OC Transpo bus vs VIA rail train, Ottawa Sept 18 2013

[DanWEC]

It's not. Gates were down and lights flashing. Bus failed to stop for an as yet unknown reason. Tragic.

[chipmunk]

Nobody has raised this serious transportation accident so I will. We all read about it. I drove a small school bus in my earlier life and one thing they thought you as a bus driver is that rail tracks are sacred, and buses with passengers MUST stop, look both ways and then proceed. How on earth can this requirement be waived for the Ottawa Transitway and municipal buses?

School buses abide by this rule, of course, but within Ottawa, OC Transpo buses aren't required to do so and I've never been on a bus that has. STO buses (Gatineau's transit system), which come in to downtown Ottawa from across the river, do stop, however.

The TSB is reporting that the lights and crossing arm were working properly, and that as per a municipal bylaw, the train did not sound the whistle. (Banned between 8pm and noon, oddly enough.)

[petpad]

From all reports, the rail issues seem to have been ok. Sadly, the family of the bus driver is doing the best PR campaign it can to protect his name and deflect blame. The brakes on the bus likely did not fail as the driver would have noticed before passengers started to scream a him (to stop). Therefore, the only options would be medical event, or distraction, or fatigue. The driver apparently reacted to the pax screams, which would rule out medical event (my opinion...). Therefore, it would leave distraction or fatigue. The bus just left Fallowfield station, so dozing off would be unlikely at that point. So what is left , IMHO, is distraction. OC drivers have lots to deal with , including a computer display, a phone, yapping passengers , and so on.

To me the immediate mitigation is to put, for the Transitway only, train gates or barriers at least 200 feet from the track. That way, the bus driver would have busted the gates, but with enough room to stop. The barriers being about 10 feet from the tracks only serve to make you realize oops, you're dead. Of course, bus routes should not cross busy railroad tracks on a daily basis. Permanent fix can only be an underpass for bus traffic. This accident was essentially a RUNWAY INCURSION.

[A346Dude]

Of course, bus routes should not cross busy railroad tracks on a daily basis. Permanent fix can only be an underpass for bus traffic. This accident was essentially a RUNWAY INCURSION.

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to implement this? Even in Ottawa, which doesn't have that many grade crossings, it would be in the billions.

[petpad]

Of course, bus routes should not cross busy railroad tracks on a daily basis. Permanent fix can only be an underpass for bus traffic. This accident was essentially a RUNWAY INCURSION.

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to implement this? Even in Ottawa, which doesn't have that many grade crossings, it would be in the billions.

Well, yes I agree, very expensive, but not all crossings would have to be converted, only the high traffic ones, and those with heavy bus traffic. Cost of doing business. I would spend on such safety before spending a billion $ on light rail. The tunnel I agree though, but not so the LRT. The tunnel could be used by buses. Mayor Watson is taking Ottawa to Detroit territory... He pooped big time on the LRT, and also on the casino. Not that I particularly care about Melnyk, as I don't. But the casino should've been either downtown, or Lawnsdown, or in Kanata. Even Trainyards would be better than that rural setting on Conroy or Albion, can't even tell. Perhaps Watson's vision is right, but th rail crash was just an accident waiting to happen, and as sure as sh__, it did.

[A346Dude]

I would spend on such safety before spending a billion $ on light rail.

Well, I'd spend it on the light rail in a heartbeat. It would take cars and buses off the road which will reduce fatalities every year, as opposed to your option which might prevent one large accident like this every couple decades.

Oh, and as a "side" benefit it would eliminate millions of man hours of commuting time instead of leaving the city's transportation infrastructure languishing.

This isn't even a particularly busy crossing by Canadian standards; it sees only a few relatively low speed (due to it's proximity to Fallowfield station) passenger trains per day. Compare this to cities like Winnipeg which have many crossings of high-traffic streets (and even highways) with busy main lines. I'm not against grade separation where warranted, but it's impractical to do it everywhere.

[Colonel Sanders]

A few years back, an amazingly similar accident
occurred, also in Ottawa.

Same company (OC Transpo), bus driver simply
drove into the back of a parked car (it was involved
in a prior accident, and had pulled over) in the bus
lane at full speed. No one ever explained why that
accident occurred, either. It was hushed up pretty
well.

After that, people learned their lesson - even if you
are in an accident, never, ever block the bus lane.

[petpad]

I would spend on such safety before spending a billion $ on light rail.

Well, I'd spend it on the light rail in a heartbeat. It would take cars and buses off the road which will reduce fatalities every year, as opposed to your option which might prevent one large accident like this every couple decades.

Oh, and as a "side" benefit it would eliminate millions of man hours of commuting time instead of leaving the city's transportation infrastructure languishing.
.

Well, it's a matter of opinion but LRT won't take cars off the road, and actually I predict more people will actually take their cars back downtown. Massive transfer stations at Blair and elsewhere will turn off transit users used to direct express service that will no longer exist. Door to door service will be 25 to 50% longer too, further justifying the use of cars; furthermore, fewer buses downtown will incite more drivers to drive to work. Sorry for the thread drift, not really aviation.

[grimey]

Of course, bus routes should not cross busy railroad tracks on a daily basis. Permanent fix can only be an underpass for bus traffic.

14 4 car low speed trains a day is not a busy rail line. The underpass was estimated at over $100 million due to the geology in the immediate area.

[grimey]

Of course, bus routes should not cross busy railroad tracks on a daily basis. Permanent fix can only be an underpass for bus traffic. This accident was essentially a RUNWAY INCURSION.

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to implement this? Even in Ottawa, which doesn't have that many grade crossings, it would be in the billions.

Ottawa has 7 level crossings that OC Transpo would cross on a daily basis. Non of them have a lot of rail traffic, and only Woodroffe and possibly Fallowfield have a lot of bus traffic. Woodroffe alone was estimated at $100 million+.

It'll surely get build now, regardless of whether the city can afford it or not.