Endorsement using a friend's plane for the training.

[Creston]

How do you fellows interpret the regulation?
A. Can I use a friend of mine's aircraft to get an endorsement?
See 406.03 (2)b.(iii)
and

B. Can a commercial pilot (with no flight instructor rating) endorse the rating?

I got one interpretation of the regs from a flight school, but would like to hear what you think.
Sincerely

> Requirement to Hold a Flight Training Unit Operator Certificate
>
> 406.03 (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), no person shall operate
> a flight training service in Canada using an aeroplane or helicopter
> in Canada unless the person holds a flight training unit operator
> certificate that authorizes the person to operate the service and
> complies with the conditions and operations specifications set out in
> the certificate.
> (amended 2003/06/01; previous version)
>
> (2) A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator
> certificate may operate a flight training service if
>
> (a) the person holds a private operator certificate or an air operator
> certificate, the aircraft used for training is specified in the
> private operator certificate or air operator certificate, and the
> training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational,
> a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight
> instructor rating; or
>
> (b) the trainee is
>> (i) the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft
> used for training,
>> (ii) a director of a corporation that owns the aircraft used for
> training, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot
> permit - recreational or a private pilot licence, or
>> (iii) using an aircraft that has been obtained from a person who is at
> arm’s length from the flight instructor, and the training is other
> than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot
> licence.
> (amended 2003/06/01; previous version)

[Colonel Sanders]

Sure.

Let's say you're a PPL and you want to get a night
rating. You borrow a privately-registered airplane
(or purchase block time on it, same same) from
person A then get instructor B to teach you on it.

Hell, that's how I got my night rating (many years
ago) - a TC Inspector (and flight instructor) wanted
to build hours for her ATPL, so she bought a block
of hours on a private 172 and we did my night rating
on it. I think she flew the Challenger for NavCan for
years, and is now at Bombardier. She spun me under
the hood at night for unusual attitude recovery, which
was neat, because with a little luck you can topple
the AI.

Or let's say you're a PPL or CPL and you want to
get your float rating. Or VFR multi. Or group 1/2/3
IFR. All of the above can be similarly done.

An FTU might not be enthusiastic about the above
(for obvious reasons) but that doesn't make it illegal.

[Creston]

CS
Thanks for the feedback.
What do you think about the second question asked.
Can a commercial pilot (with no flight instructor rating) endorse the rating?
Sincerely

[Colonel Sanders]

Can a commercial pilot (with no flight instructor rating) endorse the rating?

Gotta deconstruct that a bit.

First of all, the only person that can ENDORSE the rating
in your licence booklet is an Authorized Person, after you
have met all the various requirements for the rating or
licence.

Secondly, whether or not a CPL can provide the flight
training (give you dual) is determined by CAR 425.21:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#425_21

A CPL can give flight training towards float, multi, IFR, etc.

Please read the CARs. And if the CPL that is going to
give you the training doesn't know what the regs are,
well ... find someone else to give you the training, because
he obviously doesn't have a clue.

[5x5]

She spun me under
the hood at night for unusual attitude recovery, which
was neat, because with a little luck you can topple
the AI.

A bit of a highjack, but I'm wondering what's "neat" about this? You're always suggesting other people work to develop better decision making, yet basically you're endorsing something here which I feel has a high risk/low reward valuation.

[Colonel Sanders]

A "spin" in a forward C of G 172 really isn't
much of a spin. The airplane has no eyeballs
and behaves the same during the day as it
does at night. The difference is pretty much
psychological, esp with a great horizon with
lots of lights around.

I have done some very strange things in
airplanes, and that really isn't one of them.

Personally, I would classify it as something
that at first looks much scarier than it actually
is.

A bit like upright vs inverted spins. Inverted
spins are much safer and I prefer them to
upright close to the ground, but they look
scary to pilots that don't understand the physics.