Question

[Old fella]

What is it like doing your first operational trip as Captain after you went through all the training/evaluation/line indoc supervisory and the like and you have an F/O you don't know and met for the first time and a shit load of passengers behind.............

Also if you are a new minted Captain do they assign a new F/O with you or is everybody considered qualified and equal so blast off..............

[flatface]

deleted

[Old fella]

Qualified is qualified.

Scenario.......you need heart surgery, you can select a surgeon who will be doing this operation for the first time on his own, or you can select the surgeon who has done this operation 1000 times. Both are qualified equally?

I rest my case.

Point noted on "Qualified is Qualified" as it pertains to "up-front" . As for heart surgery commentary, let me say this(as I have two family in the medical profession and have been there for a long time) and so call "equally qualified" is very frightening. Unlike airline flying(hence the questions), I do have an inside track on things medical and I always hear "this one is very good but so and so I wouldn't let remove a pimple from my arse let alone cut me open" or " I wouldn't let so and so put our cat under for minor operation, way too many issues with this person........ " Foreign medical qualifications is the real scary part.

If I scared you, then you can scare me with your next landing

[fish4life]

I think there is some sort of rule somewhere in transport where a new cpt on type can't fly with another new FO on type it's not a ton of hours and line in doc might take care of it but I think it's something like 100 or 50 hours

[Aeros]

I think there is some sort of rule somewhere in transport where a new cpt on type can't fly with another new FO on type it's not a ton of hours and line in doc might take care of it but I think it's something like 100 or 50 hours

You're thinking of 725.108 - Crew Pairing:

(1) Crew pairing restrictions establish minimum experience requirements for a flight crew.

(2) Crew pairing restrictions apply when any of the following situations apply to either the pilot-in-command or the second-in-command when at the employ of an air operator:

(a) initial appointment to pilot-in-command or second-in-command;

(b) the first upgrade from second-in-command to pilot-in-command on any aeroplane type except the same aeroplane type;

(c) the first transition from a reciprocating-powered aeroplane to a turbo-prop or turbo-jet powered aeroplane;

(d) the first transition from a turbo-prop-powered aeroplane to a turbo-jet-powered aeroplane;

(e) the first transition to an aeroplane whose control systems use a technology or present information in a manner that differs significantly in access, interpretation, or usage from that with which the pilot is familiar;

(f) upon completion of training on a second aeroplane type which is not covered by a common type rating, regardless of previous experience, when the pilot will be flying both types of aeroplanes in service; or

(g) the transition to an aeroplane type on which the crew member has no previous experience.

(3) When crew pairing restrictions apply, they come into effect after completion of the Pilot Proficiency Check in the new position or new type, and remain in effect until the completion of the consolidation period for this flight crew member. (See subsection 725.106(7) for consolidation period)

(4) When, after completion of the line indoctrination, crew pairing restrictions apply to one of the flight crew members, the other flight crew member shall meet the following requirements:

(a) has completed the consolidation period; or

(b) for the purpose of a transition period from previous regulation to the new Canadian Aviation Regulations, has gained experience in position on the aeroplane type prior to the introduction of consolidation requirements.

(5) When, after completion of their individual line indoctrination, crew pairing restrictions apply to the pilot-in-command and to the second-in-command, a training pilot who meets the requirements of subsection 725.124(4) shall occupy the jump seat.

(6) Hours applying to crew pairing restrictions are valid for line indoctrination and the consolidation period referred to in Section 725.106.

725.106

(7) Consolidation Period (refers to subsection 705.106(4) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations)

(a) The consolidation period shall take place in accordance with the time limits from the following sliding scale and shall begin upon successful completion of an initial Pilot Proficiency Check on each aeroplane type:
(amended 2000/06/01; previous version)

(i) 50 hours in 60 days;

(ii) 75 hours in 90 days; or

(iii) 100 hours in 120 days.

In a nutshell, if the crew pairing restriction outlined in 725.108 apply two options exist -- either ensure that the other crew member has completed consolidation or fly with a training pilot in the jumpseat.

[Stu Pidasso]

"Green on Green," is not monitored. A brand spanking new Skipper can (and does) fly with brand new F/O's.

[El Comat]

At WJ we don't allow "green on green". Capt or F/O must have 300 hours in their seat to fly with a newbie in the other seat. This a company thing, seems to be stricter than the CARs.

EC

[wingnut250]

Not sure if Stu works for AC, but it is monitored and green on green is not allowed. If it does slip by (with the turn over in crewsked it's possible) it's still the responsiblity of the new Captain to make sure the FO is not green too. The restriction about new Captains flying with FO's is laid out in the FOM (flight ops manual).

[TheStig]

"Green on Green," is not monitored. A brand spanking new Skipper can (and does) fly with brand new F/O's.

Sorry, this is not true. I don't have time to look up the specifics but there are a number of restrictions beyond the CAR's in the Flight Operations Manual (section 2.4) for newly upgraded Captains. Off the top of my head there are restrictions for both Captains and FO's who have not completed their aircraft 'Consolidation' to prevent pilots who haven't completed their consolidations from flying together. I also believe there are some cross wind restrictions as well. The consolidation restrictions are varied based on a pilots previous experience at AC (prior experience on type, previous Captains experience ect).

[Stu Pidasso]

Sorry back to you Stig, but it is true. What I said was; "not monitored," the same is true for the low vis (Category Approaches,) the responsibility is on the Captain.

It will be unavoidable at rouge.

[TheStig]

Sorry back to you Stig, but it is true. What I said was; "not monitored," the same is true for the low vis (Category Approaches,) the responsibility is on the Captain.

It will be unavoidable at rouge.

You're right, it isn't monitored, much like our contract crewsked is blissfully ignorant of the FOM. I simply wanted to point out that there are restrictions on 'green on green' flying at Air Canada. As you also know, ignore the FOM rules at your own peril.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how this will be dealt with at rouge, could be a lot of displacements for the first group of FO's, however, rouge will have a separate FOM and we'll have to see what it outlines.