49 Ship formation fly-by

[Tinker]

The collective competency in here is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImNBuJW ... e=youtu.be

[ahramin]

If that's the one I think it is there was an article on it in Sport Aviation a couple months ago. Basically started as a small formation of RVs and they invited other chapters to show up and it snowballed from there.

[Colonel Sanders]

Scary as hell. That many airplanes jammed
into that small a space, everyone had better
do what they are supposed to do, or it's going
to be a giant furball.

What do you do if you are lead in that formation,
and you realize you are on a collision course
with other traffic?

You can't turn that formation. The outside guy
would be behind, the inside guy would be stalling
and falling out.

The radio would be a disaster.

Simply taking off that many aircraft, joining
them up, then separating and landing again
is going to be a huge undertaking requiring
considerable discipline and skill which is
completely absent from any civilian flying.

Best of British Luck.

[Tubthumper]

Simply taking off that many aircraft, joining
them up, then separating and landing again
is going to be a huge undertaking requiring
considerable discipline and skill which is
completely absent from any civilian flying.

Wrong. That formation didn't just happen by accident. Maybe you should visit Oshkosh sometime. If you do, may your British Luck never make it thru customs.

[Colonel Sanders]

Maybe you should visit Oshkosh sometime

Been going since the 1980's. Seen plenty of people crash
and die there over the decades.

My friend Gary Palmer was killed there in an RV in a taxiing
accident, for Christ's sake:



I guess I probably don't know as much as you do about
formation flying.

Oh yeah, member EAA, IAC, WBA.

[Tubthumper]

I've seen stuff like this and worse happen in military aviation, yet they're 'trained', aren't they? You can't just pin that previous stuff on 'being civilian'.
This guy is Military, trained, and wasn't even in formation when he did this. No, it wasn't a brake failure, either. "Environmental" failure? , gimme a friggin break.

[Colonel Sanders]

You misunderstand.

With military, you at least have a hope - but certainly no guarantee.

With civilians, it's a bit like immaculate conception. Theoretically
possible, perhaps, but practically unlikely.

[Schooner69A]

I posted this on another website in tribute to the members involved in the fly-by.

As a former member of a Canadian military aerobatic team, I am well aware of the difficulties involved in flying formation in an aircraft with a light wing loading. Formation flying is no easy task and the more aircraft you field, the harder becomes the job. To do so with forty-nine of Van's models, make it look good, and hit your TOT is outstanding performance and I take my hat off to all those who took part.

A heart felt "Bravo Zulu" to all.

I believe there are several ex-military members sprinkled through-out the team but I'm not sure of the exact number. However, with dedication, even plugs like me can be taught to fly formation; while unwieldy, a "balbo" of this sort probably had TFR protection and minimum turns prior to heading for center stage. According to the smoke, their formation skills look good. Admittedly, had an emergency arose, it may have been a case of "Sauve qui peut"; however, that would have been the case in a military mass formation also. There are some around who remember the famous massive RCAF flyby in Europe when the lead (dissimilar) aircraft called "Speedbrakes" resulting in pilots ceasing to fight for position and starting to fight for their lives.

I'd fly formation with these guys any time...

J

[Colonel Sanders]

pilots ceasing to fight for position and starting to fight for their lives

You understand.

But even a TFR/class F airspace is no guarantee of the
flight going according to plan. Many times I have flown
airshows only to see a lone single happily driving through
the closed airspace

If you only have an airplane (or two) driving around, some
idiot in a 172 who doesn't check NOTAMs is no big deal.

But you disrupt a 49 ship formation like that, people are
likely going to die. Maybe that just doesn't matter to
people here, like Gary Palmer getting chopped to bits.

That seems to be a common theme lately here on
AvCan - chopping up some tin and killing people isn't
a big deal. Ok, I'll go with the flow.

[Old Dog Flying]

As a 3 Wing Zweibrucken GCA controller, I had the privilege of "running" the last Sabre formation in Europe. Twenty Five Swords in a big diamond were handed off from 2 Wing at about 30 miles Nw of Zwei and it took one hell of a lot of airspace to line them up on runway 21 but I made it happen.

One guy left the formation because of low fuel or a hot date but the rest were then handed off to 4 Wing Baden for recovery

Barney GCA #13

[Schooner69A]

ODF:

Yah, sure! You ran a big formation AFTER I left the continent.

Contrary to what some of my "confreres" probably said, I WOULD have sobered up for the fly past. Honest.

(;>0)

John

[bmc]

This was the largest formation flight I saw. It was at an airshow in Payerne, Switzerland in 2004. The caption lists all of the military teams in the formation.

http://youtu.be/H62Hmkgv4cw

[AirFrame]

Scary as hell...Best of British Luck.

You know, I rather enjoy most of your posts, and I even learn something from time to time. But for someone who rails incessantly against bureaucrats harshing his mellow when it comes to aerobatics, I find this response to be rather surprising.

You sound just like them.

But you disrupt a 49 ship formation like that, people are likely going to die. Maybe that just doesn't matter to people here, like Gary Palmer getting chopped to bits.

Gary Palmer's death had nothing to do with formation flying... Why is it any more relevant than any other light aircraft accident this year?

[Colonel Sanders]

That was totally uncalled for.
Bandaid

[Old Dog Flying]

After that uncalled for bit of BS Mr Boyd I would suggest that you apologise. You may be the worlds best all around pilot but so was Harold Krier, Art Scholl, and a whole host of people with the same attitude, and they all made a mistake, one fatal mistake.

Rob: You can fly my wing any day

Barney

[Donald]

Time for another ban of AB. Strike 1: Hedley, strike 2: Colonel Sanders?


Gloating of your desire to urinate on someone's grave?

Really?


Mods?

[niss]

Enough with the personal attack. You really need to read the rules once more.
Bandaid

[AirFrame]

Apparently I missed some excitement. If it was something I said that offended the Colonel, then I do apologize. It was not my intent to raise a ruckus, I was just surprised at the Colonel's response to the video, and curious why this would bother him in the same way videos of his flying seem to bother Transport. I love his flying videos. I'd like to be able to fly aerobatics like that. Through his posts here and articles/stories on his website I thought I had an idea where he was coming from. Maybe not so much.

I have lost friends who were practising formation at the time. Good friends who despite their experience and training made brief mistakes that proved to be unrecoverable. Even so, each year I still participate in a Remembrance Day flypast to honour the memory of all of the aviators who have gone west before me, from military service through to private flying. I consider that the benefits by far outweigh the risks.

I just landed from a practise for this year's flypast. Once again, it was great fun, great training, and a great learning experience. Every pilot should do it.

[captcrunch2013]

That was totally uncalled for.
Bandaid

Note the RED, that's not Colonel Sanders, its another example of
excessive and unnecessary not to mention improper moderation
see all too often on this forum.

[TG]

This guy is Military, trained, and wasn't even in formation when he did this. No, it wasn't a brake failure, either. "Environmental" failure? , gimme a friggin break.

Unfair (witch hunt) remark.
You did not have all clues first hand to come up with your conclusion.

They did.
http://www.flyingmag.com/news/surprisin ... ay-overrun

The Air Combat Command Accident Investigation Board in Hampton, Virginia, said the pilot’s visual cues were completely obscured by fogging from the faulty ECS as he approached to land on the 8,000-foot runway. The board also noted that the pilot briefly considered ejecting but feared for the safety of EAA AirVenture spectators nearby.
...
Investigators noted that if not for the lack of outside visual references, the pilot could have come to a stop on the runway with about 1,000 feet to spare.

In meanwhile, Oshkosh 2010:

This guy is Civilian, trained, and wasn't even in formation when he did this. No, it wasn't a brake failure, either.

[Colonel Sanders]

After thinking about it for a while, I have changed
my opinion.

I think it's just great when civilians with little or no
formal training or qualifications attempt formation flying!

Two small airplanes carrying skydivers collided over Superior at dusk Saturday, causing the lead plane to break into pieces, with debris falling across a swath of southern sections of town.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/ ... id/282465/

“We were just kind of lucky ..."

That's the way to do it! Good job!!

[AirFrame]

I think it's just great when civilians with little or no formal training or qualifications attempt formation flying!

Good thing the 49 pilots in the original story that started this thread were all FAST-qualified as formation pilots.

[Colonel Sanders]

Reminds me. I had never picked up a guitar before,
and last weekend I took a course where I learned a
few chords and how to strum.

Now I'm ready to play Carnegie Hall!

[AirFrame]

Reminds me. I had never picked up a guitar before, and last weekend I took a course where I learned a few chords and how to strum.

I guess you needed something to pass the time while you were on sabbatical from AvCanada?

I don't understand why you can't comprehend that 49 people could learn to competently fly formation, nor why you would immediately assume that the training these 49 have received is inadequate. Is it just because you weren't hired to train them?

[Colonel Sanders]

It's hilarious that you think that formation
can be taught during a weekend course

http://www.pittspecials.com/movies/outsideloop.wmv

Now, I don't know as much about aviation as you do
(after all you're an RV pilot) but one of these days,
that huge formation of amateurs is going to go horribly
wrong.

Wait for it.