Lion Air B737 Bali

[Double Wasp]

http://avherald.com/h?article=460aeabb&opt=0

Initial reports are everyone made it off, these guys crash better than most.

[dashx]

Writing off a brand new 737-800 with no casualties. Yes I guess you could say they crash better than most..........






That looks like an expensive piece of tail...............................

[jpilot77]

Good job!

[Magnetron]

Look out for ads that say:

"Barely used 737-800 parts..."

Glad everyone was okay though...whether pilot error, faulty equipment, or otherwise.

[Sasquash]

should make this a ''caption contest''

Is that how you start a wet lease???

[Inverted2]

It's now a Sea Lion!

[altiplano]

I like how in the comments on the article some guys get all technical and defensive... "it's not a crash, only an incident"... either way I expect we'll be seeing Indonesian carriers remaining on the black list despite Lion Air's recent Airbus and Boeing orders and lobbying to get off...

[willow burner]

Anybody have a realistic guess as to how this happened? Their metars seem a bit different than ours, but I dont see anything suggesting micro bursts or the like....and they came down way way short!

[slowstream]

I like how in the comments on the article some guys get all technical and defensive... "it's not a crash, only an incident"... either way I expect we'll be seeing Indonesian carriers remaining on the black list despite Lion Air's recent Airbus and Boeing orders and lobbying to get off...

altiplano,

Sorry but technically he's correct, no loss of life or serious injury by anyone equates as a incident and absurdly its not an accident. I think thats splitting hairs though.

I found it interesting that the British media said that the crew overshot the runway and ended up in the water, but clearly from the photos they never even made it to the runway.

Glad to hear that everyone survived and is okay.

I am guessing that new smell is gone now.

[altiplano]

Yeah now that I look at the picture I see what you mean... I guess we really should expect more if it's gonna be called a crash!?

[linecrew]

So to be clear the incident was that the plane accidentally crashed into the water and broke in half.

[JMACK]

I was very surprised too thought it would have been a high and behind Ref +++

VOR 09 in Denpasar or the visual 09....... no glide slope like on the other end. Brand new jet 2 weeks on line.

Somebody knows or will when the data gets crunched.

Will be waiting to read that one.

J

This guy pulled in beside me late Dec 2012 WADD beautiful new B737-900 huge beastie I think they are as long as a 707.

[JigglyBus]

Sorry but technically he's correct, no loss of life or serious injury by anyone equates as a incident and absurdly its not an accident.

What? As per whose definition? It's certainly an accident according to ICAO, TSB, NTSB, TC, and FAA.

Do you guys ever google stuff? It's pretty handy at preventing foot-in-mouth disease.

[GyvAir]

An "incident"? Seriously? Try doing damage to your car proportional to what that aircraft has and then telling your insurance company that you weren't involved in an accident, as nobody was killed or injured.

I know Bali isn't in the USA, but here's the NTSB's definitions of accident and incident:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-t ... c830-2.xml

"Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein."

"Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations."

[sky's the limit]

Sully just had to try it one more time eh...?

[Magnetron]

Yeah no need to be sorry. It's an accident.

Any damage to persons or property right?

But anyway the point is...somebody's gonna get a hurt real bad from this.

[grimey]

If you overshoot the runway, ok, maybe it's an incident if the plane gets repaired. They broke the plane in half, playing word games with this is just stupid.

I guess Air France at YYZ was just an incident too, nobody got killed.

What is amazing though is how many large aircraft Lion has written off in accidents, and how few of them were fatal. That seems more like good luck than good management though.

[pelmet]

DON'T SINK, DON'T SINK

[PilotDAR]

should make this a ''caption contest'

PF: ".... yeah, when the Costa Concordia ran aground, the Captain was getting just a little closer look at shore ... like this...."

[tbaylx]

Just another day of ops normal at Lion Air.

With the expansion of airlines unwilling or unable to attract experienced crews, the proliferation of Pay to Fly schemes and airlines like LionAir ordering hundreds of aircraft, you're going to see more and more of these accidents (and yeah a hull loss is an accident by anyone's standards), especially in this part of the world. I'll reserve judgement on this one until more details come out, but given their history my first thought was...wow another unstable approach and a wrecked aircraft...big surprise.

May not be the case here, but i'm sure curious how a brand new 737 in good weather can manage to not even make the airport barring a complete loss of power. Boeing should just permanently station an incident response team over there.

[Hozer]

Maybe they thought it would make a great artificial reef, a little shallow for snorkeling though!

[Colonel Sanders]

not even make the airport

Happened last year at Hamilton.

[sidestick stirrer]

You referring that T-bag that undershot?
Do those old, single-spool, centrifugal-compressor engines have a long spool-up time?
As the bypass ratio of twin-spool turbine engines increased in the mid-Sixties, so did the spool up times.
This led to some exciting moments in airliners equipped with these engines, most notably the DC-9 and 727. Specs during our maintenance ground runs allowed a maximum of eight(or was it eleven?) seconds delay during the slam acceleration test, the time between being stabilized at idle until being stabilized at full thrust.
Might not seem like very long but-with the glideslope disappearing off the top, a wing area that counted on lots of thrust at approach speeds and the sink rate rapidly increasing- it was an eternity.
The answer was a minimum-power setting at low altitudes, this ensured the compressor-bleed valves were already closed and the engine was at an rpm that greatly reduced the spool up time while barely increasing the thrust being produced, a win-win situation.
Later generations of these engines introduced an automatic "approach idle" feature, where the FADEC would sense the initial extension of high-lift devices and increase the engine rpms.
And is the throttle-to-power ratio in the old engines more linear than it is now with the newer engines?
Nowadays, moving the throttles half the way to full power barely gets enough oomph to begin taxiing...

[sidestick stirrer]

DON'T SINK, DON'T SINK

Is that what it announces?

All these years, I thought it was an ESL voice commanding,"DON't THINK, DON'T THINK"

[slowstream]

An "incident"? Seriously? Try doing damage to your car proportional to what that aircraft has and then telling your insurance company that you weren't involved in an accident, as nobody was killed or injured.

I know Bali isn't in the USA, but here's the NTSB's definitions of accident and incident:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-t ... c830-2.xml

"Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein."

"Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations."

GyvAir,

First be careful google is NOT always a friend (lol)

I think its a little pointless myself, but not every country will classify the two terms the same way. Back in the day in Canada my definition was accurate. An incident was when damage was done to property or an aircraft, an accident was when there was serious damage/injury or death involved with the operation of an aircraft and like I said not every country will classify them the same way. My comment was with regard comments made by the person on the part of Lion trying to do damage control, laughingly.

As far as I am concerned its a freaking accident, or at least thats what the crew will be looking at management and the investigation board with heads hung low saying Oops it was a accident (lol).