Pop the doors out on C-172

[FenderManDan]

Thought it might be fun to pop the doors (J3 style) out to take arial pics for the Summer.

What are the regs saying about that on the private plane for non commercial photography or just flying like that?
Did anyone try to fly cessnas 100 series without the doors? What are the flying characteristics?

Cheers

Dan

[rigpiggy]

TC would get bent out of shape without the relevant STC, But what they don't know won't hurt you

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enFrameSet

STC Number:
SA40CE

This certificate issued to:
US Parachute Association

STC Holder's Address:
1440 Duke Street
Alexandria VA 22314
United States

Description of the Type Design Change:
Removal of left or right door for any purpose. Optical removal of right front seat, with occupant sitting on floor, and attachment of static line to seat structure or seat belt attachment. (182E LANDPLANE)

Application Date:


Status:
Amended, 06/06/1996

Responsible Office:
New York Aircraft Certification Office (ANE-170), Tel: (516) 228-7300

TC Number -- Make -- Model:
3A13 -- Cessna Aircraft Company, The -- 182E

[iflyforpie]

I wouldn't bother. Shoot out of an open window. The limits to a wide angle shot are the wing, gear, and strut, not the door.

I stick my lens out of the tiny storm window in the 337.

[C-FABH]

If you plan to take photographs for fun (non-commercial) there are no additional TC regs. Be mindful of the separation described in CARS 602.12 and 602.14. Having a 702 AOC for aerial photography allows flight at lower altitude (602.15)

Flying with the door off can be fun if you like wind and fresh air. Opening the window is much easier for the same effect, just make sure your camera isn't resting on the window frame as the vibration will cause blurry pictures.

[Colonel Sanders]

From: BJJudson@cessna.textron.com
To: Satanic Air Pirate
Subject: 172 Door removal for skydiving
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:01:26 -0500

Mr. Pirate,
Please reference Advisory Circular 105-2C. Appendix 2 says that the Cessna
172 may be operated with 1 cabin door removed.

Hope this helps,
Brandon Judson
Service Engineer Dept. 753
(316) 517-5800 Office
(316) 942-9006 Fax

Since that 2006 email from Cessna, the FAA has
updated AC 105-2C with AC 105-2D:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... 105-2D.pdf

APPENDIX 2. OPERATION OF AIRCRAFT WITH DOOR OFF OR MODIFIED FOR
PARACHUTING OPERATIONS
1. Operating Limitations Revision. The previous revision, Advisory Circular (AC) 105-2C,
Sport Parachute Jumping, Appendix 2, provided a list of aircraft that have FAA-approved door
open or removal procedure authorization with operating limitations. That list did not include all
the aircraft currently used in skydiving operations. Instead of continuing with the use of that list,
contact your local Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) for information on getting an
authorization to operate your aircraft with the door removed and/or a door modified to
open/close in flight. Aircraft that have approved procedure and operating limitations in their
FAA-approved Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) or an FAA-approved Supplemental Type
Certificate (STC) may operate in accordance with those documents.
2. Operation with Modified or Removed Door. Any aircraft type, utility/normal category
model, that has had FAA-approved data used for skydiving operations or door removal can be
considered. It is the responsibility of the applicant to supply the FAA aviation safety inspector
(ASI) with any data necessary to have his or her aircraft approved to operate with a door
removed or a door modified to open/close in flight during jump operations. If the aircraft is
altered and operated in accordance with an STC, no other limitations are required.

[iflyforpie]

Oh.... and one more thing. If you do decide to go 'doors free', the right one is preferable. It gets a lot more breezy with the left one off, hence the reason why the J3 has its door on the right.

[photofly]

From: BJJudson@cessna.textron.com
To: Satanic Air Pirate
Subject: 172 Door removal for skydiving
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:01:26 -0500

Mr. Pirate,
Please reference Advisory Circular 105-2C. Appendix 2 says that the Cessna
172 may be operated with 1 cabin door removed.

Hope this helps,
Brandon Judson
Service Engineer Dept. 753
(316) 517-5800 Office
(316) 942-9006 Fax

but not with both doors removed. Very important to note that, according to a respected AME in these parts.

[KnownIce]

Didn't see the second half of your question addressed yet so I'll add that it basically flies the same with one door off. No need to do anything different.

[PilotDAR]

This superseded FAA AC has a list near the end, of aircraft which may be operated with a door removed. Note that some require an STC to do this. Others, I can assure you, will require a modification.

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section9/A ... fault.aspx

Do not fly a Cessna with two front doors removed. I have do it, and it is a bad idea, which I wil never do again.

It is most practical to remove the door across from the photographer, not the one on the same side. If I will fly solo, and photograph, I will remove the right door. If I am flying someone who is photographing. I will generally remove the left door, as they photo from the right seat, across in front of me. There is room, and this prevents the airflow grabbing their camera/lens.

If you're flying a first timer, you should also be able to watch their face. You don't want someone getting sick and your not noticing their composure.

In a Cessna, you will see little performance change with one door off. Avoid flying in the rain. I have LSTC'd my 150 for flight with either door removed, but not both, and with a specially made photo door installed.

[photofly]

Speaking as a photographer, it made most sense to me to remove the left door and sit on the left, so I could shoot over my left shoulder while the pilot flew from the right seat. Being on the left with the door off meant I could lean right out and get shots vertically downward. Wind buffetting isn't a problem if you use a sufficiently fast shutter speed.

One recent photo flight where I was the pilot the photographer actually asked to sit in the back so he could lean forward and shoot through the left window while I flew from the right seat.

[Colonel Sanders]

The POH for my Maule describes the approved
limitations for flight with the right door removed,
which I have done, to drop Navy SEALs at an
airshow. No big deal. Nice young men.

On various occasions I have removed the large
2-place canopies from Pitts for inverted jumper
dumping.

Here's Freddy in an N-reg S-2C, Martin in a Guatemalan
450hp Stearman, and me in an S-2B, about to do a
formation 1/2 roll to the inverted in Central America to
start the airshow.

Both Pitts have had their canopies removed so that the
meat bomb in the front seat can demonstrate gravity:



Rather silly, but it beats tennis. Never liked racquet sports.

[tractor driver]

Did it numerous times in C-120, 140, 152, 172, 175, 180, 185,,,, no issue,,
Ensure no loose objects.
g

[CFMartin]

Another thing you might to be advised is that this might be detrimental to the lining of the back/ceiling of the cabin: a little tear could turn into a huge one...