Ice Pilots Season 5 discussion...

[Blakey]

I like watching it to get a glimpse of Joe's car collection. Saw an early 70s green Camaro in the corner on show #2. Seems out of place for his collector car of preference, which is 1950s models.

The 71 Camaro is Mikey's.

[teacher]

If going to get a spray is expensive how much do delayed and cancelled flights cost? How many hours did they pay all those employees to load unload and reload the planes. I guess I have a simplistic view of things where I am but if you got ice, you go for a spray than complete the flight. Minor delay at best.

[shimmydampner]

What is this "go for a spray" you speak of?

[PositiveRate27]

A spray of de-ice fluid. A minor delay and a cost of doing business for every 704/705 in Canada, with one glaring exception...

[iflyforpie]

I guess when you don't have to pay anything for de-ice except fixed costs you are already bearing... maybe the costs of delays are bearable.

[teacher]

Not to mention that the aircraft is now unable to perform any other work until the original sched run is complete. Again, I am in the 704/705 world so these things are a no brainer and no question. Delays cost money and cancelled flights hurt the company. When I flew corporate charter we left it up to the client to decide whether they wanted to bear the cost of deicing. If they said no than into the hangar it went and we grabbed another coffee.

As for Buffalo Airways I'm looking at it from a lost productivity point of view. It might however be less than paying for a trip to the deice bay (or whatever they have in Yellowknife). Only Joe and Mikey can answer that question.

[shimmydampner]

A spray of de-ice fluid.

Yes, thank you, that part already made sense to me.
What doesn't make sense to me is the tendency for some pilots to find Buffalo Air so mind-bogglingly foreign to anything they're familiar with, yet they still assume that everything should happen the exact same way it does in their little corner of the world. Sure, in the corporate charter business it might be as simple as "go for a spray" or put it in the hangar. Does that mean it's necessarily that simple for a family business that drives old wrecks around north of 60?

[Donald]

Does that mean it's necessarily that simple for a family business that drives old wrecks around north of 60?

The thing is, every other 705 operator in that area has their own de-ice setup that does NOT require a rampie to blatantly disregard fall protection rules.

I guess Buffalo has an ops spec for dumb ramp practices?

That, and clearly Joe values his staff at a lower cost than the price of a de-ice truck. Too bad the low time pilot schmucks need that dc-3 or c-46 checkout so badly they won't just sue them when they fall off a plane!

[J31]

As for Buffalo Airways I'm looking at it from a lost productivity point of view. It might however be less than paying for a trip to the deice bay (or whatever they have in Yellowknife). Only Joe and Mikey can answer that question.

No de-ice bay (CDF) in Yellowknife. Each operator has their own setup.

[shimmydampner]

The thing is, every other 705 operator in that area has their own de-ice setup

Be that as it may, my comment had nothing to do with the merits or lack thereof of Buffalo ramp practices. J31 spelled out what I was trying to get at.
I just find some of the indignant commentary here to be mildly amusing and very telling. Regardless of whether what Buffalo does is right, wrong or just nonsense, a good number of people here would do well to realize that there is much more to the aviation industry as a whole, than just their own little cozy corner of it.

[Donald]

With all due respect shimmydampner, been there done that and smart enough to know what is dumb/illegal and what is not!!

[Big Pistons Forever]

How much freight flying is Buffalo actually doing with the Piston aircraft anymore ? From what I have heard things have really slowed down and it is the CL215 brokering and the NWT fire contract that is pretty much all that is happening these days.

[LuckyPilot]

I see Buffalo is advertising for ramp help, with the carrot of an eventual move to a flying position. Is it getting harder for them to find people willing to go this route? Most of my friends kids are now finding jobs without having to go this route.

[flyinhigh]

Let's not forget. That flying position is after you fall for the carrot of "the promotion to Flight Attendent".

[bverwegen]

Anybody watch tonight's episode?

I found it crazy that to ferry the aircraft with the gear issues they purposely left the gear locking pins in place to keep the gear down.

What would they have done had an engine failed on departure? I can't imagine the single engine climb on those things would be too great?

[Driving Rain]

-30 C, empty aircraft, frozen lake below them for 98% of the journey. They'd be ok.

[jet a1]

because all frozen lakes are just like hockey rinks.... just sayin.

[oldtimer]

As far as flying with the gear down, life with a ferry premit is a whole new world and that is why it is usually done VFR and always done with crew only. If an engine quits, you are in the same boat as any single engine airplane and besides, crews are expendable. Just look at what happens to the safety procedures when you are a cargo only airplane.
I also noticed they are now looking for a turbine DC 3 because, they claim, lack of fuel and parts.

[Driving Rain]

Old timer,

Joe told me he'd love to get a turbine conversion from these guys as he even got fly one for a bit. The cost is way less than a Basler. As of 2012 Baslers were going for 6.5 million.

http://www.bsasinternational.com/index. ... e-aircraft

Unfortunately they're not approved here in Canada. The company is South African so maybe the lack of approval had something to do with the apartheid era.?Although it's using PT 6 -67 Canuck engines. Looks like a pretty good sled on paper.

JetA1
Not because all lakes are like hockey rinks. Where would you rather put down if worst case were to present itself, trees and rocks or a relatively flat unobstructed surface? Just sayin!

[Taiser]

I liked how they brought back some older members. Didn't know Devin had quit to be a farmer, or that Audrey was flying again. Would be nice if they could put an entire episode together showing all the cast members over the years and what they are doing now!

[Tacoma]

Audrey flew the J31 for Swanberg after she left to also work as an FA for WJ. She's been at Air Creebec flying the King Air 100 rights seat since 2012.

Gord is on the Boeing at WJ.

[godsrcrazy]

Audrey flew the J31 for Swanberg after she left to also work as an FA for WJ. She's been at Air Creebec flying the King Air 100 rights seat since 2012.

Gord is on the Boeing at WJ.

Are we talking the same Gord that took the C-46 endorsement quit to go to First air to get his 737 rating and then quit within a couple months to go to West jet. Then Guys like DOC wine and cry about why people have to sign bonds.

[single_swine_herder]

Audrey flew the J31 for Swanberg after she left to also work as an FA for WJ. She's been at Air Creebec flying the King Air 100 rights seat since 2012.

Gord is on the Boeing at WJ.

Are we talking the same Gord that took the C-46 endorsement quit to go to First air to get his 737 rating and then quit within a couple months to go to West jet. Then Guys like DOC wine and cry about why people have to sign bonds.

Yup ..... during the Westjet interview, he should have used the opportunity to tell the selection team to their face that "It's people like you that are screwing up the industry for the young folks coming up" and then further explained that conclusion is based on having read comments on AvCanada, and they were screwing everything up by calling him for an interview. They really messed things up when .... based on what they saw and heard, had the nerve to offer him a job just to meet their own capitalist-driven corporate requirements without considering how it would affect the operations of First Air and Buffalo Airways.

If he had integrity, "Gord" should have turned down the professional advancement opportunity and remained at his First Air job for the rest of his life and been happy with being there forever. After all, who needs to change jobs more than once in their career?

Those "uppity" people with lofty career aspirations who accept better job offers when they come along are real piss-offs aren't they? If only they would recognize their place in the industry, others would have life a lot easier.

If only we had a super-strong national union that acted as an employment agency and based the staffing of each job in the country on seniority based upon date of licence issue, it would be a far, far better industry ..... wouldn't it?

[frozen solid]

Those "uppity" people with lofty career aspirations who accept better job offers when they come along are real piss-offs aren't they? If only they would recognize their place in the industry, others would have life a lot easier.

Honestly, singleswineherder, you're being deliberately obtuse. Don't you think that a guy should maybe stay at a company at least for a little while after having gone through their training system? I do. I think it would piss you off immensely if you hired a guy to fly your Single Swine, and after having burned a bunch of gas training him, he walked into your office in the middle of float season a month later and announced he got the minimum amount of DHC-3 time required by Harbour Air, so thanks very much for the training, see you in Vancouver. I think you would be annoyed indeed. You might be so annoyed that you would require the next guy to sign a contract of some kind. If the next guy broke that contract, then you'd be really really pissed off. At least, I would!

[single_swine_herder]

No Frozen ..... I'm not obtuse.

ob·tuse ( b-t s , -ty s , b-). adj. ob·tus·er, ob·tus·est. 1. a. Lacking quickness of perception or intellect. b. Characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity

In this example under discussion, the guy was at Buffalo since day one of his flying career, and like many people at companies all over the place had filed resumes with other operators trying to get on with a different level of professionalism or equipment, or better schedule, or location or any one of a hundred other reasons. As I understand it, there had been no responses.

He was offered what some may see as an upgrade to fly the '46 (I'd just see it as more cargo to load at minus 50 with zero support equipment.) So thinking that he was going to be at Buffalo for another who knows how long because there was no movement in the industry he accepts the upgrade .... presumably with no sense of guilt nor intent to deceive (despite Joe's on-camera act indicating the contrary)...... and rightfully so, he does the company training.

For discussion sake, should he have said to Buffalo ....."Oh, no thanks for the offer of the new airplane training, I've been hoping to go somewhere else sometime .... there's nothing on the go anywhere at the moment at any other company, but I just don't see Buffalo as the place where I want to be when I'm 63 and wondering what's going to happen to me when Joe fires me for the 97th time and I end up eating cat food and three day old bread from the dumpster behind the bakery, so therefore give the C-46 checkout to somebody else."

That response would have him next in line to be given every single crappy job that exists at Buffalo (and I'm sure there are many of those,) and he'd be fired not long after because "He's got a bad attitude."

So, then out of the blue and unexpectedly .... along comes First Air and offers him a 737 course, better schedule (or at least some kind of schedule at all instead of the expectation of 24/7 loyalty if the phone rings,) and more money. Do you actually expect him to say "No thanks" to that kind of opportunity? .... "No Mr First Air Chief Pilot, they spent 7.5 hours checking me out on a 70 year old airplane, and I owe it to them to stay even though they fire a guy every 14 days and then rehire him a week later as a matter of course .... maybe give me a call in a year or two if you are looking for 737 pilots again."

This isn't a lateral move like a jump from Single Otter in Uranium City to Single Otter in Hay River job...... it's more like a once in a lifetime chance to escape a life of aviation servitude aboard the aircraft equivalent of a clapped out slave ship plying the Atlantic in the 1700's. (Attempt at inducing a laugh intentional.)