Gender

[treehugger123]

Hey folks - this is my first post on this forum, so I'd like to start by saying hi

I'm a 20 year old woman who is wrapping up an undergrad degree and seriously considering VFR (passed online tests, waiting for an assessment offer). I've been lurking for awhile and am hoping some of you can share your experiences about gender in the field. Does Nav Canada explicitly look to train female applicants (all else being equal)? What is the gender ratio like in the courses and then the workplace? If you've noticed that males do outnumber females, why do you think that is? Any comments and observations would be really appreciated!

[TA/RA]

Ok I'll bite...

Well done on passing the online testing the next step is to be invited for a very intense in person testing session. As far as gender goes there is definitely a strong female presence in both operational and management positions. As I am sure you know the gender ratio is weighted towards the male side, I can also assume that the ratio of applications is also weighted in the same direction.

The only trouble that I have with your question is that you ask "Does Nav Canada explicitly look to train female applicants" and then you follow that with "all things being equal". Im just a lowly trainee myself but I am pretty sure that a company cannot "explicitly" look to hire a certain gender one way or the other.

Having recently experienced the entire selection process what I can tell you is that Nav Canada does explicitly look to train people who meet the criteria set out in their very thorough testing and interview process and people who appear to have the aptitude to grasp the fundamentals of the job. Nobody really knows if you can do the job not the company or the trainee until you are thrown into the fire, meaning to say that gender has nothing to do with anything. Many of the very skilled and knowledgeable instructors here are female.

Best of luck in the process! My only advice moving forward in your personal and professional life in whatever field that may be would be to focus on the skills and aptitudes that you posses and not whether your genitals are innie or outie. It will save you a lot of frustration and it will also allow you to appreciate your many achievements knowing that they were earned through hard work and perseverance rather than gender bias.

[kevenv]

Where I work:
In a specialty of 12, 0 women
In a specialty of 35, 2 women
In a specialty of 55, 5 women

[treehugger123]

TA/RA:
Thanks for the response!
The reason I asked about the company explicitly looking to hire females is because I noticed how they asked if I was a visible minority, a person with disabilities, etc. I am not super familiar with the Canadian Employment Equity Act but I got the feeling that those facts factor into the decision process. Since they also asked for my gender, I thought that may be a factor. I know an IFR instructor and he basically told me that the company is always hoping to achieve a more equal gender ratio. Granted, he doesn't make admissions decisions and he's only familiar with one location, so I wasn't sure if that was just his impression. I don't think that I deserve an advantage, because I am more privileged in terms of opportunity and schooling than some men. I'm applying to ATC because my strengths are definitely in the math/spatial reasoning realm, not because I'm looking for a shortcut thanks to my vagina. However, my beliefs don't affect their decision process so if I DO have an advantage I would like to know. Anyways, thanks for being so helpful. I know this topic can be sensitive and I really appreciate that you took the time to respond thoughtfully.

kevenv:
Wow, those are some pretty abysmal figures...

[TA/RA]

Fair enough i guess its a fair question based on the information that you are going off of. On the application dies it actually ask your gender? I would find that very surprising, however i suppose most people would figure it out based on ones name anyway. I dont thing gender ratios play into whether someone is a visible minority relative to the specific field they are getting into.

Anyways, where I am training there are quite a few women far more than kenev describes. Best of luck in the process.

[treehugger123]

Yeah they did ask if I was male or female, but they also asked for birthdate etc so it could have just been for the sake of demographics information.

I'm really happy to hear that more women are in your training group, because kevenv's numbers were kind of shocking to me (didn't realize the gap would be THAT big).

[kevenv]

Anyways, where I am training there are quite a few women far more than kenev describes. Best of luck in the process.

Define "quite a few..." and "far more than...." in terms of the overall number of qualified controllers. Or give a percentage of the overall that you feel are women. WRT ratios of females to male and why it is what it is, you would need to know what percentage of applicants are female, what percentage make into training and finally what percentage actually qualify before you can make assumptions on the why part. Maybe the percentages that are successful from start to finish are the same for both sexes indicating far fewer women apply.

[kevenv]

I'm really happy to hear that more women are in your training group, because kevenv's numbers were kind of shocking to me (didn't realize the gap would be THAT big).

The numbers I gave are not women in a training group, rather they are qualified controllers. See my post above for further.

BTW, good luck in your journey.

[TA/RA]

There are no women in our training group however there are 4-5 currently in the OJT phase of the process. I do not have specific numbers my observations are based solely of the number of qualified licensed females that I see in the building. Im sorry that I cant be more specific.

Like kenev said, It would be pretty safe to assume the gender bias stems from the number of males/females even apply in the first place. For example in my assessment session for the written testing there were 10 males and 2 females.

[treehugger123]

Thanks!

I obviously don't expect you to know the ins and outs of Nav Canada hiring stats, but any tidbit of info helps!

[LousyFisherman]

Well I know I always get a little lift when I get the lady working YYC terminal
She even remembers me from an incident a while ago where XRAY had been transposed
to ECHO between my filing and her reception of the flight plan



LF

[lilfssister]

Percentages are higher (though I would have to go through our recently updated seniority list to figure out an exact number) in FSS than ATC for females as far as I know. Prior to perhaps the late 70's it was pretty low, from all I have heard, and usually all the women in the business were the only woman at their site. I did hear recently (can't remember where-possibly my statistic loving co-worker who was perusing the new seniority list the other day?) that there is a Flight Service Station with MORE women than men.

I don't think being female will give you an advantage. As stated above NavCan would LIKE to employ more women, but you have to pass the online testing to progress at all in the process, and that does not discriminate. Definitely more women need to apply to get the numbers up. I've talked to lots of women who think they might be interested in an ATS career and then say no when told of the shift work-nights + weekends + holidays.

[treehugger123]

So from what I gather Nav Canada would like to encourage more women to apply, so that the applicant gender ratio will be equal (presumably translating into an equal pass ratio). NOT that Nav Canada lets gender factor into it's decision once applicants are in the system.

[Parth]

Here are the numbers for the last few courses in YYZ.

IFR course: 5 men, 1 woman
IFR course: 2 men, 0 women
IFR course: 4 men, 1 woman
IFR course: 5 men, 1 woman

VFR course: 5 men, 0 women
VFR course: 5 men, 1 woman
VFR course: 2 men, 4 women

If you ignore the unusual primarily female class the rest of the numbers are pretty consistent with the numbers I see in the building.

[cyeg66]

YYC terminal: 28 guys
1 gal (with a 2nd in training)
So our numbers of girls may go up a whopping 100%!

[lilfssister]

So from what I gather Nav Canada would like to encourage more women to apply, so that the applicant gender ratio will be equal (presumably translating into an equal pass ratio). NOT that Nav Canada lets gender factor into it's decision once applicants are in the system.

Correct

[Gravy]

Churchill FSS