermediate now.

[Colonel Sanders]

how is this relevant to the Extra not being competitive at WAC ?

All of the Extras in Canada are the 300L. If you purchase any
one of them, it will not be competitive at the WAC.

Not sure I can make that any simpler.

[Jerz]

Hey Alex. Here are my 2 cents:
I have flown Extra 300 ( used to own one), 300L (used to ferry for Northern Lights), and 200. The best bang for your buck is by far the mid wing 300. You can get one for the price of a 200 - around $150k. The 300 flies acro the best (not great, just better then 300L / 200) and is faster then 300L. The 200 is like a Decathlon with 360 deg roll rate and a tiny front cockpit - not too impressive. Unfortunately, there is a reason you get all this at a discount of $100k compered to 300L. That reason is poor visibility, especially on the ground and in the flair. For me it is worth it, as I fly for a living ,so I am poor. You learn to deal with it. When you land 300 on anything narrower then 75 feet and you see the runway edge, you will land in the ditch next to it. Many doctors and lawyers have proven it and that's why Extra came out with the 300L, spoiling the fine airplane in the process.
All 3 make a reasonably good cross country machines, but as any compromise, they dont excel at anything. Yes, there is an issue of small acro fuel tank and de-laminating long range wing tanks, if you roll with fuel in them. Also cracking fuselage longerones (from high speed snaps)- can be fixed permanently. Also, if you fly like you mean it - you can rip aileron bellcrank attachments from the wings - makes for an interesting landing at 200kts. There is also a questions about certification in Canada - watch the serial numbers. Or you go Special C of A / limited.
Yes, parts are easier to obtain then for any Russian a/c, but you will need more of them and at 3 times the price. Lyc 540 will last you 500hrs of serious acro. M14P will do at least twice that or more.
Don't kid yourself that you will be happy with 200. It's possible, but only until you fly 300. You will hate the 200 after that.
The 200 is an Intermediate level machine, 300 and 300L are solid Advanced, or marginal Unlimited types. The new 330SC looks similar, but is a world class unlimited bird.
I would keep the Katana for X-country and buy S1S for loops and rolls. Spend the change on Avgas and coaching.
If you have more specific questions, send me an e-mail. Also contact the club in Van - Peter or Brandon will help you out.
Good luck
Jerzy

[akoch]

Jerzy,

wow, could not have asked for a better advice! Thank you very much, really great info. You clarified exactly the points I was looking for - the viability of the EA200 purchase, 200/300 mid-wing vs low-wing, weaknesses, differences, what to look for and operating expenses.

It is an eye opener how CS and you independently suggest taking a look at one of the Russian machines. This does give me food for thought. I'll ask around over there, to see what could be found.

And it starts to sink in that a better way to do it could be a second affordable beginner acro airplane. The one that I could put into the corner of the hangar, or may be get one of those aerolifts to stack them up. A bigger hangar would be nice

[Beefitarian]

You meant the mx2 right?

Nope, the good Colonel got'er right. It is an MXS-RH that Rob Holland is flying now. The MXS is a single seat version of the MX-2, and the MXS-RH is one that has been tweaked and fine tuned for Rob.

Ah but in this thread we are looking for a two seat airplane for akoch. I believe Mr Holland already has a plane.