Must be a record...3 go-arounds for one flight.

The Raven · Post by **The Raven** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:51 pm

Cadors Report

2013-08-09
Narrative:
A Westjet Encore de Havilland DHC 8 400 (WJE3247) from Saskatoon, SK (CYXE) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) overshot runway 16 due to unstable approach. The aircraft was vectored back around for an approach runway 10 and overshot that runway at 0240Z due to being "High and having issues". WJE3247 was then vectored back for an approach runway 16 and was overshot by Tower due to traffic from approach too slow. WJE3247 was vectored back for an approach runway 16 and landed OK at 0305Z.

FenderManDan · Post by **FenderManDan** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:18 pm

As long as everybody is ok 10 go arounds are ok with me

anonymity · Post by **anonymity** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:54 pm

You get what you pay for!

Gentle Giant · Post by **Gentle Giant** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:21 pm

FenderManDan wrote:As long as everybody is ok 10 go arounds are ok with me

Sorry, you got to set the bar a little higher than that. Passengers paying for a professional flight crew deserve better than a couple a guys flailing around until things randomly line up correctly. I know you're just trying to make the point that completing a safe approach is better than trying to save an unstable one. With that I agree but there is a limit - and 10 ain't it!

flyer 1492 · Post by **flyer 1492** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:52 pm

3 go arounds when the weather is good...I would hate to be on one of Encore's flights when the weather was at minimums.

matrix · Post by **matrix** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:21 pm

anonymity wrote:You get what you pay for!

I guess these guys must have been on Jazz's B scale then.

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... 8o0333.asp

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 7o0124.pdf

monkey · Post by **monkey** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:36 pm

so we should wait till they drive the gear through the wing to draw parallels between shitty wages and poor performances

matrix · Post by **matrix** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:00 pm

So more money makes you a better pilot?

How much was that Asiana captain paid?

FICU · Post by **FICU** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:10 pm

Just how much experience is sitting in the front of these Encore machines... one has to wonder and be a little concerned.

Gentle Giant · Post by **Gentle Giant** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:15 pm

matrix wrote:So more money makes you a better pilot?

Nope but more money attracts more experienced pilots and more experience makes you a better pilot.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:17 pm

We should start a pool for date of first tail strike...

Gentle Giant · Post by **Gentle Giant** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:19 pm

FICU wrote:Just how much experience is sitting in the front of these Encore machines... one has to wonder and be a little concerned.

Well, there's at least one Encore crew that I wouldn't want to fly with. They pretty much proved they can't reliably get the airplane on the ground in VFR weather. Wonder how they'd do with an engine out or HYD failure or even a fire. Three tries in VFR weather with a perfectly serviceable airplane is unacceptable.

matrix · Post by **matrix** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:25 pm

Post (not mine) from another site

http://theairlinewebsite.com/topic/4003 ... or-report/

Talked to the pilot. The first was a normal pilot too high....the next two were a short ATC Vector and then a 10/16 conflict....again ATC. Stuff happens. This is as bad as the armchair critics on PPRUNE.....

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:50 pm

If they did a go-around due to an unstable approach instead of trying to stuff it in anyway, they obviously have all the experience up front they need.

monkey · Post by **monkey** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:10 pm

so matrix you don't agree that encore pays a poor wage ? You don't think that if they paid better they may have gotten more experience into the flight deck?

CpnCrunch · Post by **CpnCrunch** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:03 pm

Typical idiotic avcanada bashing session from people who didnt read the cador.

matrix · Post by **matrix** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:07 pm

I wish the pay were better, but I believe it will improve over time.

Using this cador to further an agenda is just grasping at straws.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:00 pm

They're following SOP, not stable by 1000' go around.
I watched a q400 land so bloody long in YYZ yesterday they cleared at the end of 06R.
which is worse?

Oleo 4 · Post by **Oleo 4** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:13 pm

To the pilots who operated that aircraft today and decided to go around for whatever reason know that not all of us here are arm chair quarterbacks. Whatever decisions you faced on that flight must have been difficult to realize that even in VFR conditions the SAFEST and ONLY option to those who have entrusted their lives with you was to pull up and do it again. Some people have already forgot how lives were lost on the Asiana flight which also operated in VFR conditions.

I don't care if you work for Air Canada, Jazz, Westjet, or Encore......... If the safest thing to do is to pull up and go around then so be it.... Who are we to judge what happened on that flight deck when we each make many mistakes ourselves daily on our own flights. I work for one of the companies I listed however would be happy to pay my hard earned money to any of these companies if the people making the decisions in the front took care of my family when they traveled with blind trust in our industry as PROFESSIONALS.

So those who wish to judge and mock two pilots who brought their plane back safely but just a little late go ahead a do so... I hope for my families sake that we don't have to work or travel with you as you come to terms with the fact you and whomever your religious head of house are not one in the same.....

Rant over! EVERYONE FLY SAFE!

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:39 pm

FICU wrote:Just how much experience is sitting in the front of these Encore machines... one has to wonder and be a little concerned.

These are probably the more experienced guys who jumped at the chance to be the first in. I'd hate to see the experience level down the road. They won't be getting Captains with several thousand hours at those wages for much longer. Imagine they were in going into Terrace BC with a hydraulic problem or an engine out in IMC? Yikes.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:42 pm

matrix wrote:So more money makes you a better pilot?

How much was that Asiana captain paid?

Thats a whole different ballgame. Those pilots had 10000 hours of what? Flying over the Pacific, sleeping in the crew bunks, doing 10 flight legs a month, letting the plane land itself?

Gentle Giant · Post by **Gentle Giant** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:22 am

Oleo 4 wrote:To the pilots who operated that aircraft today and decided to go around for whatever reason know that not all of us here are arm chair quarterbacks. Whatever decisions you faced on that flight must have been difficult to realize that even in VFR conditions the SAFEST and ONLY option to those who have entrusted their lives with you was to pull up and do it again. Some people have already forgot how lives were lost on the Asiana flight which also operated in VFR conditions.

I don't care if you work for Air Canada, Jazz, Westjet, or Encore......... If the safest thing to do is to pull up and go around then so be it.... Who are we to judge what happened on that flight deck when we each make many mistakes ourselves daily on our own flights. I work for one of the companies I listed however would be happy to pay my hard earned money to any of these companies if the people making the decisions in the front took care of my family when they traveled with blind trust in our industry as PROFESSIONALS.

So those who wish to judge and mock two pilots who brought their plane back safely but just a little late go ahead a do so... I hope for my families sake that we don't have to work or travel with you as you come to terms with the fact you and whomever your religious head of house are not one in the same.....

Rant over! EVERYONE FLY SAFE!

There's nothing wrong with trying to figure how the events unfolded and what the cause is, in fact this is an important part of aviation safety. I agree that getting the airplane on the ground safely is the most important point but this certainly does not mean that everything that comes before can or should be ignored.

countryhick · Post by **countryhick** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:03 am

Kag,

As you likely know, its quite common to land long and clear at the end of 6R to shorten taxi time to the US gates. It is also requested by tower at times due to congestion on the middle high speeds.

The encore crew did the right thing. Unstable, go around, simple as that.

Obbie · Post by **Obbie** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:09 am

The real fun part about the Jazz reports is that the guy who nailed
the CRJ to the runway is now flying at West Jet.

3 go arounds is unprofessional, PERIOD
Get a short vector, then you do not accept it.
Don't blame ATC for your lack of judgement and skill.
These two idiots most likely scared the crap out of
half of their pax load. Some who will now never
buy another ticket on their airline again.

You do get what you pay for, just ask the families of
the Colgan crash if you need convincing.

countryhick · Post by **countryhick** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:59 am

Professional; No

Right thing; Yes

My company requires a report for a single missed approach. I would hope the crew is having a discussion with their CP.

Must be a record...3 go-arounds for one flight.

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