Renewal IFR after 10 yrs. need some advice.

[CDVPILOT74]

I am getting back in to aviation after 10 yrs. of being out. I have renewed my CAT 1 Medical and got checked out on a 172 just to get flying again. I intend to find a pilot job, maybe F.O. on a King air or something like that. I held a MIFR and instructor rating and have 600TT. There are a lot more jobs now than there were 10-15 yrs. ago it seems. Due to family circumstances etc. I had to leave flying and go make some money in construction. After all this time I still want to get back to flying, maybe even more than before. I see the long term career benefits of this over construction work, especially the physical demand.
So, I know I need to write the INRAT and I plan on taking the Aero Course to help with that. I wonder if the 3 day course will be enough to get me up to speed. I have heard from a few people that it will suffice. What's after that? 15 hrs. in the redbird and then a flight test? Or can I go cheap and practice on MS Flight sim before going in the bird? This was one person's suggestion.
I also intend to do this all as quickly as possible. I don't see the point in dragging it out . I live in the London On. area and realize that a relocation may be necessary due to lack of aviation jobs around SWO. I don't wish to instruct.
Any advice?

[Beefitarian]

I personally think simulators are only good for instrument training. I have flown my MS flight sim 2000 with a decent quality yoke. I was impressed that it seemed real enough that when I dropped the flap I instinctively reached for the trim wheel.

The problem for me was next time I went flying areal plane I had trouble with landings.

I've flown a couple of red bird "motion" simulators, I thought this is just like the MS one with better seat, switches and rudder pedals. The motion did not seem great, I had to look at the ball to notice I should have been using those pedals. I guess I'm weird, if I don't feel yaw on the seat it does not seem like flying.

I won't lie, the least expensive place you can find to fly a real plane with will seem obscenely expensive. It will also seem worth it.

[Colonel Sanders]

A little four cylinder training twin, with instructor
and taxes, is probably going to run you around
six and a half bucks per minute. By the time you
run through the pages and pages of FTU checklist
for runup and nav radio test & config, that's around
15 minutes or $100. Before you even take off

Keep in mind that ground running time doesn't
count towards the maintenance costs, and you're
burning perhaps 4 gph total, both sides, so the
airplane actually costs one gallon (15 min) or
around 6 bucks.

Nice margin, there.

[Beefitarian]

$400 per hour? It's half that price here for dual.

Edit: Disregard, I read it as a single.

[Colonel Sanders]

If you can get a twin for $200/hr including
instructor and taxes, keep on enjoying the
1980's!

Back here in the People's Republic of Ontario:

http://www.ofc.ca/category/tags/rates

Duchess is $334/hr dual, and with HST that's
$385. You can expect to spend plenty of time
on the ground waiting in line, and flying to and
from the practice area. Each flight will cost $500.

[Beefitarian]

Nope, I missed "twin" there. Carry on.

[Cessna driver]

If you can get a twin for $200/hr including
instructor and taxes, keep on enjoying the
1980's!

Back here in the People's Republic of Ontario:

http://www.ofc.ca/category/tags/rates

Duchess is $334/hr dual, and with HST that's
$385. You can expect to spend plenty of time
on the ground waiting in line, and flying to and
from the practice area. Each flight will cost $500.

Our twin (da42, and if it ever flies again, POS hangar queen) goes for 342/hour wet, no instructor

[Beefitarian]

Sorry, I probably should have stayed out of this one. MS Flight sim should be a pretty good way to get ready for procedure stuff in the RedBird.

Where are the guys that have done this to straighten the conversation out?

[Colonel Sanders]

342/hour wet, no instructor

FTU will charge you probably $60/hr for the
instructor (and probably charge the instructor
$20/hr for the multi PIC time).

So, you're back at $400/hr. Plus taxes. Again,
around $7 per minute.

[CDVPILOT74]

I know it costs a bunch to rent a twin. I just need to know if I'm on the right track for training. Since it has been so long, the ride is considered to be an initial. I was told 2 different things. 1- it must be done in a real airplane. 2- It can be done in the redbird start to finish including the ride. I would chose the redbird and then at least I would have a current MIFR without a major expense. If I ha d the money I would do it in a twin.
I also want to hear from other pilots who have gone through this before. I know they're out there.

[Beefitarian]

Sorry again CDV.

I read you wanted to get back into aviation then zoned out and skimmed some parts.

I came back after just around five years but don't have aspirations to get a CPL. I see you already got checked out so what I was blabbing about, you already did.

Funny how I ended up working and buying a bunch of stuff I don't care about and now wish I just lived in a trailer and concentrated all that money on flying and maybe the motorcycle I rarely use.

Hope you get flying as much as you can. Have you phoned Transport? Last time I did that I asked a bunch of questions the lady seemed helpfull and did not even ask my name so it was fairly anonymous.

Welcome to the forum.

[CDVPILOT74]

I should call transport. Yeah I hear you about the trailer. I would live in a camper ( preferably on Vancouver Island) and fly, fly, fly. I have spent a lot on real estate investing but the only way to benefit from it at this point is to sell the family farm and move up north or wherever to get a low time flying job. I'm not sure how that will all work out yet seeing as I have a wife and 3 grown kids to consider.
The main point is to get the IFR and see where it goes from there. It is going to be somewhat challenging to re-learn all the IFR stuff.

[Beefitarian]

I'm pretty sure the west coast is always a tough place to get a job. I was talking to a guy in Naniamo eight years ago and he said it was because, "Everyone wants to work I paradise."

I have two small kids and my wife likes to live here.

[costermonger]

I know it costs a bunch to rent a twin. I just need to know if I'm on the right track for training. Since it has been so long, the ride is considered to be an initial. I was told 2 different things. 1- it must be done in a real airplane. 2- It can be done in the redbird start to finish including the ride. I would chose the redbird and then at least I would have a current MIFR without a major expense. If I ha d the money I would do it in a twin.

Sorry mate. From the Flight Test Guide:

If the Instrument Rating has been expired for more than 24 months, the requirements for admission to an initial flight test must be met.

AEROPLANE AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS
The initial flight test for the Instrument Rating may be conducted in an aeroplane or in a full-flight simulator (FFS) meeting the requirements stated in this section. The flight test for the renewal of the Instrument Rating may be conducted in an aeroplane, in a full-flight simulator or in a flight training device (FTD) meeting the requirements stated in this section.

You're doing an initial, and you can't do an initial in a redbird. You need a plane. I'd be leery of whatever school told you otherwise.

[Beefitarian]

He already met the time requirements, so he only needs to do the test in a real plane, correct?
In theory he could prep with a red bird and or personal computer sim.

[costermonger]

He already met the time requirements, so he only needs to do the test in a real plane, correct?
In theory he could prep with a red bird and or personal computer sim.

Yes. No need for any more hours in the plane than necessary to pass the test.

[Colonel Sanders]

It is going to be somewhat challenging to re-learn all the IFR stuff

It's changed. It used to be, TC hammered the NDB
approaches and holds and didn't like the GPS or
autopilot being turned on.

Now, no one cares about the ADF, and everything
is done on the IFR GPS, which substitutes for DME
and every "rnav" approach is pretty much the same.
Everything is done on the autopilot now.

There are plenty of questions about GPS on the INRAT
(which you have to re-write) - you should know about
the two TSO's (original and WAAS) and RAIM. Use of
the GPS alternate, etc.

The stupid white AIP is gone. It's replaced with the online
AIM. Download it from here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca- ... -1_ENG.pdf

Read all of the RAC IFR sections, naturally. Do not
skip over COM 3.0 esp 3.15 which is all GPS. Once
you're up to speed on that crap, get yourself a CAP
GEN (no more CAP EAST/WEST) and a LO chart.

Read through the CAP GEN and learn about alternate
minima, cold temp correction, etc.

Read the legend on the LO chart and make certain
you can read it.

[Skyhunter]

Mine was expired over 24 months, rewrote INRAT and did the ride in a redbird.... No issues what so ever! Call cornwall, they will set you up with what ever training you need and do the ride right there. Mine cost under 1000 bucks all in. A little more experienced than you though, but still very doable. What ever FO job you get you will probably need a PPC and training, so don't worry it isn't in a real plane as what ever plane you do it in will very different anyway.

[CDVPILOT74]

Thanks for all the info guys. I did call transport in Hamilton and they wouldn't say which simulators are approved only there will be a Transport Canada approved label somewhere on the machine and this would qualify it for a flight test. I am still confused.
I started reading the RAC in the AIM which someone gave to me. At the time when I first got the multi IFR I never thought it would expire but it seems to me a bit useless for a low time student pilot to get a MIFR since its almost impossible for low time pilots to get hired on a twin with no time. Having said that... And sometimes I could still kick myself... I was actually offered a job on an Aztec, single pilot, from a grass strip north of Trenton. I had to turn it down at the time. Maybe that was in my best interest. That's a handful for a young, low timer!

[johnnymax]

Call Sharon at Transport in Hamilton- she knows all about it. Yours is a renewal- you have been expired more than 24 months so you will have to write the INRAT, but it can be done in a Redbird, I've been through it before. Sharon will confirm for you!

[Colonel Sanders]

a job on an Aztec

Too bad you couldn't take it. Nice starter twin.
Big engines, fat wing, carries anything. As long
as both engines are turning, it's pretty docile.

I really hated the hydraulics in it, though.