Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots winter 2012-2013

[Johnny767]

Great summary, GRK. The glory days of Cathay are long gone, it has turned into one of the worse jobs in the industry.

Gilles, every Pilot in Canada owes you a debt of gratitude for taking on this fight. You are doing an admiral job, thank-you.

Canadian Pilots are in demand in the "rice bowl" and the "sandpit" out of desperation. There are plenty of qualified Pilots in Canada to fill these jobs. Scumbag operators are too cheap to pay for training and import trained (endorsed) Pilots. Every other operator pays to train their own Pilots, but the bottom feeders have found a loop hole to crawl into.

[CD]

Scumbag operators are too cheap to pay for training and import trained (endorsed) Pilots. Every other operator pays to train their own Pilots, but the bottom feeders have found a loop hole to crawl into.

Well gee, I never thought to describe WestJet like that before... Who knew?

WestJet wetlease - CTA Decision 471-A-2012

[Johnny767]

If the shoe fits..... !

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The Sunwing "permanent" fleet now stands at 13 aircraft. Two aircraft that had arrived as temporary additional aircraft last winter stayed on as permanent Suwing aircraft after the winter.

D-ATUH came from TUIfly in Dec 2012 and became C-FYUH. That aircraft is back in Europe, but now as a Sunwing Wet-Lease to Thomson.

TUIfly and Thomson both belong to TUI. Suwing belong at 49% to TUI. So TUIfly passes along a 737 to Sunwing for the winter and now this same aircraft is a Sunwing wet-lease to Thomson.

Travel Service did the same with two aircraft, OK-TVH became C-GVVH and OK-TVJ became C-FTAH.

They arrived in Canada last fall as "dry-leases" from Travel Service to Sunwing. In May, these same two aircraft went back to Prague, but maintained their Canadian registration and are now flying in Europe as Sunwing wet-leases to Travel Service.

Why this registration musical chair ? It's not because TUIfly and Travel Service no longer had use for these aircraft. This little scheme covers two purposes.

1) To increase the number of Sunwing pilots in Europe in order to get more reciprocity pilots from CIC next winter.
2) To allow Canadian pilots to by-pass the European restriction on foreign licensed pilots. The Europeans no longer allow foreign licensed pilots to fly European registered aircraft, so in order for Sunwing to send any pilots to Europe, the pilots have to go as wet-lease pilots of Canadian Registered aircraft, which is allowed. So TUI and Travel Service each provided Sunwing with extra aircraft so they could increase the number of pilots they sent to Europe.

The most vexing aspect of all this, is that Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs), just like the European Regulations (EASA), do not allow foreign licensed pilots to fly revenue flights on locally registered aircraft. But unlike the European Aviation authorities who protect their own, Transport Canada does just the opposite by violating the CARs to accomodate the foreigners. Transport Canada has been illegally providing the foreign licensed pilots with FLVCs to fly Canadian Registered aircraft and continue to do so while claiming its all legal.

Someday someone will get to the bottom of it all and discover the why. For now I just have questions......

[FICU]

Sunwing is nothing more than a vehicle for a European company(TUI) to profit from the healthy Canadian winter holiday market during their off season. TUI is in control of the Canadian operation from what I have heard from a few senior SW employees.

[monkey]

TUI owns 49% of sunwing of course it is trying to make money through them, isn't that what business is about? TUI also injected millions into sunwings operation. Its not like sunwing has been giving all the money to TUI, google and see what they have been purchasing to grow the business.

[FICU]

TUI owns 49% of sunwing of course it is trying to make money through them, isn't that what business is about? TUI also injected millions into sunwings operation. Its not like sunwing has been giving all the money to TUI, google and see what they have been purchasing to grow the business.

Sunwing is TUI under a different name and with the minimum amount of Canadian ownership in order to operate as a Canadian company. Over in Europe Sunwing is considered TUI's Canadian division. It's a great scheme.

[monkey]

Last I checked when transat tried that argument they lost. It's not all a big conspiracy, it is possible for a new airline to do well.

[FICU]

Last I checked when transat tried that argument they lost. It's not all a big conspiracy, it is possible for a new airline to do well.

Not saying it's a conspiracy... it's a great scheme.

Where would Sunwing be and how well would they be doing without TUI's perceived 49%?

[OPEC6-Heavy]

FICU,
Sunwing was making money before TUI and is making money with TUI. TUI co-operation just makes it more efficient with regards to synergies. Sunwing is run as a totally separate Canadian company, most if not all major decisions are made in YYZ. It's not as controlling as you may think. TUI is smart, they leave a company that has a 10 year track record of making profits in Canada alone. They have the worlds largest Tour company to worry about, not micro managing a Canadian joint venture.

[FICU]

Thanks for painting such a rosy picture of the situation 6-Heavy but my sources say otherwise.

How many Canadian aircraft did Sunwing operate in 2008 and how many wet/dry leased foreign aircraft came over?

How many foreign pilots flew Sunwing C-registered machines in 2008?

Gilles? You must have an idea.

[OPEC6-Heavy]

FICU,
Your welcome.
Your so called sources (you mean friends that happen to work at SWG) obviously don't have the whole picture and may not know all aspects of the operation. The "Rosy" picture is exactly what you get with regards to the dynamic between the two companies. Your reference to 2008 and the amount of foreign crews is purely a function of expansion, this was naturally increased in this time period because of the merger but was also done using non TUI assets. Sunwing would have expanded with or without TUI using other aircraft partners, so I'm not sure what point your trying to get across? Gilles has cut and paste your question about aircraft in the fleet about 600 times, not with total accuracy but you'll get the picture. It's somewhere on this web site.

[Major Cong]

TUIfly and Tomson both belong to TUI

Just a small point Gilles, it's Thomson not Tomson thanks

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Corrected, thank you. In the early days I used to write Thompson. I don't know why I have such trouble with this name.....

[Sasquash]

hey, don't feel bad about it. Being originally from Quebec City, I still have problem with da ''H''s here and there!!!

[ea306]

Corrected, thank you. In the early days I used to write Thompson. I don't know why I have such trouble with this name.....

Yep. It's a dry Thomson. Without the Pee in it.
Sometimes a little humour helps one remember.....lol

[BobbyBrown]

Hello everyone,

I thought I'd resurrect this topic as I am one of the 'foreign' pilots out there currently looking to bid for a couple of months in Canada.

I'm looking for a bit of insight into the flying / working patterns of Sunwing as I'm going to try and bring my family over and want to know whether this is feasible. Of course if you want me to answer any questions on the reciprocal agreements we (TUI Uk) have with Canada I will try my best.

My base would be Ottawa if this helps.
Thanks

[Travellingpilot]

Hi, I might have thought this question would have been better on the BALPA or PPRUNE website. If this goes ahead you won't be working for Sunwing. The operation will be run from the UK. It will be just like flying for Thomson (with a few changes) except you will have a Canadian base. I believe many of the details you require are also available via the company and there are quite a few Thomson pilots who can relate their experiences.