Student, instructor die in Vancouver plane crash - 2011

[iflyforpie]

That report should be required reading for anyone who wants to fly in the mountains. Some very good information in there... and at the price it cost it shouldn't go to waste.

[Shiny Side Up]

That report should be required reading for anyone who wants to fly in the mountains. Some very good information in there... and at the price it cost it shouldn't go to waste.

+1

Really makes you wonder why they just don't copy the New Zealand training requirements. The bit about the video recovered speaks volumes. If you set rules for yourself, don't break them. Ask Sparky. Oh wait, you can't.

[Rookie50]

Read the entire report. Tragic but good to learn from. In heavy singles I've been taught the 80 knots / 20 flaps turnback as the best method.

[captcrunch2013]

This is an "OLD" 2011 Crash and, the report makes good reading and appears to be well investigated without
the usual problem of being political.

The investigation really sounds impressive, used a simulator to find how fatal the error was.
It dissects Mountain flying and in particular, Canyon Turns, optical illusions, and the relevant slow flight / steep turns, considerations.

This is a must read for every new instructor or any pilot flying in mountains.

The report also shows that the instructor was yet again, another accident going to happen
despite incredible people skills, general instructing skills but had that underlying macho need
to show off and with unnecessary risk.
It shows me that he was probably in a habit of beating up mountain tops, ridge lines
and enjoying the incredible beauty of the area.

It's addictive. I remember flying along similar 10,000 ft mountain tops and I doubt that simulator
training can really make up for the addictive beauty of the terrain you are flying over and feeling
the mountain wave effects that have killed a lot of pilots and will continue to in the future.

This accident report is definitely one of the best, if not the best, most complete report
without political influences I've ever seen.

[LousyFisherman]

I'm sorry guys, this is nothing other than poor PDM.
Looks like an excellent day to go mountain flying. But....
44 pounds overweight, air temp of 26 degrees. Do you think takeoff may have been a little sluggish?
Flying a 90 degree track at 100 ft above the pass in a now legal but loaded to the walls 152? Now I know the 152 is over-powered compared to the dreaded 150 but really?
Entering a a 1700 foot wide canyon with 3100 foot walls at an altitude of less than 3200 feet? In a 152?

This accident was not due to lack of training or poor instruction. There are 2 primary rules to follow to remain safe flying in the mountains and these guys knowingly broke both of them multiple times.

Very sad.

Mountain Training Course:
Sparky Imesons book
- find the 3 errors
- remember Sparky died because he ignored his own advice
Weather
- you have to understand mountain weather, I don't know how to teach that, I grew up in the mountains so ....
Self Imposed Limits
- This was the hardest part for me. Determining what was a suitable risk and what was unreasonable. There are a lot of threads where people discuss their personal limits I think if someone collated all the discussions into an article discussing and explaining the thinking behind each limit it would be extremely helpful to pilots entering the mountains for the first time. I'm willing to do the work, but, I don't believe I am the best one given my lack of experience

I would not let the instructor who did a mountain checkout (to rent a 172) with me fly the 150 in the mountains. He would get in trouble. "What do you mean there is no more throttle?"

Sad
YMMV
LF

[Shiny Side Up]

I'm sorry guys, this is nothing other than poor PDM.

One might add that the "swiss cheese" model applies here. The accident comes on the heels of a chain of bad decisions rather than one spectacular mistake. The holes line up.