When did they start giving IFR ratings to pilots who could not hand fly an aircraft on instruments and not know where they were?To be a qualified, safe IFR pilot, again in my younger but old school mentality, you should be able to hand fly approaches, without GPS if necessary, without getting behind the airplane, without losing situational awareness in your mind --
Cirrus chutes
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- Cat Driver
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Re: Cirrus chutes
Well...is it ever required to demonstrate to proficiency, situational awareness or accurate control with the Gps turned off?Cat Driver wrote:When did they start giving IFR ratings to pilots who could not hand fly an aircraft on instruments and not know where they were?To be a qualified, safe IFR pilot, again in my younger but old school mentality, you should be able to hand fly approaches, without GPS if necessary, without getting behind the airplane, without losing situational awareness in your mind --
Re: Cirrus chutes
good question.scary stuff when a guy cant even get to 1300`AGL without panicking on an ILS. if he got cleared for an NDB he probably would have just pulled the chute outright instead of getting all the way to the OM.Cat Driver wrote:When did they start giving IFR ratings to pilots who could not hand fly an aircraft on instruments and not know where they were?To be a qualified, safe IFR pilot, again in my younger but old school mentality, you should be able to hand fly approaches, without GPS if necessary, without getting behind the airplane, without losing situational awareness in your mind --
- Cat Driver
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Re: Cirrus chutes
I am afraid I do not understand your question..Well...is it ever required to demonstrate to proficiency, situational awareness or accurate control with the Gps turned off?
I guess the world of flying has changed to the point I do not understand how people fly or how they are aware of where they are.
By the way I notice you think " old school " , what is old school?
- Colonel Sanders
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Boy, do I know that feeling.the world of flying has changed to the point I do not understand how people fly
Someone that isn't in the Justin Beiber (or Trudeau) fan club.what is old school?
You get a pass if you love Taylor Swift.
Back on topic ...
When I am checking out in a new (to me) aircraft type,
first I need to master the systems (including avionics)
of the aircraft. I need to understand them, and to learn
how to correctly operate them.
A good example might be the GPS and autopilot. I could
fly an aircraft without ever learning how to use the GPS
or autopilot but that would be bizarre to have such wonderful
and helpful equipment in the panel, but never turn it on.
Sure, you could maybe just learn to dial in the comm
and vor freqs and hand-fly it from VOR to VOR but
I think most people would agree that you were not
checked out on type if you could not operate the
equipment in it (wx radar, etc).
One might refer to the above as "normal procedures".
Once masters "normal procedures", it is time to begin
training on "emergency procedures".
"Emergency procedures" is what you do when something
goes wrong. You know, stuff breaks. Let's say that the
autopilot fails. Well, it's time to demonstrate the ability
to manually hold a heading and altitude in the absence
of exterior visual cues.
These clowns in the Cirruses do not know how to
operate the equipment installed in the airplane (eg
autopilot - "normal procedures"). They have no
mastery of emergency procedures, either. This may
be the "wave of the future", with their plastic nosewheel
fixed-gear aircraft, but it's a lot different than how
we do things where I come from ("old school").
As as "old school" pilot I will stick to tube & fabric
taildraggers and WWII radial engine aircraft and
light tactical jets. You know, the "old school" stuff
that I know how to operate.
Re: Cirrus chutes
I have a plastic nose wheel trainer and a chute. It comes in a bag and I put it on when I do Aerobatics.akoch wrote:what about the rest of us who fly plastic nose-wheel trainers that don't have a chute or even autopilot? Go and make up a will on monday?
Re: Cirrus chutes
Unfortunately, most pilots (including probably me) will never have the chance to fly those aircraft anymore. If only the "plastic stuff" is produced, it's the "plastic stuff" we'll be flying.Colonel Sanders wrote: As as "old school" pilot I will stick to tube & fabric
taildraggers and WWII radial engine aircraft and
light tactical jets. You know, the "old school" stuff
that I know how to operate.
I'm a big fan of the clockwork cockpits, yet I had to do my IFR training in glass cockpit toys since there was no analog cockpit available anymore in my school.
Also, most people with a bag of money to spend on a new airplane would most probably choose to buy an airplane of which they are 'sure' that there will still be replacement parts produced for the next XX years. Can't really blame them for that.
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Oh good, I was really worried for a secondYou get a pass if you love Taylor Swift.
- Colonel Sanders
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Re: Cirrus chutes
You should be worried. Go get tested for STD's - she really gets around.
and a Corsair is only $3,000,000?
Oh, so that's why a P-51 is only $2,000,000most people with a bag of money to spend on a new airplane would most probably choose to buy an airplane of which they are 'sure' that there will still be replacement parts produced for the next XX years
and a Corsair is only $3,000,000?
- Shiny Side Up
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Personally I don't find anything specifically wrong with "the plastic stuff" with the exception of how pilots tend to want to fly them. Remember that stuff is produced because there is the largest market for GA airplanes for them. If you're lamenting the fact that there are only plastic planes to fly, well look in the mirror. I will admit that I'm sort of entralled by the tailwheel version of this thing though, if the purchase price wasn't so high, I think one could run some flight training based upon them. That and if my head didn't have to press up against that ill-positioned spar.digits_ wrote: Unfortunately, most pilots (including probably me) will never have the chance to fly those aircraft anymore. If only the "plastic stuff" is produced, it's the "plastic stuff" we'll be flying.
Then it begs the question that if you desired such a service, why didn't you go for it? This falls into my main theory that flight training is primarily selected by convinience of training above all other considerations. Flight schools succeed primarily based upon location, location, location, if the market warrants it and can otherwise have an exceedingly poor product.I'm a big fan of the clockwork cockpits, yet I had to do my IFR training in glass cockpit toys since there was no analog cockpit available anymore in my school.
Lowest consideration when most people purchase airplanes. Like many things people often use their heart rather than their head, and if they use their head, then their priorities are often misplaced. I'd guess that a majority of airplanes are sold based upon some shiny paint, leather seats and some flashy stuff in the dash, a few because of a percieved higher groundspeed.Also, most people with a bag of money to spend on a new airplane would most probably choose to buy an airplane of which they are 'sure' that there will still be replacement parts produced for the next XX years. Can't really blame them for that.
Re: Cirrus chutes
The spar and the reinforcement tubes are just horrible on the Sinus. Otherwise could have been a decent aircraft, but really really tight inside. My head will be banging against the tubes in turbulence, and I don't want to think about a crash scenario.
P51 mentioned by CS for a couple of mil... if it is so attractive why very few people seem to be interested in flying and owning them? I'm sure there are others like me who just don't get what's the deal there.
P51 mentioned by CS for a couple of mil... if it is so attractive why very few people seem to be interested in flying and owning them? I'm sure there are others like me who just don't get what's the deal there.
- Shiny Side Up
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Your sentiment is more common than you think, hence the proliferation of plastic airplanes with glass panels. Its also why old airplanes are disappearing, there's just not enough people to care for all the airplanes that need love. So bit by bit they fall into neglect.P51 mentioned by CS for a couple of mil... if it is so attractive why very few people seem to be interested in flying and owning them? I'm sure there are others like me who just don't get what's the deal there.
Way out in London airport in hangar number four
A lonely little biplane slept whose name was Evermore
His working days were over no more would he sail
Upon his wings above the clouds flying the royal mail
All the plastic plane pilots would look down their nose
They'd laugh and say oh I'm so glad that I don't fly one of
those
And Evermore would shake away the teardrops from his
wings
And dream of days when he again could do heroic things
Last edited by Shiny Side Up on Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cirrus chutes
[/quote]
"Emergency procedures" is what you do when something
goes wrong. You know, stuff breaks. Let's say that the
autopilot fails. Well, it's time to demonstrate the ability
to manually hold a heading and altitude in the absence
of exterior visual cues.
These clowns in the Cirruses do not know how to
operate the equipment installed in the airplane (eg
autopilot - "normal procedures"). They have no
mastery of emergency procedures, either. This may
be the "wave of the future", with their plastic nosewheel
fixed-gear aircraft, but it's a lot different than how
we do things where I come from ("old school").
[/quote]
This is what I believe has been lost. The equipment is awesome. Until something doesn't work the way it should.
"Emergency procedures" is what you do when something
goes wrong. You know, stuff breaks. Let's say that the
autopilot fails. Well, it's time to demonstrate the ability
to manually hold a heading and altitude in the absence
of exterior visual cues.
These clowns in the Cirruses do not know how to
operate the equipment installed in the airplane (eg
autopilot - "normal procedures"). They have no
mastery of emergency procedures, either. This may
be the "wave of the future", with their plastic nosewheel
fixed-gear aircraft, but it's a lot different than how
we do things where I come from ("old school").
[/quote]
This is what I believe has been lost. The equipment is awesome. Until something doesn't work the way it should.
- Colonel Sanders
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Sure, but it would appear that the owner/pilotsThe equipment is awesome
are too dumb to even turn it on and push the
"APR" button.
Re: Cirrus chutes
Not to worry! It will go it's natural way. Just like cars, as an example: there will be some preserved, prized and loved old airplanes just like some people will pay and play with an old Mercedes SL300 Gullwing or Hispana-Suiza. But most folks (I suspect CS including) would drive a reasonably recent sports bike or a Honda Civic, or Lexus - whichever's someone's fancy.Shiny Side Up wrote:Your sentiment is more common than you think, hence the proliferation of plastic airplanes with glass panels. Its also why old airplanes are disappearing, there's just not enough people to care for all the airplanes that need love. So bit by bit they fall into neglect.P51 mentioned by CS for a couple of mil... if it is so attractive why very few people seem to be interested in flying and owning them? I'm sure there are others like me who just don't get what's the deal there.
Way out in London airport in hangar number four
A lonely little biplane slept whose name was Evermore
His working days were over no more would he sail
Upon his wings above the clouds flying the royal mail
All the plastic plane pilots would look down their nose
They'd laugh and say oh I'm so glad that I don't fly one of
those
And Evermore would shake away the teardrops from his
wings
And dream of days when he again could do heroic things
- Shiny Side Up
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Re: Cirrus chutes
Airplanes aren't cars though, despite the rampant consumer need for them to act that way. There's a difference between being a pilot and a driver, though maybe for some that doesn't matter.Just like cars,
- Colonel Sanders
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Re: Cirrus chutes
I'm still sulking over the North American aircraft manufacturer'sAirplanes aren't cars though, despite the rampant consumer need for them to act that way
attempts after WWII, to make airplanes look "just like cars"
with steering wheels (instead of a stick) and heavy upholstery
IMHO a "real airplane" is controlled by a stick in your right
hand, throttle(s) in your left hand, and bare interior with
the plumbing, wiring and cables exposed, and placards.
No shag carpet on the floor. No Corinthian leather. Just
a slightly inclined seat with double five-point harnesses.
- Shiny Side Up
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Re: Cirrus chutes
I'm not so hung up on that part, wheels have their own charm in the right places, though sometimes its because they evoke a more nautical feel. This panel is a work of art!with steering wheels (instead of a stick) and heavy upholstery
Though I like the look of the ones better that have the throttle on the left.
Some airplanes I think you need a wheel to wrestle it around the sky, all the more that makes it appealing.
This on the other hand you can't even tell its an airplane.
Heart of a pilot my ass.
Re: Cirrus chutes
No, they aren't. But as everything - they are what people put in them, the emotional charge.Shiny Side Up wrote:Airplanes aren't cars though, despite the rampant consumer need for them to act that way. There's a difference between being a pilot and a driver, though maybe for some that doesn't matter.Just like cars,
It is as hard to be a good driver as to be a good pilot. Basically to be on the top takes somebodies dedicated and life-long effort, being that a top aerobatic pilot or top F1 racer.
Funny enough, and I admit it readily - it is a generational thing: to me the Cirrus cockpit looks much more like an aeroplane cockpit than the two examples above. It is so subjective. (Disclaimer - I'm not a fan of Cirrus, to say the least). When I think of what an airplane cockpit must looks like - it is a current gen A360, or gen5 fighter etc, that's the idea.
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Re: Cirrus chutes
"IMHO a "real airplane" is controlled by a stick in your right
hand, throttle(s) in your left hand, and bare interior with
the plumbing, wiring and cables exposed, and placards."
Hey, you just described my battered-but-beloved Dog Ship, the slowest bird in The Snowflakes...
hand, throttle(s) in your left hand, and bare interior with
the plumbing, wiring and cables exposed, and placards."
Hey, you just described my battered-but-beloved Dog Ship, the slowest bird in The Snowflakes...