Ornge Sikorsky Air ambulance accident Northern Ontario

[Bede]

Tuk, You are falling into a dangerous trap where you believe that safety is a binary state with a situation being either safe or unsafe. Is flying in the middle of the night absolutely unsafe? No, but is orders of magnitude less safe than a daylight trip in good weather.

Medevacs are all a risk management game. You weigh the probability that someone is going to die. If there is no increased risk for a patient dying by waiting until daylight, why accept any increased risk for the crew flying them?

[midwingcrisis]

I have always enjoyed the discussion when Pilots are compared to Doctors, BS. Mutually exclusive. YEP, I still miss those daisies in my potato salad at Canmar. Oh yea....and the daily commute.

[single_swine_herder]

So .... I just don't get it.

Do airlines cancel flight operations because it's dark? How about the charter segment of 703 ops? Etc, etc ....

Increased risk relative to daylight.... yup, no doubt. But is the conduct of safe night flight operations within the reasonable expectation of a many decades experienced commercially licensed pilot with instrument rating? By God, I'd sure hope so.

The concept being advanced that night ops of medical transfers be cancelled is like a crew of a sailing ship in the 1600's being told they would fall off the edge of the earth if they went too far over the horizon, and the borders of their charts contained depictions of sea monsters and giant beings crushing and swallowing ships.

The problem at play here isn't daylight vs night vs IFR ..... it's about crews being properly trained for the job to be done, then monitored for SOP conformance and feedback on what is needed to do the work properly and fully within a pilot's comfort zone of competence, operating properly maintained equipment selected to handily perform as required for the operational role, low pressure line checks focussed on increasing proficiency and confidence based on competence, and proper crew supervision and mentoring.

Then you need appropriate leadership of all the crews from the top.

If the issue is that the medevac crews have been on 24 hour call for the last 17 days straight ..... and working for the type of operator that says .... "Oh, no calls came in and you didn't fly 4 days last week while on stand-by, so those are your days off .... and your schedule is reset for another 17...." well obviously that's plain wrong and nothing more need be said about that kind of place.

ORNGE should not be one of those environments ... it's a non-profit motivated provincial air carrier employer with all manner of methods to ensure the employees are not expected to even hint at violating the minimum standards set out on the regs and best industry practises.

The rank and file at ORNGE have very strong provincial union representation available to them, and a huge support structure compared to some poor bugger in YXL or YRL trying to eek out an existence and feed his family by working for an operator who is constantly losing money and always 3 weeks away from declaring bankruptcy while flying junk that should be melted down and turned into T-Fal frying pans.

If worse comes to worse, there's always "the plain brown envelope" delivered to the transporation and healthcare critic in opposition and the news media to expose safety issues which are untennable. None of those are available to Sam Schemedly flying medevac for Gumboot Airways at 0300 on 35 minutes sleep after logging his 18th hour of airtime in the last 24, and saying "no" is generally responded to with "you're fired."

So, after reading the above information on philosophy .... help me out here ..... "we" as commercial pilots with loads of flight time, appropriate ratings, a training program which concentrates on achieving and maintaining proficiency well above the minimums should be able to fly as long as we have IFR weather minimums and the right equipment which is serviceable regardless of the time of day.

Where am I missing the bus here?

Or should we turn in our licences to Transport, and ask for them to be restricted to day VFR/IFR only?

I get that the people who lost their lives were good friends of many of you, and their loss is horrible, horrible, horrible. Don't think for a micro-second that I don't understand that, and have experienced the same feelings in the past for the same reasons.

But, just like a chapter from Ernest K. Ghann's timeless flying novel "Fate Is The Hunter," they were either found lacking in skill when tested by circumstances, or the aircraft let them down and put them into the trees to die needlessly, senselessly, and tragically, leaving many lives behind with gaping holes in their worlds.

[Tuk U]

Well said Swine herder man.... Finally common sense is surfacing...

[Doc]

Again, nothing changes the simple FACT, that if there had been no danger of this particular patient passing away that night, and this had this flight been put off till dawn, these four people would be alive. Pump all the "the airlines don't cancel because its dark....."crap all you want....
Airlines specifically schedule crews to fly nights. These crews come on duty, and go flying. They do NOT sit around the "ready room" for 5-6 hours before the phone rings. The operate in a more controlled environment. They know where, and when they're flying.
I didn't just arrive on the scene here. I do KNOW of what I speak. 75% or more of all medevacs I was involved in (I'm willing to bet its as many as most of you?) were not priority flights. And the industry knows this. For the most part, it's too politically incorrect to admit that simple fact.
It's time to make some of the "tummy aches" wait till morning.

[midwingcrisis]

Maybe lets just wait for the TSB to hand out their report. Nite Nite y'all

[Doc]

So, what happened to this patient? Did he die? Or, did he WALK onto the sked the next day? Somebody must know. This flight cost four people their lives.....where was the urgency?

[Jack In The Box]

So .... I just don't get it.

Do airlines cancel flight operations because it's dark? How about the charter segment of 703 ops? Etc, etc ....

Increased risk relative to daylight.... yup, no doubt. But is the conduct of safe night flight operations within the reasonable expectation of a many decades experienced commercially licensed pilot with instrument rating? By God, I'd sure hope so.

The concept being advanced that night ops of medical transfers be cancelled is like a crew of a sailing ship in the 1600's being told they would fall off the edge of the earth if they went too far over the horizon, and the borders of their charts contained depictions of sea monsters and giant beings crushing and swallowing ships.

The problem at play here isn't daylight vs night vs IFR ..... it's about crews being properly trained for the job to be done, then monitored for SOP conformance and feedback on what is needed to do the work properly and fully within a pilot's comfort zone of competence, operating properly maintained equipment selected to handily perform as required for the operational role, low pressure line checks focussed on increasing proficiency and confidence based on competence, and proper crew supervision and mentoring.

Noooo.....The problem at play is the fact people are being woken up in the middle of the night when they are tired, their circadian rhythm is out, and their body is used to being asleep to go fly "priority" medevacs for patients that, honestly, can wait until morning when a crew is rested.

Your post leads me to believe you have never done night medevacs before. I agree with Doc 100% on this. As I've said before, a pilots job is to minimize risk. There's no need to be doing night medevac operations into VERY sketchy airports (keep in mind, you're not flying into GTA or the lower mainland where there is lots of lights and water to see...you're flying into the middle of NWONT or the like at night where there are trees, towers, and sometimes hills with nothing but runway lights to see on the ground without even so much as a PAPI to guide you in most cases...this is a challenge, at best, when 100% rested never mind half asleep) when a patient could wait until morning.

Of course, OTOH, when a patient DOES die because of a lack of urgency by the nurses to get a medevac...theres a huge political uproar caused. Political correctness is a *****

[J31]

So, what happened to this patient? Did he die? Or, did he WALK onto the sked the next day? Somebody must know. This flight cost four people their lives.....where was the urgency?

“Doc” I sympathize with what you are saying about the majority of medevac’s are NOT urgent with a lot of “tummy ache” calls. BUT it does not change anything whether the patient was critical or not.

Would you feel better if the patient died and we still lost 4 Air Ambulance crew? I’m sure you would not, nor I.

The operation should have all the industry accepted policy’s, training, equipment and procedures to operate safely IFR at night regardless of the patient’s status. But it appears Orange has some serious problems in training and procedures.

In this day and age we do have the capability to operate safely at night whether doing a Medevac, scheduled or charter.

You work with what you have whether it, be VFR night time approach to “Little Town” or a ILS approach to “Big City”

The job Medevac Pilot” is to safely get medical personal to the call and return regardless of the patient’s status. Many of us do not have the medical training to allow us to decide who is critical or not. Medical personnel make those decisions and call for transport. Once again we may not agree with the level of urgency but we have a job to do, safely and efficiently.

We should not try to be hero’s flying like Super Man because “the patient is gonna die” if I follow established procedures. Always fly the same….safely and efficiently regardless of the patients status.

You owe it to your medical personnel on board and of course…..your own ass!

And yes I have been there also, at night, 3am, poor weather, into bum f#ck nowhere strips, with half the runway lights shot out only to find 10 inches of snow on a runway that the snowplow operator told me had been cleared off. Yup for a “tummy ache”! Left them there.......

[single_swine_herder]

Have it your way Doc ,.... rather than advocating for properly staffed locations and training the people to do this work competently, we just shut down flight ops because it's night ..... and we in our wonderfully advanced medical wisdom decide that the medical staff are grossly incompetent for using their professional triage criteria to determine a patient needs to get to advanced care because they are at CTAS 1 or 2 level of criticality.

Suit yourself, your mind is more than made up, the thought process is set in concrete with a lot of rebar thrown in for good measure to block further discussion or search for a proper solution.

[Bede]

Swine herder,

You're missing the point. Airlines fly at night from pavement to pavement with ILS and crews that are generally well-rested. There is no increased accident rate for airlines at night. The same is not true for medevacs. Accident reports are littered with medevac accidents nearly all occurring at night.

I don't think Doc ever advocated shutting down all medevacs at night, just shutting down frivolous ones. A CTAS 1 or 2 patient would still get medevaced but a CTAS 5 could wait. There is a risk with every flight and no matter what training the crews have, the risk increases at night into remote airports. How can you justify that risk when there is no increased reward?

I'm not sure why you would launch a medevac for a CTAS 1. CTAS 1 is a resuscitation in progress which seems kind of futile. Perhaps wait until the code is called or the resuscitation is complete? Nurse: "Doc this guy is in Vfib". Doctor: "Quick, call for a medevac!"

From the new CTAS guidlines published in CMEJ http://www.cjem-online.ca/v10/n2/p136
"Substantively different from the original CTAS implementation guidelines was the inclusion of a "Protocol for CTAS Level V" patients that would allow a trained registered nurse, without contacting the on-call physician, to refer patients to a more appropriate service provider or defer care to a later time."

So if a nurse can defer a patient so they don't need to disturb the doctor, why can't a medevac flight be deferred as well?

[single_swine_herder]

I'd suggest that you're missing the point I've been advocating.

Yes, some of the destinations meet only the bare minimum certification standards ...... those places can be trained for ..... or operations to inadequate aerodromes suspended or limited to certain combinations of weather, runway condition, or time of day.

We only fly stabilized CTAS 1 and 2 patients and persons requiring transplants in accordance with a triage schedule, so it's been about 30 years since I was subjected to the 0300 "urgent flight" in the dead of winter into a lousy spot only to be told after landing .... "She'll be right out from town, she's just having her hair done."

These type of flight ops require superior training to over compensate for the circadian rhythm, facilities, stress, etc. I'll bet lots of the medevac ops pilots are lucky if they legitimately receive even the bare minimum amount of time specified in the COM...... it would come as no surprise to me that some of the training record is falsified .... (showing exercises which weren't performed.)

Nobody has commented on the fat that required training is based on material to be covered to an acceptable standard, not governed by hours.

For the last time, to flog this dead horse point yet again expressed differently ....... there are problems in this segment of the industry .... sure. Those problems can be dealt with specifically and conducted safely. Can that be done by some buckshee operator who has one crew on 24 hour call and gets 2.5 hours of low quality training annually? Of course not.

From the outset, my position has been that ORNGE has absolutely no acceptable reason to behave like a buckshee operator.

[flyinthebug]

These type of flight ops require superior training to over compensate for the circadian rhythm, facilities, stress, etc. I'll bet lots of the medevac ops pilots are lucky if they legitimately receive even the bare minimum amount of time specified in the COM...... it would come as no surprise to me that some of the training record is falsified .... (showing exercises which weren't performed.)

Herein lies the problem. After a season on floats on a 206, my 1st twin job was for a Government run medevac air service. We provided medevac services for Northern MB. I had around 700 hours TT and was an FO on a C414. I did receive the bare minimum 4 hours training and then did my PCC ride with the CP.

We did no CRM/SOP training. At that point of my career I didn't even know what a circadian rhythm was? You would think that a government run air service would have had some sort of training on this important part of medevac flying.

We (pilots) lived above the hanger where planes were constantly moving in and out all night, so sleep was at a premium. We lived on stand by and they counted as our days off. If we didn't fly for 4 days, our stand by time counted to reset our meters. Good for another 17 days! I was away from my wife and children for 21 days a month (21 on 7 off). The community we lived in was not exactly a welcoming home away from home. We were TOLD not to go into town on Friday or Saturday nights as we would be very unwelcome. We did 20 hour duty days on a regular basis and we ALL thought how lucky we were to be flying a twin.

Flying at night is equally as safe as flying during the day as long as its pavement to pavement with PAPIs and ILS/GPS approaches available for each runway (and rested pilots). As had been said, its when you blast off at 0200 into snow and low ceilings into 2500-3000' gravel strips that have minimal maintenance...and the Capt has 2500 TT and cant barely grow whiskers yet, and the FO has NO experience...that's when shit gets real.

I agree with you that we have ZERO business trying to assess whether a patient if serious or not. It is our job to perform each flight as safely as we possibly can. The condition of the patient should have NO bearing on our go/no go decisions. Sadly though, as ive shared in other threads, that is not the case and the CP used the "if you don't do it, the patient will die" pressure and as young pilots, we succumbed to it...every time. I believe we need a new set of criteria for what constitutes a "serious" patient that cannot wait til morning. I think many "emergency" medevacs were anything but an emergency...unless the emergency was getting the family to Polo Park mall for a shopping weekend in YWG.

I would hope Ornge has a better training program in place then we did 20 years ago in N. MB. But all the training in the world does not change the fact that going into Shamattawa at 0300 is MUCH more dangerous than going pavement to pavement in a modern turbo prop or jet. Its apples and oranges (no pun intended) when you compare night flying as a medevac pilot vs night flying on a schedule, pavement to pavement.

You have made some incredibly intelligent posts on many threads swine herder, but its obvious to me that you`ve never flown medevac in Northern Canada...as what Doc and others are saying is 100% TRUE. Of all the "serious" medevac i`ve ever flown...I can only remember two that were life or death. The rest were indeed "tummy aches" that could have easily waited until morning. That is simply a fact.

Until the government steps in and mandates certain new criteria for whats "serious" and what can wait, these type of tragic accidents will continue to happen...no matter how experienced the crew may or may not be. Unless you`ve flown at 0200 from Gods Lake to Deer Lake (ON) with 2 hours rest, you wouldn't understand.

Fly safe all.

[lost in the north]

That sounds like Pim Air which was not government run, but owned by 3 partners. They had government money to start up as the partners, or wife were native.

[flyinthebug]

That sounds like Pim Air which was not government run, but owned by 3 partners. They had government money to start up as the partners, or wife were native.

Yes Pim Air. Yes Dave`s wife was native. It was 2 partners (Dave and Eric). Isnt government funded the same as government operated? They had a government contract to provide medevac services for N. MB...all paid for by the government. The machines could not be chartered as they were on 24 hr stand by for medevac. If the province/feds stopped the money flowing, Pim Air would have ceased to exist (as they ultimately did). If they were not government (leased) then why couldn't we provide charters with our equipment?...ill answer my own question...because they were under government contract. Its no different then bidding 2 of our planes for fire patrol contracts. For the summer, the government owns my 2 planes. They go when they are told and where they are told. I cannot charter any aircraft that is committed to a government entity...no matter which arm it is.

[single_swine_herder]

FTB ... we've known each other personally for a long time, and despite allegations that I am an ignoramous that has no operational experience, I really have flown night medevac and not at all unfamiliar with the types of operations conducted into scum-hole runways and less than desireable destinations under crappy conditions.

People continue to miss my point in this thread, or have discounted the information I've put forward as simply being invalid. In either interpretation, I've pretty much explained my position every which way from Sunday, and won't carry on making suggestions for professional standards improvement in the medevac world much longer.

If you're going to go into Shamattawa (after dodging rifle bullets on approach,) and the operating conditions at that airport are such that you need to do 587 "practice" training approaches as a crew to get into the place during the middle of the night with confidence, then so be it.

That's the cost of doing business into that community .... or, like the campaign against drug use on the 80's .... you "just say no" until they improve the facility and can guarantee the safety of pilots and crews so they aren't shot down on approach and overflights as if they were flying bombing missions to Hanoi.

FTB, your description of working for Pim Air as a government operated medevac service is not the same as ORNGE and other provincially owned and operated services at all ..... you were working for a "for profit company" who merely billed the government for flights conducted. They were a classic case of a company in financial trouble and exhibited all of the behaviours associated with an operator who was on their best day, marginal. Not too long after you left Cross Lake, the company did indeed go bankrupt..... as all too many do.

You experienced life in the ooze at the bottom of the aviation ocean that is the territory of the bottom-feeder operator. Some would say .... "the real world." It doesn't have to be that way, and it certainly doesn't have to remain that way for the next few decades. Your description of events is exactly what I'm referring to as the type of "buckshee" operator that shouldn't be permitted to conduct these type of flights into these destinations with grossly inadequate training, no on-going line flying supervision, zero mentoring & professional development, and far less than effective operational control of their flights...... except to say .... "they'll die if you don't fly, and if you don't fly, you're fired because I have a filing cabinet full of resumes of people that want to be here so bad they'll do it for free, or even pay me to carry them along as an F/O. So, you're one very lucky SOB to be working here with the bad attitude you've got. Maybe you should go back to mommy and have her breast feed and pablum feed you for a while to grow a pair of balls. You're going no place in this business if I blackball you ... remember that kid."

I also know you and Doc are friends. It's natural you would lend considerable creedence to his suggestion of suspension of operations for "minor medical inconveniences," and to a very limited point I agree with that.

However, as you wrote, it is not our professional place in the system to sanctimoniously think we have the knowledge to interfere or Monday morning quarterback decisions made by those with the training, credentials, and experience in that area any more than they should be offering nuanced opnions on how a crew could have better conducted an LPV approach into a mine site.

A "tummy ache" could just as easily be the onset of an appendix about to burst, but could also just be constipation cramps which would be cured by a laxative .... or an enema "to flush the system." It's not our call.

All the best FTB .... and as the song goes .... "We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when, but I know we'll meet again, some sunny day."

[lost in the north]

There were 3 partners, not two. They did do charters with the Navajo's. If the partners got along and alcohol was not a factor with 1 partner they would of still been around. The aircraft are not leased as you say, but on call for medivacs. The airline was not government run,the aircraft were still under the control of Pim Air. We do fire patrol, government charters where I work....are we government run as well. Perimeter, Fast Air, etc also do a lot of medivacs, and government work...are they government run?

[flyinthebug]

single_swine_herder...

I actually was agreeing with the majority of what you said. I simply felt from your posts on this topic, that you had limited or no experience doing this type of flying. If I know you personally, send me a PM and lets have a beer and catch up. I didn't in any way mean to insinuate that you were a "ignoramous"...other than I believed you lacked actual experience as a medevac pilot (based on my possible misreading of the content of your posts on this thread). I even went as far as to compliment you on your really well stroked posts on other threads....hence why I was slightly surprised that you seemingly were not grasping the night vs day issue (in the north). Ill take you at your word that you have the experience and we are simply misunderstanding each other.

lost in the north...

If I get a contract with the government to provide 24/7 service for them, and I am not allowed to charter my aircraft even if its sitting idle for the next 5 days, isn't that government "operated" or "committed" at least on some level? If ALL the income is government generated as it was at Pim Air, then I would suggest it was at least a sub contractor to the government. Pim Air was a dedicated medevac company as Voyageur Airways was (at certain bases) in the 90s.

I don't remember the Navajo doing any charter work when I was there? The Cheyenne and 414s were strictly medevac though. The only flights I did in the HO were medevac as well. I know we had an exemption for the Capt`s and they would do a ride on the C414 and get a PPC for both the 414 and PA31. They alternated rides on each machine, each ride.

I do understand what your saying about Fast Air, Perimeter etc and I agree they are certainly not government run. In Pim Air`s case, 100% of their revenue came from the government. They had contract requirements...set by the government. I will concede it was not actually government "run" but when all revenue and requirements come from them, it certainly operated with government oversight and regulations (above and beyond what our regulator sets for us in the CARs).

Perhaps my wording or interpretation of "government run" has upset you? Either way, ill concede the word "run" was not correct. Im sorry for getting you so upset.

Fly safe all.

PS... I knew of 2 partners. Maybe the DOM or Dave`s wife was the third? I just knew Dave and Eric. They were the only two that were ever around.

[lost in the north]

no problem, I was not upset at all. Just disagreed it was government run, It was committed to be on call for medivacs, operated and ran by the 3 partners, the third being a silent one and was not related to the other two.The government had requirements that the pilots had to meet to be approved captains. All other aircraft training had to meet the car's. At one time they were very active with charters.

[flyinthebug]

no problem, I was not upset at all. Just disagreed it was government run, It was committed to be on call for medivacs, operated and ran by the 3 partners, the third being a silent one and was not related to the other two.The government had requirements that the pilots had to meet to be approved captains. All other aircraft training had to meet the car's. At one time they were very active with charters.

Thanks lost in the north. I was only at Pim for about 7 1/2 months then went Captain at Sowind on the HO. I didn't know they were ever a busy charter service. Interesting history I didn't know. Dave was a good guy and his daughter was beautiful inside and out. She (and some cool pilots) made it tolerable. The DOM wore a hat to work most days that said "I hate pilots". CH was CP when I was there. It truly was the bottom of the barrel as I look back, but did get some valuable experience that allowed me to leave at the earliest possible opportunity.

Thanks for the post.
Cheers,
FTB

[mbav8r]

There seems to be a lot of mis information about Pim Air and Medevacs.
First off, years of medevacs under my belt and I guesstimate 98% of them were non urgent and could have been handled by skedevac, however in Canada we have this law about equal access to health services, which means if you live in a city and have a tummy ache you can walk into a hospital and have it looked at, so if you live on a reserve you have the same rights but can't just walk into a hospital.
Another factor is the fact most of the time there is no doctor to diagnose, so it's a nurse providing the symptoms over the phone and a doctor reluctant to take the liability, so off they go in a medevac.
Another factor that I had come across, was the fact nursing stations are not staffed with day and night shift, it's usually the same nurse who worked all day now babysitting the tummy ache at 0200.

As for Pim air, the c414 and Cheyenne were dedicated medevac machines but were available for charters, there was no government reserve, just on call. So if they sent one out on a charter for 3.50 a mile and a medevac came up, there goes 7.00 per mile, not to mention the pain in the ass it was to re configure it, which I had done when nurses weren't available but pilots were, we absolutely did charters on those machines.
It's also funny, my time there was obviously different because we were not informed of the patients status before the decision to go was made. There were many occasions where I delayed a trip for weather, there were also occasions where the nursing station would ask us to try any way, on their dime of course and if it was safe, eg the reason for the delay was just the ceiling, not freezing rain, we would go. I went to shamtown one night 4 times for the same patient, low fog, but the nurse really wanted to sleep, so she kept telling us the weather improved, we fuel up go, do a missed and come back to repeat the cycle. Finally after the sun burned off the fog, we made it in, there was no priority just a sleep deprived nurse who now had to work all day after working the last 24 hours.
Just the reality of northern medevac flying.
And just to add fuel to the fire, no one ever gets sick at 0800, after my years of this type of flying I had nearly twice as much night time vs daytime in my logbook.

[flyinthebug]

As for Pim air, the c414 and Cheyenne were dedicated medevac machines but were available for charters, there was no government reserve, just on call. So if they sent one out on a charter for 3.50 a mile and a medevac came up, there goes 7.00 per mile, not to mention the pain in the ass it was to re configure it, which I had done when nurses weren't available but pilots were, we absolutely did charters on those machines.

It's also funny, my time there was obviously different because we were not informed of the patients status before the decision to go was made. .

When I worked there, we never once reconfigured the 414s or Cheyenne to charter from medevac...for the reasons you pointed out (pain in the ass for half the revenue etc). When I was there, Dave was running things and was there daily. You would see Eric once a week at most. Maybe they chartered when you were there, but they didn't when I was flying there.
As I think back, maybe the PA31 chartered on rare occasion, but never the 414s or Cheyenne. At that point in time, they were dedicated 24/7 ready to go in 30 mins aircraft.

As for your 2nd point, we were also rarely informed of the patients condition. I said on one occasion, the CP told us it was a "must go" flight as the patient was that serious and wouldn't last the night if we didn't go. I didn't say it was a daily occurrence. I have said on many occasions that we as pilots have no business knowing or deciding whether we go/no go based on the condition of the patient. That is for the doctors and nurses to decide. Pilots fly the plane, the flight nurse tends to the patient. We have no need to know whats going on behind us (unless what the patient has is potentially contagious).

Fly safe.

[nothingbeatsflying]

Some great posts here. I've been keeping my eye on this thread and obviously there is some guys who have enough history in this industry to confirm this...

Ornge used to be known as the Ontario Air Ambulance. Did this organization not do the same job for 30ish years with a great safety record? Based on those articles in the Toronto Star, I'm guessing swine herder will be shown right - lack of effective training probably will show as a root cause.

The most profound thing I've read on this thread so far is that training is about having a pilot achieve proficiency at a particular task, not just doing a certain number of hours for paperwork's sake.

[CFR]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... craft.html

ORNGE considers night vision goggles.

[Doc]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... craft.html

ORNGE considers night vision goggles.

Seems to me they're having a hard enough time training with the equipment they have.

Are we going after Al-Qaeda operatives? Or appendicitis patients for the Moose Factory Hospital? We don't have enough "Walter Mitty" types flying around as it is? If night vision glasses were the answer, the airlines would be using them. They're not.......gee, I wonder why? They must know something?
The ability to follow the minimums on an approach plate, coupled with maintaining a positive rate of climb after take off is what's needed here. Not what will surely be a multi-million dollar retrofit than these dreamers are considering. It's the government way. If there's a problem, throw money at it.
Can't wait to see the excuses when they bend one wearing night vision gear....and they will.