Colonel Sanders wrote:Funny how you had to go back 150 years to find something
bad that a white person did - with your usual bias of hatred
of western nations, which oddly enough you choose to live in.
Would you like me to list all the nasty things Arabs have done
in the last 150 years? That would seem only fair.
My point was that having to earn your way in life by hucking bags for six months isn't so bad compared to what other people had to go through to get somewhere in life, but thanks for your comments anyways.
Shiny Side Up wrote:
Working on the railway, paradoxically was probably a step up for most Chinese at the time
Shiny Side Up wrote:
Working on the railway, paradoxically was probably a step up for most Chinese at the time
Especially the ones buried along the route
When one considers that at the time if you lived in China you had a 1 in 10 chance of starving to death, the slightly lesser risk dying in an explosion might have been preferable. CP rail being of course a slightly higher rate of pay than the typical peasant living under the Qing dynasty.
Colonel Sanders wrote:Funny how you had to go back 150 years to find something
bad that a white person did - with your usual bias of hatred
of western nations, which oddly enough you choose to live in.
Would you like me to list all the nasty things Arabs have done
in the last 150 years? That would seem only fair.
I like this tread, as I learn something new here. Let's leave the geo political out of it please.
Shiny Side Up wrote:
Working on the railway, paradoxically was probably a step up for most Chinese at the time
Especially the ones buried along the route
When one considers that at the time if you lived in China you had a 1 in 10 chance of starving to death, the slightly lesser risk dying in an explosion might have been preferable. CP rail being of course a slightly higher rate of pay than the typical peasant living under the Qing dynasty.
They just may one day buy the CPR. It will serve them well, as a tool to facilitate exports through BC.
This may come as a shock to you but the part of Canada Im in does not have a white plurality, unless you hang around Main and Hastings or the 7-Eleven in Aldergrove. It looks like this:
There are places in Canada that are 95% white and the remainder mostly First Nations, the most economically depressed parts of Canada. They look like this:
Put some fuel in that Maule of yours and come see what this country looks like past the Smith Falls airport, you might be surprised what you discover.
frozen solid wrote:
He could drive a GP-9 like he owned it and it owed him money, which is a strange thing to say about a train, but like I said he was a cool hand, at least I thought so when I was 20.
Those engines were all built before they even got around to getting rid of steam engines. I thought they were cool old things too. I wonder if they still use them.
I prefer to run them like I don't own a bolt in them
The GP-9s are still around, mostly retrofitted with beltpack and in yard service, it's kind of interesting to run locomotives that were around when my great grandfather was a section foreman.
I'm quite surprised at the number of railroaders that have come out the woodwork on this aviation forum.
So how does one get a jumpstart in the railroading industry? It's not like there's train schools around where you can get your engineers licence. I know CN or CP would train you of course but it must be hard to get in with no prior experience other than an H.O. train set when I was a kid. Would be a great job in the future if the aviation race to the bottom continues.
PS. I think it's terrible so many rail lines were abandoned and now our highways are clogged with thousands of trucks. They might as well lay down rails on the 401 with the amount of tractor trailers on it now!
So how does one get a jumpstart in the railroading industry?
From what I know, rail is probably the only industry that is worse than aviation for the whole "who you know" principle. CP in particular seems pretty insular, and most people who work there don't advertise the fact. This is mostly because the railroads are one of the chief complaint recievers in this country (there's only one thing Canadians hate more than airplane noise and that's train noise). CP is like a private empire in Canada, and still the largest landholder if I remember rightly, though not as large as they used to be when they owned everything within a 100 yards of any of their tracks. This has given them a sort of "screw you" method of dealing with the Canadian public. Legend has it that they tunneled through a mountain once to avoid paying some clever businessman who thought he was going to profit off of them. Just to give you an idea of how they operate.
Inverted2 wrote:So how does one get a jumpstart in the railroading industry? It's not like there's train schools around where you can get your engineers licence. I know CN or CP would train you of course but it must be hard to get in with no prior experience other than an H.O. train set when I was a kid. Would be a great job in the future if the aviation race to the bottom continues.
PS. I think it's terrible so many rail lines were abandoned and now our highways are clogged with thousands of trucks. They might as well lay down rails on the 401 with the amount of tractor trailers on it now!
Apply!
That's really all you have to do. Both SAIT and BCIT are happy to take your money for their conductor training programs (from what I hear they do help with employment at CP, but CN really doesn't care). but from what I've seen from their graduates those programs really don't give you an advantage over anyone off the street in terms of actual practical knowledge.
Shiny Side Up wrote:
From what I know, rail is probably the only industry that is worse than aviation for the whole "who you know" principle. CP in particular seems pretty insular, and most people who work there don't advertise the fact.
There was a time when this was true, but that time is long gone. Given the rate of retirements and manpower demands on Canada's railways they will hire you no matter whose son or cousin you are. Assignments/vacation/layoffs/your entire life are determined by seniority, not by nepotism.
I can't speak for how it works at CP, but on CN your seniority is determined by your application date so if you are considering applying to the railway do so immediately. When I applied I dithered for a few days and it cost me several seniority numbers. My indecisiveness then continues to affect me to this day, so if you are even tentatively considering it apply now. You can always say no if they call and you don't want to go.
In British Columbia, the CPR hired workers from China, called coolies. A navvy received between $1 and $2.50 per day, but had to pay for his own food, clothing, transportation to the job site, mail and medical care. After 2-1/2 months of back-breaking labour, they could net as little as $16. Chinese coolies in British Columbia made only between 75 cents and $1.25 a day, paid in rice mats, and not including expenses, leaving barely anything to send home. They did the most dangerous construction jobs, such as working with explosives to clear tunnels through rock. The families of the Chinese who were killed received no compensation, or even notification of loss of life. Many of the men who survived did not have enough money to return to their families in China, although Chinese labour contractors had promised that as part of their responsibilities. Many spent years in lonely, sad and often poor conditions. Yet the Chinese were hard working and played a key role in building the western stretch of the railway; even some boys as young as 12 years old served as tea-boys. In 2006 the Canadian government issued a formal apology to the Chinese population in Canada for their treatment both during and following the construction of the CPR.
Wow, sounds very similar to the plight of laborers from the Indian Sub-Continent in the Middle East today.
Inverted2 wrote: but it must be hard to get in with no prior experience other than an H.O. train set when I was a kid.
Actually when I applied that's exactly what got me the job. Other than the expected H.R. questions (and this BS was in its infancy 20 years ago, at least where I was) most of the interview centered around a guy (later he turned out to be the rules instructor) showing me track diagrams and asking me to explain how locomotive "A" would get from one side of the train to the other, or how it would negotiate a Wye, how I thought continuous air brakes and knuckle couplers worked, and stuff like that. HO scale trains was how I learned about all that stuff.
All those noise complaints? For an entire summer that was me on the night shift bashing coal and grain cars together and watching the lights come on in neighborhoods beside the tracks. Pure heaven. (for me, not you if you live beside the tracks. I like making noise)
In British Columbia, the CPR hired workers from China, called coolies. A navvy received between $1 and $2.50 per day, but had to pay for his own food, clothing, transportation to the job site, mail and medical care. After 2-1/2 months of back-breaking labour, they could net as little as $16. Chinese coolies in British Columbia made only between 75 cents and $1.25 a day, paid in rice mats, and not including expenses, leaving barely anything to send home. They did the most dangerous construction jobs, such as working with explosives to clear tunnels through rock. The families of the Chinese who were killed received no compensation, or even notification of loss of life. Many of the men who survived did not have enough money to return to their families in China, although Chinese labour contractors had promised that as part of their responsibilities. Many spent years in lonely, sad and often poor conditions. Yet the Chinese were hard working and played a key role in building the western stretch of the railway; even some boys as young as 12 years old served as tea-boys. In 2006 the Canadian government issued a formal apology to the Chinese population in Canada for their treatment both during and following the construction of the CPR.
Wow, sounds very similar to the plight of laborers from the Indian Sub-Continent in the Middle East today.
So true! Except the Emirs will never apologize for anything.
Seniority at cp is determined the same way. It starts from the time they received your application. They usually hire in big groups(class), so a bunch of guys all hired the same day, seniority is based on application times. I was basically a shoe in here in Kenora as I had family working there, I still had to go through the process of all cp bullshit interviews. The first run was a room with about 150 guys who had thier application selected. They made us do some bullshit essay that had absolutely nothing to do with trains or railroads, it was a test to see how we could follow specific directions. I'm sure they didn't even read the essay. They put a red pen, blue pen and a pencil in front of you, then asked to print your name in the bottom left corner of the page with the blue pen, date in the top right corner with the red etc. that's how they weeded out the first 100 people! If you made it you were asked to come back in the room. Then it was aptitude tests for a couple hours. Then if you made it from there you were contacted a few days later and given a date for a behavioral based interview, which was reall strange to go through. If you passed the interview, onto drug and criminal recor tests. The process took 2 weeks. Then the gave you a hire on date and show up for class. It was a bit of a shit show to say the keast
I've always been curious, whenever we fly a new type of airplane we need at least a type check. If you go from say, and SD40-2 to an AC4400 do you need any differences training or is it always just put it in forward, select Run 1 and go?
They are all the same for the most part. Guys got some traing when they installed the FTO(fuel trip optimizer) its like auto pilot. It's ran by gps satellite, it knows where the train is on the subdivisions it's running on and uses hills and corners to gain or lose speed. It's a brutal system. So to answer your question there are no type certificates, or ratings. Once trained as a hogger you drive whatever you get.
Lots of guys prefer the old sd's to the newer power because the throttle response is really poor on some of the new units, they take some time to load up where the sd40 is instant, which makes it the choice for yards and switching. Being in a sd40 is kinda like being in an old otter, hot and loud and shakes like a bastard in throttle 8.
floatpilot wrote:They are all the same for the most part. Guys got some traing when they installed the FTO(fuel trip optimizer) its like auto pilot. It's ran by gps satellite, it knows where the train is on the subdivisions it's running on and uses hills and corners to gain or lose speed. It's a brutal system. So to answer your question there are no type certificates, or ratings. Once trained as a hogger you drive whatever you get.
When you say the FTO is brutal do you mean it doesn't anticipate well? It's not smooth? Are you mandated to use it or can you just hand bomb it?
Lots of guys prefer the old sd's to the newer power because the throttle response is really poor on some of the new units, they take some time to load up where the sd40 is instant, which makes it the choice for yards and switching.
Is all the new power ac traction motors or do they still make dc too?
Being in a sd40 is kinda like being in an old otter, hot and loud and shakes like a bastard in throttle 8.
Great comparison. I scrounged a cab ride in an sd40 once, it was awesome.
Thanks for answering all my stupid questions about trains on an aviation forum.
I shoul have explained the FTO better. You guessed correct, it has a hard time sometimes controlling speeds at parts of a sub. It never goes too fast it's always way under. what this does is ruin the "swing" as we call it and there is no way you are saving anything. Burning way more fuel and add time on the trip. The FTO can not control a train as well as a human can by a long shot. It is always allowing the slack to run in and out and that us very bad for a conductor at 2 in the morning when he has to change a knuckle a mile back because the it broke your train in half or more. I've seen the FTO rip a train in 4 chunks. It is getting better but is still needs a long way. It is mandatory to use FTO on units equipped with it and non compliance is punished with demerit points. We can get to sixty then fired! Driving a train is all about when to get on the gas and when to get off of it, old hoggers make it look so easy, but I'll assure you that there is lots going on. It's all mental and really mowing the lay of the land, it is really hard to see the grade as in my area they are very suddle. Once you have your subdivision memorized then it's time to learn how to run different kinds of trains..they are all different. The big long double stack container trains you see are usually the fast freights and are about the easiest to control because the weights on the cars for the most part are the same and the train in total us fairly light. A grain train or crude oil are classified as bulk trains and are big heavy pigs, swing is everything on these. These trains are fairly easy to run as well just heavy. The worst trains are the mixed train, with big weights all over the place. These are a little tricky and you need to be very carful with the slack, always try to keep it stretched. a good hogger does this, FTO can not. The very worst are the short heavy trains, like a ballast train. Mabe only 50 to 100 short cars long but can get away from a guy in a hurry if not paying attention. The longer trains things take more time to happen, shirt ones thing happen fast. Most trains cp runs are under 10000 feet. The hundred series will be right up there, grain and oil are usually 6500 feet or so and about 286 thousand pounds per car.
One thing about railroading that is still a little nerve racking is meeting a train at 60 mph at night. You can see the other guy for a long ways away and it always looks like he's on your track! Or running track speed through snow or fog, or some guys will shut the lights out. It takes time to get used to going 60 mph into absolutely zero vis.
Edit to add. The slack on a train can be up to 3 or 4 hundred feet!
True North wrote:
Is all the new power ac traction motors or do they still make dc too?
DC power is still being made. CN just received its first AC locomotives last year, they make a big difference hauling coal trains over the mountains when traction conditions are poor.
flatface wrote:
What are the visual acuity requirements to get a job there?
You absolutely must have perfect colour vision. I'm not sure what the actual acuity requirements are, but I believe that you must be correctable to normal, or near normal vision.
floatpilot wrote:I shoul have explained the FTO better. You guessed correct, it has a hard time sometimes controlling speeds at parts of a sub. It never goes too fast it's always way under. what this does is ruin the "swing" as we call it and there is no way you are saving anything. Burning way more fuel and add time on the trip. The FTO can not control a train as well as a human can by a long shot. It is always allowing the slack to run in and out and that us very bad for a conductor at 2 in the morning when he has to change a knuckle a mile back because the it broke your train in half or more. I've seen the FTO rip a train in 4 chunks. It is getting better but is still needs a long way. It is mandatory to use FTO on units equipped with it and non compliance is punished with demerit points. We can get to sixty then fired! Driving a train is all about when to get on the gas and when to get off of it, old hoggers make it look so easy, but I'll assure you that there is lots going on. It's all mental and really mowing the lay of the land, it is really hard to see the grade as in my area they are very suddle. Once you have your subdivision memorized then it's time to learn how to run different kinds of trains..they are all different. The big long double stack container trains you see are usually the fast freights and are about the easiest to control because the weights on the cars for the most part are the same and the train in total us fairly light. A grain train or crude oil are classified as bulk trains and are big heavy pigs, swing is everything on these. These trains are fairly easy to run as well just heavy. The worst trains are the mixed train, with big weights all over the place. These are a little tricky and you need to be very carful with the slack, always try to keep it stretched. a good hogger does this, FTO can not. The very worst are the short heavy trains, like a ballast train. Mabe only 50 to 100 short cars long but can get away from a guy in a hurry if not paying attention. The longer trains things take more time to happen, shirt ones thing happen fast. Most trains cp runs are under 10000 feet. The hundred series will be right up there, grain and oil are usually 6500 feet or so and about 286 thousand pounds per car.
One thing about railroading that is still a little nerve racking is meeting a train at 60 mph at night. You can see the other guy for a long ways away and it always looks like he's on your track! Or running track speed through snow or fog, or some guys will shut the lights out. It takes time to get used to going 60 mph into absolutely zero vis.
Edit to add. The slack on a train can be up to 3 or 4 hundred feet!
Luckily they haven't refined trip optimizer to the point that it can control trains where I work so I'm enjoying getting to actually drive the things while I still can!
