Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

[bizjets101]

I'm hearing the order will be officially announced on Wednesday, can't wait for the fight to operate the CS100's out of the Island Airport - very cool.

Story should be in WSJ tomorrow.

[Dash-Ate]

Jets out of YTZ? The Toronto Lefties will never allow it.

[bizjets101]

Ah I remember the days when Robert Campeau was building Harbour Castle and was in and out of the Island almost everyday in his Sabreliner 60 C-GDCC !!!

Porters order was announced back in December as an undisclosed Americas customer - order is for 12 CS100's with an option for 18 CS100's ...

Whoa !!!!!

Hmmm for arguments sake, if Deluce can get Govt approval to operate out of the Island, would they then have to extend the runway ???

[oldncold]

the feds own the island as part of the port, as long as the jets are flying before the next fed election the lefties are sol/ besides over 1 million are using that place now, it was a ghost town in 2001 -o5 .That order may be only way to entice some porter capts to stay instead of direct entry400wj/encore

[cdnpilot77]

Hmmm for arguments sake, if Deluce can get Govt approval to operate out of the Island, would they then have to extend the runway ???

I don't think it's a coincidence that dirt from the tunnel dig is going out to the end of the runway.

[Gino Under]

LCY with one runway 4948 feet long and YTZ with 4000 feet. The CS100 will most likely operate off the island. If the runway needs to be lengthened, it won't be lengthened by much.
With the noise footprint the C puts down the 'greenies' and 'wingnuts' are gonna find the CNR traffic along the lakeshore noisier rolling in and out of Union Station than CSeries departures over the Eastern Gap.

Gino

[carnie]

Urban Operations
CS100 CS300
Max takeoff weight 53,060 kg (117,000 lb) 58,967 kg (130,000 lb)
Max landing weight 49,895 kg (110,000 lb) 55,111 kg (121,500 lb)
Maximum cargo payload 3,629 kg (8,000 lb) 4,853 kg (10,700 lb)
Maximum payload (total) 13,676 kg (30,150 lb) 16,284 kg (35,900 lb)
Max range 2,778 km (1,500 nmi)
Take off run at MTOW 1,219 m (3,999 ft) 1,524 m (5,000 ft)
Landing field length at MLW 1,341 m (4,400 ft) 1,448 m (4,751 ft)

[bizjets101]

Wall Street Journal

'According to those familiar with the deal, Porter's plan to use the CSeries to open new routes is based on ambitious noise reductions and performance targets from Bombardier, which is using quieter, more-efficient engines' ie; Operating out of Billy Bishop!!! Whoa . . .

[Deltawidget]

So if the take off run under the urban scenario is 3,999 ft, what field length would be required to accomdate that? an additional 1000 feet?

seems like a lot of investment is required to accomdate such a niche product. I wonder what markets they see as atteactive enough to warrant the additional type in their fleet? A 100 seat aircraft out of ytz, to....

[Deltawidget]

If this order sees the C series go to their other bases, i wonder what new markets theyre going after which cant be served by the Q..

[Gino Under]

The Q400 is approx. $30 million versus CSeries approx. $50 million.
The Q is a 27,000 ft performer while the C is a 41,000 ft performer making daily LAX flights or YVR flights quite comfortable and well within range capabilities. KIAH, KDFW, KPHX...KLAS, KATL, KMIA...lots of options for the C. YHZ-LAX. Good competition for WJ or AC. Also a great answer for AC with its union workforce to compete with LCCs.
I think a 4000 ft TORA would be a balanced field for both.
We'll see.

Gino Under

[55+]

Hmmm......... interesting.

ILS/DME RWY 26 YTZ G/P is 4.8 deg, thats 510ft/nm or 1020 FPM based on 120kts which is the max for the current CAT B restriction for that IAP on to the 3988ft rwy. Good on the "C" series for doing that.

[Gino Under]

* Porter seen announcing CSeries order Wednesday

* Operating jets from Porter's Toronto base poses problems

* Porter order could create third cross-Canada carrier

By Susan Taylor

TORONTO, April 9 (Reuters) - Canadian regional carrier Porter Airlines is expected to announce an order for 12 of Bombardier Inc's new CSeries jets on Wednesday, a likely challenge to restrictions at its Toronto Island airport base.

The privately held airline, which says it will announce "expansion plans" at a morning press conference, could create a third cross-country carrier with the deal, ratcheting up competition for Canada's No. 1 and 2 airlines, Air Canada and WestJet Airlines Ltd.

Porter is expected to announce a firm order for 12 of Bombardier's CS100 jets, with options for another 18 of the 110-seat aircraft, according to The Wall Street Journal, which cited unnamed sources.

Porter Airlines did not respond to requests for comment, and Bombardier spokesman Marc Duchesne said the Montreal-based company would not comment on "industry speculation."

Bombardier in December announced a firm order to an "unidentified customer" for 12 CSeries worth $870 million at list prices, with options for another 18 aircraft that would swell the deal value to $2.08 billion.

Buying CSeries jets would provide Porter with opportunity for longer flights and route expansion. But it also raises questions about its ability to operate the CSeries from Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (BBTCA).

Under an airport agreement between the city of Toronto, government of Canada and Toronto Harbour Commission, a rule bans the operation of jet-powered aircraft, which would include the CSeries.

There is speculation that Porter may lobby to have the airport rules changed, arguing that the "noise footprint" from the CSeries is not dissimilar to that of the 70-seat Q400 turboprop planes it currently flies.

Bombardier and engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney promise a "low noise footprint and just 70 decibels approaching the airport," wrote Scott Hamilton, an aviation analyst with Leeham Co, noting that the airport is "highly noise sensitive."

Seven-year-old Porter currently flies a fleet of 26 Q400 propeller planes to more than a dozen cities in eastern Canada and the United States, with routes restricted by the plane's range of approximately 1,000 miles.

The CS100 has a range of some 3,066 miles, but that distance can be sharply reduced by runway length.

"We suspect that any move to open up the BBTCA to jets will be met with fierce opposition so there is no guarantee that the airline will be allowed to operate the CS100 from its main hub," said National Bank Financial analyst Cameron Doerksen in a note.

If Porter plans to fly the CSeries from another airport that does not connect to its Toronto Island base, its advantages over Air Canada and WestJet would be "limited at best," Doerksen added.

"Indeed, the history of airlines in Canada attempting to grow from regional players into national players is not positive," he wrote.

Porter Chief Executive Robert Deluce has hinted in the past that his airline could expand into Western Canada, a strategy that would invite a tough competitive response from Air Canada and WestJet, Doerksen wrote.

The island airport's runways could pose a further problem. While the longest runway is approximately 4,000 feet, matching the CSeries requirement for takeoff, the jet requires 4,400 feet for landing, Bombardier said.

That means the airport would require a "significant rework" for the planes to operate, RBC Capital Markets analyst Walter Spracklin said in a note.

"Porter could also be looking to deploy the CSeries from alternate airports, including Montreal, to destinations in the U.S. and significantly expand its footprint on those routes," he wrote.

[Rudy]

They might be running them out of Pearson.

[Legacy]

Give it up RD. neither AC or WJ is goung to buy Porter. You can cancel your fake order now.

[Dash-Ate]

Email the leftist councillor tell him this:

councillor_vaughan@toronto.ca

[Dash-Ate]

Some say the additional Fokker 100 type killed Jetsgo...if they'd just stuck to their core type & routes.
Will history repeat here?

[Jack Klumpus]

Jetsgo was doing fantastic until the F100 ...

It was those free F100s that ruined the otherwise financialy stable airline

[peeelot]

Me thinks that they will have to extend the runway to at least 6000 - 7000 feet. In winter time I know enough about flying a jet that if you land on a runway with 1/8 inch of snow and landing distance is 4000 feet you are going to need at least 6000 ft. So not just porter but anyone who wants to operate an airliner out of YTZ is going to need at east 6000 feet. I don't know if they will be able to extend the runway that long and still have a slope on the ILS a jet can handle. I haven't seen the #'s on the C but That's just my 2 cents.

[Chaxterium]

Watching the presser right now. They're going to operate out of YTZ but their order is conditional upon changes in the Tripartite Agreement. They're going to ask for some changes in the Tripartite Agreement to allow for jets to be flown into and out of YTZ and to extend the runway. They're looking for an extra 550ft on both ends.

Should be interesting.

[bizjets101]

As Jon Ostrower says; The Racoon is out of the bag . . .


Porter CS100 mockup available for viewing at YTZ for month of April

[RatherBeFlying]

Technically, I'd rather extend the runway to the West. Any extension to the East will be problematic to harbor traffic and might call for a steeper GP.

Politically -- you gotta be kidding -- DeLuce should just thank his lucky stars that Mandel is far, far away.

[flyincanuck]

Some say the additional Fokker 100 type killed Jetsgo...if they'd just stuck to their core type & routes.
Will history repeat here?

Ehh, no. Michel Leblanc killed JetsGo, along with his other 6 failed airlines.

[Chaxterium]

No surprise here but already some opposition to the announcement.

http://tinyurl.com/d7bxqd9

“The likelihood of the city council agreeing to put a 500-foot extension of the runway into Lake Ontario right where our drinking water is drawn from for the downtown core and putting jets on that tarmac and then allowing extra flights and noise in an airport that can barely handle its extra capacity is just not in the cards,” Mr. Vaughan said.

[justwork]

The orders are placed, the plan is in motion. There are a lot of naysayers, and there will be more - the raccoon is tough. The truth is this is going to be a battle, and no one knows what's going to happen. Good luck Porter.
http://www.porterplans.com