beaver hourly operating costs?

[tractor747]

Trying to locate numbers for hourly operating costs for a beaver (amphibian).

the latest numbers that I found are dirty numbers where you calculate the hourly fuel cost ($150 hr) times 3 which will give you the total cost to operate this airplane.

Pros and cons for the beaver from the pros out there will be much appreciated.

Difference between the normal beaver, turbo and turbine.

Any info would be great.

thanks

tractor

[letsfly]

The most recent numbers I have are for the Piston Beaver on floats only, which includes:
Fuel, Insurance, Prop, Engine and Pilot @ $355.00 per hour.

It could vary somewhat based on wages, fuel cost and prop manufacturer.

[AuxBatOn]

With no pilot: 352$/hr!

(Sarcasm)

[Rowdy]

The most recent numbers I have are for the Piston Beaver on floats only, which includes:
Fuel, Insurance, Prop, Engine and Pilot @ $355.00 per hour.

It could vary somewhat based on wages, fuel cost and prop manufacturer.

That's pretty close to what we see here for actual operating costs. Varies a bit up and down depending on additional maintenance from mishandling and what the actual days fuel price is of course .

There is only a piston and a turbine beaver. No turbo. Sometimes the Turbine just gets reffered to as a Turbo Beaver.

[tcraft]

[

[tcraft]

The most recent numbers I have are for the Piston Beaver on floats only, which includes:
Fuel, Insurance, Prop, Engine and Pilot @ $355.00 per hour.

It could vary somewhat based on wages, fuel cost and prop manufacturer.

[tcraft]

Dose`nt include engine time ,prop time and maintenance.

[trey kule]

Why are you asking? "Operating costs" can vary widly depending on whether this is a seasonal use private aircraft, or a commercially operated machine (examples), how many hours a year it is flown.

I noticed you included the $3.00 an hour cost of a pilot , so I expect you may be talking commercial use. Btw. Determining the actual cost of a pilot is something most small operators are not good at.

The problem is much of the operating costs may be nothing more than book entries for awhile, and some of variable costs like insurance, have at least a partially fixed component. To do it with accuracy requires a bit more than fuel, insurance, maintenance, and pilot, which , for the most part are pulled out of nowhere

I am not trying to nitpick here, but I have seen some pilots o things like break even analysis for their college courses, and not have a real clue how to cost things out. Very few pilots ever consider depreciation as part of their costs. The usual thing I hear is that planes dont depreciate. Never need to be painted, or have their avionics updated, so no need to figure those into hourly costs.

Help us out here. The purpose of the aircraft is important.

[GUMPS]

If it has anything to do with his previous posts about "starting a sightseeing" my advice is to walk away from your idea. But if you're that keen where do you plan to do this work with the beaver? The reality is most major cities someone has tried to do it. Only a very few have lasted more than 1 season.

[trey kule]

Ah.... Well then. There are of course many variables, but for rough figuring, a beaver has to make about $1000 an hour, based on about 400-500 hours a year, and as part of a fleet with a persons to aircraft ratio that is practical.
The variables here will typically not make more than a 10% difference +/-.
If that number seems high, perhaps think a bit more about basic operating costs than just the plane if it is for commercial use. The plane is the revenue source to pay all the company expenses, not just its own, and for a commercial operation that should be figured into the operating costs.

[GUMPS]

yup Trey you're right. $950-1000/hr is the magic number myself and many other operators have come up with if you're trying to do sightseeing and float/amphib charter.

[tractor747]

Thanks guys,

What would be the hourly cost on a rough note of course if the beaver flew 1200 hours a year?

[angry inch]

I hope you're not basing a business plan estimating 1200 hrs a year for your Beaver... I'd be curious to know what the hours were on the busiest DHC-II in the country last year was...

[tractor747]

I hope you're not basing a business plan estimating 1200 hrs a year for your Beaver... I'd be curious to know what the hours were on the busiest DHC-II in the country last year was...

can the beaver handle 1200 hours a year? Yes or no . Question to all the beaver pros out there.

[angry inch]

The Beaver can definitely handle it.. Just seems like those start-up numbers would put your Beaver as the busiest one in the world that's all. Not sayin' it isn't possible.
Good Luck

[CamAero]

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=59865&p=564817&hilit

[ragbagflyer]

There is only a piston and a turbine beaver. No turbo. Sometimes the Turbine just gets reffered to as a Turbo Beaver.

Not true. The turbine powered Beaver is actually called the "Turbo Beaver".

[GUMPS]

1200 hours?! what do you seriously planning on doing here? Don't forget to wager in your 11 or 12 100's your going to pay plus whatever lost airtime during said inspections

[tractor747]

1200 hours?! what do you seriously planning on doing here? Don't forget to wager in your 11 or 12 100's your going to pay plus whatever lost airtime during said inspections

maybe I should get two beavers then.

[Beefitarian]

maybe I should get two beavers then.

Definitely!

[Rowdy]

There is only a piston and a turbine beaver. No turbo. Sometimes the Turbine just gets reffered to as a Turbo Beaver.

Not true. The turbine powered Beaver is actually called the "Turbo Beaver".

The context of the question asked was whether there was an in between, a turbocharged beaver perhaps, which would be silly as the radial is indeed supercharged. You just like trying to argue with me dont ya

[ragbagflyer]

Yeah I re-read the question after I posted

[iflyforpie]

1200 hours?! what do you seriously planning on doing here? Don't forget to wager in your 11 or 12 100's your going to pay plus whatever lost airtime during said inspections

maybe I should get two beavers then.

You'll need an AMO too... because there is absolutely no way you will get 1200 hours a year on a machine without a dedicated shop and AMEs who love working nothing but nights..... plus being on call for the inevitable snags that show up.

Honestly, unless you have a contract in hand... there is no way you are going to even fly half of that. So many new operators fail because they overestimate the number of hours they will fly. They set their prices like they will fly 1000 hours a year, they do brisk business because they are cheaper than the competition, but still don't make enough to make fixed costs. Then they go away after they'e dug a deep hole... it's usually about a two to five year cycle depending on how deep the pockets are of the individual.

[Bede]

Tractor747,

I've been reading your posts for a while now. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think your business plans has all the marks of failure. I don't want to piss in your snow angel but perhaps my criticism can save you from losing a bunch of money. I have a feeling you love airplanes, have a bit of money after years of hard work, want to be your own boss, but don't know a lot about the business. Please don't lose a bunch of your money on this.

You are going on a public board asking about hourly costs. This is a poor place for it. There are too many variables. How much is insurance? If you own the plane outright, you can get away without paying for hull insurance. As a new operator, insurance will be higher as well. Will you have an AMO? If you have your own AMO, maintenance is cheaper, however, you need a certain number of hours flown to justify paying a DOM, equipment costs, etc. 1200 hrs/ year on a Beaver??? I have never heard of an operator flying that much. Maybe scheduled flying on the coast, but not charter.

A general rule of thumb is fuel costs x 3. If you want more of a breakdown, calculate fuel and oil. Then go by an AMO and ask them how many hours a typical beaver flies and how much they spend on maintenance per year. Then figure out engine and prop overhaul cost. Calculate fixed costs (salaries, hangar, insurance, phones, office, internet, advertising, etc.) Don't forget to add in incidentals (paint, interior, avionics, etc.)

You need to figure out what your revenue will be. Call some operators and get a few quotes. Then knock 10% off the price because as soon as you open up, they'll cut their prices to under cut you. I think you will pretty soon realize that you can make more money doing your existing job than this.

However if you do go ahead, I wish you all the best.

[tractor747]

Tractor747,

I've been reading your posts for a while now. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think your business plans has all the marks of failure. I don't want to piss in your snow angel but perhaps my criticism can save you from losing a bunch of money. I have a feeling you love airplanes, have a bit of money after years of hard work, want to be your own boss, but don't know a lot about the business. Please don't lose a bunch of your money on this.

You are going on a public board asking about hourly costs. This is a poor place for it. There are too many variables. How much is insurance? If you own the plane outright, you can get away without paying for hull insurance. As a new operator, insurance will be higher as well. Will you have an AMO? If you have your own AMO, maintenance is cheaper, however, you need a certain number of hours flown to justify paying a DOM, equipment costs, etc. 1200 hrs/ year on a Beaver??? I have never heard of an operator flying that much. Maybe scheduled flying on the coast, but not charter.

A general rule of thumb is fuel costs x 3. If you want more of a breakdown, calculate fuel and oil. Then go by an AMO and ask them how many hours a typical beaver flies and how much they spend on maintenance per year. Then figure out engine and prop overhaul cost. Calculate fixed costs (salaries, hangar, insurance, phones, office, internet, advertising, etc.) Don't forget to add in incidentals (paint, interior, avionics, etc.)

You need to figure out what your revenue will be. Call some operators and get a few quotes. Then knock 10% off the price because as soon as you open up, they'll cut their prices to under cut you. I think you will pretty soon realize that you can make more money doing your existing job than this.

However if you do go ahead, I wish you all the best.

bede, thank you for the kind words especially the negative ones. Much appreciated. Comments like yours are what makes me drive even harder to prove guys like you wrong.
We only live once, and if you don't try you'll never know.