Ex: 22

[photofly]

but frequently
in a twin, when the gear doesn't come down, pilots
like to feather both engines before touchdown

You missed the bit where they use the starter to rotate the prop so the odd blade is straight up instead of straight down.

[Shiny Side Up]

Well since I have done 3 Instructor Ratings, One Aerobatic Instructor rating and 2 PPL's in the last 3 years I think I am familiar with the flight test guides and what is tested.

I figured that, but I also think its interesting how the emphasis on the exercise has changed over the years.

There are only a few things you can do from inside the airplane to get a failed engine going again.

To add to your list I've also seen a loss of power when somehow the primer came out. Not a full failure, but enough to cause the problem to a novice pilot, fortunately this one happened on the ground with an uneventful aborted take off. I suspect that it wasn't correctly checked locked in, somehow.

ROTAX FTW! I love how those engines sound like somebody has thrown a wrench into them when they stop.

I know! I really don't like those things, they just don't sound right. Sound more like a coffee grinder than an engine.

[Beefitarian]

You think the Rotax engines sound funny? Wait until I win the powerball and build electric powered WWI era trainer replicas.

[mcrit]

As for shutting the engine off, I don't think it is necessarily dangerous, it's just that the risks don't justify the rewards in a training environment.

+1

This falls into the category of, "Things I would not do myself, but wouldn't summarily execute others for."

Instead the pilot mindlessly rattles off a few things so he can get on with the "important" part of the excercise doing the PFl procedure.

Devils Advocate: If you lose the engine at low altitude, just fly the plane. Checks should be appropriate to the situation. I've had instructor candidates stick their heads way deep in the cockpit when I gave them a simulated engine failure on climb out; that's much worse than glossing over a cause check.

I don't think it's much worse than tossing a fuel sample on the seat and lighting it up to train students how to work the fire extinguisher.

Well, it would be easy to evaluate the students effectiveness.

PS It's actually not very easy to stop the (fixed
pitch) prop on a light trainer. Not sure how many
of the experts here on the subject have actually
done it, but the times I did, it wasn't easy.

Did that once in my younger years, can attest to what Hedley says.

[Beefitarian]

Either you trust those students enough I don't think you need further "evaluation" or you believe you have really good fire insurance.

Your avatar is not getting along with my browser, it's a box with a ? In it.

[mcrit]

Either you trust those students enough I don't think you need further "evaluation" or you believe you have really good fire insurance.

Who said anything about using my airplane?

Your avatar is not getting along with my browser, it's a box with a ? In it.

Yeah, it's been muddled for a while now. I've been to busy/apathetic/whatever to deal with it.

[teh1pilot]

I think this exercise is completely "roboticised". The instructor is so focused on completing all the items that would make the TC examiner "happy" and completely drowns a student in all of the "nice to know" details. Even worse, instructors make it a very step by step(checklist) kind of exercise. I'm a huge fan of muscle memory, and like any good instructor should be doing, they should be transitioning a student from known to unknown. Lost an engine? set the plane up for best glide by setting the air-picture you've seen(all so many times before) on the windscreen and trim. Look for a good field, point the nose to it.

Everything else is gravy. I teach my cause check the exact same way I do the prelanding check, which will be done every time the plane is in the air. "primer, master, mags on both, fuses, carb heat, mixture rich, fuel selector on both, gauges green".......in a 152/172 it works great, just work starting left to right. And a student should be touching each item as they continue through. Once they get into the emergency procedures, they should already have quite a bit of work in the circuit, and as a result have gone through the pre-landing memory checklist ALOT!. Radio call comes right out of the PSTAR study material, and the PX brief, well just use a little common sense. "we are going to be putting the plane down in this field, please keep your hands and feet free of the controls at all times, place your jacket or blanket on the dash, all sharp objects off your face. Place your seat in the full back position, and prepare for landing" That's all there is to it. As long as you've been trained properly, any pilot should be able to simply set up a plane for best glide, and still be able to do a few other things in the mean time. That's assuming altitude allows, and in most cases, it would

[Cat Driver]

"primer, master, mags on both, fuses, carb heat, mixture rich, fuel selector on both, gauges green".....

You take the fuses out of the fuse holders and examine them?

[teh1pilot]

"primer, master, mags on both, fuses, carb heat, mixture rich, fuel selector on both, gauges green".....

You take the fuses out of the fuse holders and examine them?

Edited due to lack of coffee over the last couple days. Very poor choice of words. What I meant to say.....CB's, not fuses

[Colonel Sanders]

What?

[Shiny Side Up]

You heard him, he checks the Cumulonimbus clouds too. Best not to ask.

[teh1pilot]

You heard him, he checks the Cumulonimbus clouds too. Best not to ask.

aaaaahahhahaha.......I've had my coffee now for the morning people. I'll attempt to pick up the pieces of my dignity now.

[jschnurr]

Which circuit breaker causes the engine to fail when it pops?

[Shiny Side Up]

Which circuit breaker causes the engine to fail when it pops?

None, but there are a few that might be contributing factors to your ability to restart the engine, or indicators of bigger problems. Depends on type.

[Cat Driver]

My reason for pointing out your mistake in your pre landing checks tech1pilot was because of this statement you made.

I'm a huge fan of muscle memory,

Either you need more repetition of pre landing checks so you can remember them or you need to be a bit more careful when giving flying instruction advice on a flight training forum.

Just sayin.

P.S. :

Do you make them do that pre landing check in the circuit?

[DonutHole]

When I started flying with really experienced pilots I tried to pull the whole FTU flow check left to right pre landing checklist bullshit..

I Was hit with the newspaper... "WTF are you doing?" He asked... "are you aware that we are landing?"

If the instructor in that video killed the engine on me, during my cause check I would be like 'ah ha, its the fuckin mixture' and restart the engine.

Showing everybody how super badass and cool you are because you can glide a perfectly serviceable aircraft to landing is something best left to the hoovers of this earth... purely my opinion but why create an emergency when no need for one exists.

[DonutHole]

Which circuit breaker causes the engine to fail when it pops?

The one that starts a fire which burns through the fuel lines when you reset it.

Not a huge fan of resetting popped cb's in flight