doug ronan removed as director from copa
Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog
-
floatplaneflyer
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:33 am
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
How about this for Chicago style politics and intimidation. A person close to COPA told me recently that COPA President Psutka is demanding that Doug Ronan issue a public apology for his remarks about some of the board members and the President or he would be sued for defamation of character. Ronan should be suing Hayes and Psutka for remarks they have made about his motivation to speak out about the short sighted and poorly informed decisions the board has made. The members should demand Psutka and Hayes explain why they are spending $25000 of members money to fight Porter Airlines. Wait until every member's insurance rates go up when they renew with COPA because the board contracted with an agency that wrote such bad policies the underwriter withdrew from covering COPA policy's. The big announcement in "Copa Flight" about this new underwriter, AIG, didn't mention they had to scramble to find someone to cover COPA policies because the existing underwriter canceled their contract with COPA's new agency.
Last edited by floatplaneflyer on Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
That sounds like what I went through with a certain Executive Director who threatened to sue the poop out of me for defamation of character... libel and all kinds of other things...floatplaneflyer wrote:How about this for Chicago style politics and intimidation. One of the COPA officials told me recently that COPA President Psutka is demanding that Doug Ronan issue a public apology for his remarks about some of the board members and the President or he would be sued for defamation of character.
He also threatened to sue the association (which faltered to his demands for silence) and even got them to issue a public blanket approval for his actions. I remember being threatened directly and through the grapevine by others (association sponsors), up to an including telling me that my "future & aviation career" was on the line for allowing certain discussions on my forum without censoring and shutting people up. Guess what... The funny thing is: If you stay with the truth, you have nothing to fear. There is a lot of bark but very little bite. People appreciate honesty and conviction more than threats of lawsuits. My attitude: Better kill me on your first shot and don't hesitate when you have an opportunity to take me down. Our people need to move beyond being divided by technicalities and textual interpretation of that petition. COPA can count on hobby lawyers who are afraid to rock the boat. In the end, its a right vs. wrong issue. If we have a point, we will support Doug in any upcoming legal battle and its worth the time, money and effort... Let them sue. By the time its all out on the table, COPA will wish it had acted differently. Revenue is a powerful thing...
-
floatplaneflyer
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:33 am
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
I'm in. Where do I send the check...? This will be the easiest law suite to win in a long time. All settlements go to COPA.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
The only way copa is going to get the message is to stop their influx of money,cancel your membership & give them the reason why.I also can't see why anyone would join copa to pay up to 30% more for hull insurance as it would have cost me when I first asked for a quote.Last time I asked for a quote they replied with a 'we'll get back to you before your next renewal' - 2 renewals ago.
I cancelled my membership 2 weeks ago & asked for a refund - they only give refunds to people they don't want as I was told copa doesn't have a policy in place to refund membership dues.Keep the $50,I won't be a part of any'old boy's club' that won't include the members in their decisions(except to notify them in their rag later).
Daryl
I cancelled my membership 2 weeks ago & asked for a refund - they only give refunds to people they don't want as I was told copa doesn't have a policy in place to refund membership dues.Keep the $50,I won't be a part of any'old boy's club' that won't include the members in their decisions(except to notify them in their rag later).
Daryl
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
I think the only viable way forward here is for Doug to take COPA to court and force them to reinstate his directorship. He can then resign the directorship himself afterwards if he doesn't want to stick around.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Hmmm... Looks like the Association is winning by simply sitting the issue out. Sad days in hell, I thought they'd be serving cocktails here...
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Don't kid yourself both made a mistake and feelings were hurt bad.
Let it slide, nobody wins here by stirring wounds; best to try and 'let go' (on BOTH SIDES !!) otherwise 'too much' at stake. Conflict resolution thru mediation is the best option ... somone interpreting for both sides if all else fails.
People! Both sides have shown they are 'unable' in that regard, however 'most' have by now seen that it is not even a big enough deal (100 years from now it won't matter) ... not something to 'self destruct' a long-standing organization over.
Let it slide, nobody wins here by stirring wounds; best to try and 'let go' (on BOTH SIDES !!) otherwise 'too much' at stake. Conflict resolution thru mediation is the best option ... somone interpreting for both sides if all else fails.
People! Both sides have shown they are 'unable' in that regard, however 'most' have by now seen that it is not even a big enough deal (100 years from now it won't matter) ... not something to 'self destruct' a long-standing organization over.
-
floatplaneflyer
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:33 am
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
The organization is self destructing all on its own. COPA terminated one of the most knowledgeable directors, totally committed to improving general aviation in Canada when they couldn't admit they made a huge mistake with the insurance program and Psutka wanted headlines instead of a workable solution with Porter Airlines for general aviation access to Toronto City Center Airport.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
The best way to effect change in an organization like this is to get involved at your local level and if you feel strongly enough run for director. Frankly I suspect most positions run unopposed and simply doing a good speech for change prior to the vote will get you in.
-
floatplaneflyer
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:33 am
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
I would run for a directors' position, but they won't allow any vocal or opinionated directors from the States that know and understand Chicago back room political assassination strategy....
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Which is pretty much what I suggested two months ago in this thread, if the board wanted this to go away they should just shut up about it and ignore any and all correspondence on the subject. It seems to be working.jjbaker wrote:Hmmm... Looks like the Association is winning by simply sitting the issue out.
I don't like the issue being left open like this and unresolved, especially when there appears to be some scent of scandal here. But I think any sane person would have to agree after reading this thread that [it's not going to go anywhere*].
* Edit: A better choice of words here may be "not enough members care about the issue strongly enough for it to go anywhere."
Last edited by AirFrame on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
I respectfully agree... COPA needs lemmings to function while pulling stunts like this and get away with it.
Fortunately:
Fortunately:
-
H Christensen
- Rank 1
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:31 pm
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Changes to the COPA insurance program and the appearance of some kissing and
making-up at Billy Bishop. I am not assuming cause and effect, simply
observing that they are interesting developments, what?
making-up at Billy Bishop. I am not assuming cause and effect, simply
observing that they are interesting developments, what?
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
So what's the big deal about changing underwriters on the insurance program? AIG is now offering policies in Canada, and they weren't last time the contracts were all negotiated. Am I missing something? If so, please elaborate.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Kawartha Lakes Flying Club (Lindsay) COPA Flight 101 minutes November 6, 2013
Guest speaker, and current Chairman of COPA, Paul Hayes was introduced and a brief description of his lengthy 60 year aviation career was given by Flavelle Barrett. ...
Kerstin Kelly, along with 5 outside, non club member visitors,... requested the opportunity to address our guest speaker on the subject of Doug Ronan’s dismissal as a COPA director. ...Paul Hayes had indicated to the Executive prior to the meeting that full details of this issue had been conveyed by Paul directly to all COPA members and he was not prepared to discuss this publicly any further, particularly in this open forum. From COPA’s perspective the issue is closed. Limited further discussion on this issue occurred followed by a motion by Bill Fry and seconded by Al Darling to adjourn the meeting at 21:19hrs. Carried.
Jim Baldwin- Sec.
Kerstin's reply to the club:
As a founding member of Copa 101, and a Silver Copa family member, at a COPA meeting, with the Chairman of COPA present, I believe it was a totally appropriate time to ask for information about a COPA issue affecting our COPA director. The question was asked politely and respectfully and was clearly a request for information and clarification of a topic our members have not understood. This was made exceedingly clear by the show of hands indicating that the vast majority of members present at the meeting were in Favour of having the question asked and answered.
Why our elected local Director was thrown out and the method of his removal, should be of interest to members of this club and to all COPA members. If they are conscientious, moral and ethical, I would think they want to belong to an association that operates above board in a transparent, responsible and accountable manner. They should be willing and able to explain their actions and decisions to their members as well as clarify and answer any questions of its members. This is a free and democratic society and the organization should be based on democratic rules of conduct including free speech. COPA and our club must be based on the same values.
Rather than hear partial answers second and third hand, I wanted to hear what happened and why, directly from the parties involved. In my opinion, that would be the best way to learn the truth. If Paul Hayes did not want to answer the questions, he could have said so to me. He did appear to be starting to answer me before Flavelle Barrett, the COPA 101 President, rudely interrupted. Paul did not need to hide behind Flavelle. My question was clearly asking for Paul's side of the story. It should have been an easy one to answer for him, if there was no wrong doing on his part nor on the part of the COPA board.
I can assure you that COPA has not been seeming to be acting in good faith , nor in the members best interests. The fact that it refuses to answer any questions about the subject is further proof of the total mishandling of the issues and the slimy business practices it has apparently undertaken.
Paul Hayes, in all good conscience was morally and ethically obligated to answer my simple and direct question and, in no uncertain terms, did Flavelle have any right to prevent me from asking the question. He was 100 percent out of line and in complete conflict with his position as a President representing the rightful club members and their interests. His actions suggest that he acts as if thinks he owns the club and that we work for him. A president of a social club is elected there at the pleasure of its members and is responsible to its members and their interests. His behavior Wednesday night was in clear violation of those interests, and, if the executive of our club continues to act in such an autocratic manner, will surely doom our club to failure.
The executive of a club is not there to do all the thinking and decision making for the members and have meetings just to report ad nausem on those decisions and tell us what we need to do and how we need to think, behave and vote.
I strongly encourage each member to speak to Doug Ronan directly to ask him about his side of the situation as well as to ask COPA to explain their actions. I had suggested this to Flavelle and clearly he chose not to get himself informed or involved enough to get even the most basic of facts by talking to the characters involved in the situation.
Doug is really approachable and easy to talk to and is more than willing to discuss the facts. His number is 705-327-4730 and his email is doug@dougronan.com. He would welcome your call anytime. He is extremely informed about aviation in the country, about insurance matters, about the Toronto Island issues, and knows the parties involved personally. Don't be afraid to ask him to explain any of the issues you do not understand. Doug has been involved in Aviation his whole working life, is extremely connected, is bright and informed. He worked diligently to help save the Lindsay Airport, and was the one person who got us our COPA 101 status back. He has attended all our fly- ins and was the one who handed us our COPA 101 certificate and is in the center of our photo of that event. Doug is extremely passionate about aviation and is a great guy to know if you ever need help with anything. He does speak his mind if he believes there is an issue which is being mishandled and therefore not everyone loves him, which is something I can relate to. You may as well as look on the AVCANADA forum about Doug to get a bit of the COPA side of the issue, as they have been incredibly secretive and refuse to answer any of the emails, or questions asked by the members directly.
The minutes of the meeting resonate of having been dictated by Flavelle( I presume). All the guests were COPA members and potential club members and had been out numerous times to support saving the Airport. They are all well known in the aviation world. At anytime they would have been welcome members or guests of our club! Your description of them was totally rude, and uncalled for. The esteemed guests are from some powerful and influential circles and are well informed about COPA , the insurance industry , Toronto Island issues and know far more about what's going on than any of the members of our club. All were entirely polite, respectful, and entitled to be at a COPA event. I am disappointed that you would write about our guests in such a disrespectful manner.
Respectfully yours,
Please Note: Doug did not speak at the meeting, nor did he organize any guests, nor comments , questions or have anything to do with the above letter. Believe it or not, there are COPA members who pay attention, expect transparency of action and accountability of its leadership, and will speak up if they feel something smells.
Guest speaker, and current Chairman of COPA, Paul Hayes was introduced and a brief description of his lengthy 60 year aviation career was given by Flavelle Barrett. ...
Kerstin Kelly, along with 5 outside, non club member visitors,... requested the opportunity to address our guest speaker on the subject of Doug Ronan’s dismissal as a COPA director. ...Paul Hayes had indicated to the Executive prior to the meeting that full details of this issue had been conveyed by Paul directly to all COPA members and he was not prepared to discuss this publicly any further, particularly in this open forum. From COPA’s perspective the issue is closed. Limited further discussion on this issue occurred followed by a motion by Bill Fry and seconded by Al Darling to adjourn the meeting at 21:19hrs. Carried.
Jim Baldwin- Sec.
Kerstin's reply to the club:
As a founding member of Copa 101, and a Silver Copa family member, at a COPA meeting, with the Chairman of COPA present, I believe it was a totally appropriate time to ask for information about a COPA issue affecting our COPA director. The question was asked politely and respectfully and was clearly a request for information and clarification of a topic our members have not understood. This was made exceedingly clear by the show of hands indicating that the vast majority of members present at the meeting were in Favour of having the question asked and answered.
Why our elected local Director was thrown out and the method of his removal, should be of interest to members of this club and to all COPA members. If they are conscientious, moral and ethical, I would think they want to belong to an association that operates above board in a transparent, responsible and accountable manner. They should be willing and able to explain their actions and decisions to their members as well as clarify and answer any questions of its members. This is a free and democratic society and the organization should be based on democratic rules of conduct including free speech. COPA and our club must be based on the same values.
Rather than hear partial answers second and third hand, I wanted to hear what happened and why, directly from the parties involved. In my opinion, that would be the best way to learn the truth. If Paul Hayes did not want to answer the questions, he could have said so to me. He did appear to be starting to answer me before Flavelle Barrett, the COPA 101 President, rudely interrupted. Paul did not need to hide behind Flavelle. My question was clearly asking for Paul's side of the story. It should have been an easy one to answer for him, if there was no wrong doing on his part nor on the part of the COPA board.
I can assure you that COPA has not been seeming to be acting in good faith , nor in the members best interests. The fact that it refuses to answer any questions about the subject is further proof of the total mishandling of the issues and the slimy business practices it has apparently undertaken.
Paul Hayes, in all good conscience was morally and ethically obligated to answer my simple and direct question and, in no uncertain terms, did Flavelle have any right to prevent me from asking the question. He was 100 percent out of line and in complete conflict with his position as a President representing the rightful club members and their interests. His actions suggest that he acts as if thinks he owns the club and that we work for him. A president of a social club is elected there at the pleasure of its members and is responsible to its members and their interests. His behavior Wednesday night was in clear violation of those interests, and, if the executive of our club continues to act in such an autocratic manner, will surely doom our club to failure.
The executive of a club is not there to do all the thinking and decision making for the members and have meetings just to report ad nausem on those decisions and tell us what we need to do and how we need to think, behave and vote.
I strongly encourage each member to speak to Doug Ronan directly to ask him about his side of the situation as well as to ask COPA to explain their actions. I had suggested this to Flavelle and clearly he chose not to get himself informed or involved enough to get even the most basic of facts by talking to the characters involved in the situation.
Doug is really approachable and easy to talk to and is more than willing to discuss the facts. His number is 705-327-4730 and his email is doug@dougronan.com. He would welcome your call anytime. He is extremely informed about aviation in the country, about insurance matters, about the Toronto Island issues, and knows the parties involved personally. Don't be afraid to ask him to explain any of the issues you do not understand. Doug has been involved in Aviation his whole working life, is extremely connected, is bright and informed. He worked diligently to help save the Lindsay Airport, and was the one person who got us our COPA 101 status back. He has attended all our fly- ins and was the one who handed us our COPA 101 certificate and is in the center of our photo of that event. Doug is extremely passionate about aviation and is a great guy to know if you ever need help with anything. He does speak his mind if he believes there is an issue which is being mishandled and therefore not everyone loves him, which is something I can relate to. You may as well as look on the AVCANADA forum about Doug to get a bit of the COPA side of the issue, as they have been incredibly secretive and refuse to answer any of the emails, or questions asked by the members directly.
The minutes of the meeting resonate of having been dictated by Flavelle( I presume). All the guests were COPA members and potential club members and had been out numerous times to support saving the Airport. They are all well known in the aviation world. At anytime they would have been welcome members or guests of our club! Your description of them was totally rude, and uncalled for. The esteemed guests are from some powerful and influential circles and are well informed about COPA , the insurance industry , Toronto Island issues and know far more about what's going on than any of the members of our club. All were entirely polite, respectful, and entitled to be at a COPA event. I am disappointed that you would write about our guests in such a disrespectful manner.
Respectfully yours,
Please Note: Doug did not speak at the meeting, nor did he organize any guests, nor comments , questions or have anything to do with the above letter. Believe it or not, there are COPA members who pay attention, expect transparency of action and accountability of its leadership, and will speak up if they feel something smells.
Last edited by Docav8or on Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
I was an attendee of the Kawartha Lakes Flying Club General meeting under the "interested parties" wording of the "Notice of General membership meeting Wednesday November 6, 2013" that was forwarded to me. As a member of COPA since 1975 (according to my COPA 2014 membership card) and President of COPA Flight 110, I humbly suggest that I meet the qualications of an "interested party".
Contained In the Minutes of the meeting distributed by Jim Baldwin, Secretary of the Kawartha Lakes Flying Club (Lindsay) COPA Flight 101 wrote " Kerstin Kelly, along with 5 outside, non club member visitors, including Doug Ronan requested the opportunity to address the guest speaker on the subject of Doug Ronan`s dismissal as a COPA director". This is misleading at the very least in the wording of these Minutes, as it would suggest that Doug Ronan requested to speak, which he did not. It would also suggest that Kerstin Kelly was the only identified speaker, when I stood and very clearly identified myself and my position as President of COPA Flight 110 when I followed Kerstin Kelly in addressing the meeting and Paul Hayes.
Let it be clear, COPA Chair Paul Hayes was politely asked by myself to not only answeer questions about Doug Ronan`s dismissal as a COPA Director, but also the revoking of his COPA membership and elaboration on the reasons for the Board action. Unfortunately Chair Hayes remained silent.
No forum has been presented since Doug Ronan was effectively thrown off the COPA "bus" for COPA members who were disenfranchised in the removal of Doug Ronan, and none is scheduled that I have been made aware.
I would suggest that Paul Hayes conduct is both high handed and anti-democratic from a Board Chair who has served his Queen and Country in, amongst other reasons, the defense of democracy.
Mr. Hayes is no longer Brigadier General Paul Hayes. He is the Chairman of the Board of a not-for-profit association of members that has a President who serves at the pleasure of the Board that is made up of elected Board members from each region of the country elected by members in those regions. Following Doug Ronan`s removal, no by-election has be scheduled, nor has a replacement been appointed. The seat on the Board has just been left vacant...a highly undemocratic state of affairs.
From the Minutes of the Kawartha Lakes Flying Club November 6, 2013 meeting "From COPA`s perspective the issue is closed."
Maybe not!
Paul Armstrong
Contained In the Minutes of the meeting distributed by Jim Baldwin, Secretary of the Kawartha Lakes Flying Club (Lindsay) COPA Flight 101 wrote " Kerstin Kelly, along with 5 outside, non club member visitors, including Doug Ronan requested the opportunity to address the guest speaker on the subject of Doug Ronan`s dismissal as a COPA director". This is misleading at the very least in the wording of these Minutes, as it would suggest that Doug Ronan requested to speak, which he did not. It would also suggest that Kerstin Kelly was the only identified speaker, when I stood and very clearly identified myself and my position as President of COPA Flight 110 when I followed Kerstin Kelly in addressing the meeting and Paul Hayes.
Let it be clear, COPA Chair Paul Hayes was politely asked by myself to not only answeer questions about Doug Ronan`s dismissal as a COPA Director, but also the revoking of his COPA membership and elaboration on the reasons for the Board action. Unfortunately Chair Hayes remained silent.
No forum has been presented since Doug Ronan was effectively thrown off the COPA "bus" for COPA members who were disenfranchised in the removal of Doug Ronan, and none is scheduled that I have been made aware.
I would suggest that Paul Hayes conduct is both high handed and anti-democratic from a Board Chair who has served his Queen and Country in, amongst other reasons, the defense of democracy.
Mr. Hayes is no longer Brigadier General Paul Hayes. He is the Chairman of the Board of a not-for-profit association of members that has a President who serves at the pleasure of the Board that is made up of elected Board members from each region of the country elected by members in those regions. Following Doug Ronan`s removal, no by-election has be scheduled, nor has a replacement been appointed. The seat on the Board has just been left vacant...a highly undemocratic state of affairs.
From the Minutes of the Kawartha Lakes Flying Club November 6, 2013 meeting "From COPA`s perspective the issue is closed."
Maybe not!
Paul Armstrong
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Glad there is still some pressure being applied to this issue...
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
To me it looks as if sitting the problem out is the chosen way.
The King is not prepared to speak with the peasants, hence the peasants must shut up.
The stifling of discussions is really often the only way to prevent such peasant mutinies.
How fun would it be to be the fly on the wall at one of these esteemed board clown meetings...
...they must be slapping each other silly for allowing this shame to come out.
Its really unbelievable and its a huge shame.
What in the world happened to serving on a board of directors when you have to become such an arrogant schmuck?
The King is not prepared to speak with the peasants, hence the peasants must shut up.
The stifling of discussions is really often the only way to prevent such peasant mutinies.
How fun would it be to be the fly on the wall at one of these esteemed board clown meetings...
...they must be slapping each other silly for allowing this shame to come out.
Its really unbelievable and its a huge shame.
What in the world happened to serving on a board of directors when you have to become such an arrogant schmuck?
-
ScreaminBanshee
- Rank 1
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:17 pm
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Hello everyone,
I have read this thread in its entirety because I too have issues with COPA. First off, I would like to comment to the people who have given up their memberships. I too have struggled with whether I want to keep my membership going especially when I feel I get very little out of it. I have decided to stay a member for the following reasons. If everyone who feels there needs to be change in this organization leaves, then all there will be left is sheep that will follow COPA to its destruction. If we want change, we need to be involved because that is the best place to be to incite it. Quitting is the easy way out and will leave our country ultimately with no true voice. AOPA and EAA as much as I would like them to be involved in our interests, they are not.
Canada has a rich aviation heritage and we truly do enjoy some great things. Sure nothing is perfect but the ties to aircraft in this country are strong and deep and we must keep it this way. One visit to Tom Hendricks’ museum will show you that. Even shows like Ice Pilots (As ridiculous as it can be at times) show that in Canada there is still an age of aviation that is surviving, living history. Unfortunately, our living history is threatened all the time. Airport closures, opposition to aviation infrastructure, high fuel prices, declining membership etc. all threaten this. There is only one group in Canada who tries (Albeit not as well as we like) to tackle these issues and that is COPA.
We all have issues with the way COPA is run and this is by far not a pro-COPA comment. My biggest worry is the people who are passionate about aviation getting frustrated by bureaucracy and leaving. Typically the most passionate people are younger and this is a generation we can’t afford to lose. A better plan of approach is to get MORE involved. Get your name out there. Get people to recognize who you are. By demonstrating your passion and your integrity people will follow what you have to say. Just like Doug has obviously done. Of course this is way harder but the people who TRULY care will do it. Our only other option is to start a new group completely from scratch and I don’t think there is anyone who thinks that will be easier than just getting involved with COPA more and changing from the inside.
I, for one, get too passionate. I have sent some letters and wrote abrasive comments when I should have kept myself in check. It is easy to do. I have a hard time with long time COPA members who stand up and speak against new private aviation development while guys like Doug are thrown aside. I have trouble with a newspaper that has very little to offer for the price tag (The only articles I find interesting are the enforcement section). I have trouble with COPA not seeming to listen to members.
I too have gotten the “we need more young blood” speech right after I heard the most rigid, self-centred, closed minded comments. It turned me off right away. They people I have talked to want young blood as long as they are malleable and conform to old ideas.
Personally, I think COPA’s biggest issue (And ours if we want change) is that they fail to retain young pilots (Under 30 years old). COPA has almost nothing to offer the younger generation. Most young pilots are commercial pilots. They can’t afford to fly recreationally. They fly for a living. When they get a cheap newspaper that’s cover article is about doing a “long cross country” of 300nm they laugh right at it. How can an organization claim to be in touch with the younger generation when they claim a long cross country is 300nm and some of these young pilots are flying 4000nm cross countries for work. How do you bridge the gap between people who fly for a living and can’t afford to recreationally fly and the recreational fliers? I continue to see comments about the need to inject young blood into flying organizations, but the fact seems to be that though this need exists, it does not seem to have become an actuality. I am a 26 year old private pilot. My wife is a 25 year old commercial pilot with an ATPL. Between the two of us we know over 100 pilots under 30 year old who are out there, but not one of them that I personally know, is involved in a flying organization chapter of any sort that I am aware of, except for myself.
So why are none of these young pilots in clubs? Our first problem with injecting young blood into the organization is that no outsiders know where they are or anything about them. You may have a fly in breakfast or something hosted by your chapter, but the only people that hear about it are other chapters. This lack of outreach has a big impact. When I was living in my home town I was interested in joining a chapter or club. I found the phone number for the president of the local COPA chapter. I called him up and he briefly told me there was a meeting the first Tuesday of every month at the Air Force Association building. He did not sound excited or inviting and so when it got closer to the date, I forgot all about it. I like to think that I might have ended up at that meeting if I was given an enthusiastic invitation, and if my contact information was received with a subsequent phone call a few days ahead of time to remind me about the meeting, plus a reaffirmation that they would want me there. I think there is a good chance I would have been there. But the root of the problem is that everybody who wants to join a club has to first WANT to join and then has to go through the process of finding that club. There are programs all over Canada that are full of young people who fly or want to fly. Namely, programs like the Royal Canadian Air Cadets (probably has the most successful pilot licensing program for teens in the world) and many flight college programs across the country. How many chapters have ever approached the leaders of these programs and spoken to the youth and young adults about their organization? I think that number is probably less than 1%. In reality, you are only going to get chapter growth from the flight college programs, but it is good to instill the seeds early into the teen programs as well. There are literally thousands of 20 year olds learning to fly across the US and Canada right now, who are in commercial college based flight programs. Do you think this next generation who has clearly demonstrated their passion for flying may want to be involved in a program full of like-minded individuals? I would like to believe that there is a good chance. It therefore would be great if a couple of proactive members actually came and gave a presentation for what COPA is all about. Don’t make the young pilots find the Chapter; show them where it is.
When I relocated to my current city, I joined a COPA Chapter. When I asked my wife if she wanted to come to one of the meetings with me, she crinkled up here nose and said, “I don’t want to go to an old boys club and talk to a bunch of crusty old guys. Half of them are so out of touch with the type of flying I do, yet try to argue with me when I try to talk to them about the stuff I do every day at my job.” I am paraphrasing a bit but you get the point. The Chapter has ZERO to offer her. What can we do to offer the younger generation value to their membership? First of all, we need to have an open mind. New members have new opinions and the students in these flight programs are highly trained in Air Law. Maybe members have never heard of what they are talking about but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I have heard of other chapters reducing the rate for younger than 30 year olds to $10. That is beside the point. To them it is still a wasted $10. Before we cut our membership rates, why don’t we increase our Chapter membership value? For example, when I first went to my new Chapters meeting, I had to go out of MY way to talk to people and meet acquaintances. If I didn’t make that move, I would have sat in the corner and not talked to anyone all night. I am a very outgoing guy so this was easy for me, but may not be as easy for the next guy. It is easy to add value to a new membership; you need to make new members feel welcome. I mean really welcome. Don’t just say, “Hi” and walk away. Talk to them; ask them about their flying experience, what they are flying now, and what they want to fly. I understand that with younger people, it may be hard to find engaging topics due to the age gap but they are there because they like airplanes! And you like airplanes too, so you have a whole breadth of topics to talk about now.
I would go as far as to say that new members need to be assigned a flying veteran member as a mentor. A one on one contact they can ask questions to, a mentor who will call them to remind them to come, a mentor who will call them midweek and say, “I’m going for a spin, you want to jump in?” Don’t split fuel costs or anything for these new members. You were going flying anyway so take them for the trip. If they offer to pay for some gas, so be it. A young person will have a lot of expenses between tuition payments and higher than ever living costs. You don’t want them to say they turn down a ride because they can’t afford it. One day they will be able to afford it and I would bet my bottom dollar, they will pay it forward to the next generation. Do you think a new member who gets to tag along with a member who is going flying anyway, getting a couple of free flights a month, would see some value in membership? I sure do. If you don’t have a plane but you have a project, maybe you can invite them over and show them what a cleco is and how to buck rivets. It takes very little effort on the Chapter members to make the new members feel appreciated. Plus an extra set of hands is sometimes great to have.
I find it amazing that pilots who plan every aspect of a flight just want new pilots to join their Chapters and wonder why they aren’t. We need to approach this recruitment like we would build an airplane. You don’t just start throwing plane like pieces together and hope it flies. No, you need to sit down and think about what you want that plane to do. Once you establish that, you sharpen your pencil and you start to design the plane and get a solid plan together. Once the plan is on paper and everything checks out, you start to implement your design, ordering the tools and material you need to do the job properly. You start to assemble your plan and check the quality as you go, while learning from mistakes. So I guess I really am challenging everyone to start putting a plan together. Spread the word of what ideas are working and what ideas aren’t. I feel that a lot of members talk about wanting younger members but not many are actually doing something. Maybe we all need to put our heads together and brainstorm on how we can make improvements and get more young people involved.
Once the young people are involved they are the ones who will drive the change to turn COPA into a proactive organisation.
Sorry this went a bit long. It kind turned into a rant. Thanks for reading if you made it this far. All I want is a healthy GA movement.
I have read this thread in its entirety because I too have issues with COPA. First off, I would like to comment to the people who have given up their memberships. I too have struggled with whether I want to keep my membership going especially when I feel I get very little out of it. I have decided to stay a member for the following reasons. If everyone who feels there needs to be change in this organization leaves, then all there will be left is sheep that will follow COPA to its destruction. If we want change, we need to be involved because that is the best place to be to incite it. Quitting is the easy way out and will leave our country ultimately with no true voice. AOPA and EAA as much as I would like them to be involved in our interests, they are not.
Canada has a rich aviation heritage and we truly do enjoy some great things. Sure nothing is perfect but the ties to aircraft in this country are strong and deep and we must keep it this way. One visit to Tom Hendricks’ museum will show you that. Even shows like Ice Pilots (As ridiculous as it can be at times) show that in Canada there is still an age of aviation that is surviving, living history. Unfortunately, our living history is threatened all the time. Airport closures, opposition to aviation infrastructure, high fuel prices, declining membership etc. all threaten this. There is only one group in Canada who tries (Albeit not as well as we like) to tackle these issues and that is COPA.
We all have issues with the way COPA is run and this is by far not a pro-COPA comment. My biggest worry is the people who are passionate about aviation getting frustrated by bureaucracy and leaving. Typically the most passionate people are younger and this is a generation we can’t afford to lose. A better plan of approach is to get MORE involved. Get your name out there. Get people to recognize who you are. By demonstrating your passion and your integrity people will follow what you have to say. Just like Doug has obviously done. Of course this is way harder but the people who TRULY care will do it. Our only other option is to start a new group completely from scratch and I don’t think there is anyone who thinks that will be easier than just getting involved with COPA more and changing from the inside.
I, for one, get too passionate. I have sent some letters and wrote abrasive comments when I should have kept myself in check. It is easy to do. I have a hard time with long time COPA members who stand up and speak against new private aviation development while guys like Doug are thrown aside. I have trouble with a newspaper that has very little to offer for the price tag (The only articles I find interesting are the enforcement section). I have trouble with COPA not seeming to listen to members.
I too have gotten the “we need more young blood” speech right after I heard the most rigid, self-centred, closed minded comments. It turned me off right away. They people I have talked to want young blood as long as they are malleable and conform to old ideas.
Personally, I think COPA’s biggest issue (And ours if we want change) is that they fail to retain young pilots (Under 30 years old). COPA has almost nothing to offer the younger generation. Most young pilots are commercial pilots. They can’t afford to fly recreationally. They fly for a living. When they get a cheap newspaper that’s cover article is about doing a “long cross country” of 300nm they laugh right at it. How can an organization claim to be in touch with the younger generation when they claim a long cross country is 300nm and some of these young pilots are flying 4000nm cross countries for work. How do you bridge the gap between people who fly for a living and can’t afford to recreationally fly and the recreational fliers? I continue to see comments about the need to inject young blood into flying organizations, but the fact seems to be that though this need exists, it does not seem to have become an actuality. I am a 26 year old private pilot. My wife is a 25 year old commercial pilot with an ATPL. Between the two of us we know over 100 pilots under 30 year old who are out there, but not one of them that I personally know, is involved in a flying organization chapter of any sort that I am aware of, except for myself.
So why are none of these young pilots in clubs? Our first problem with injecting young blood into the organization is that no outsiders know where they are or anything about them. You may have a fly in breakfast or something hosted by your chapter, but the only people that hear about it are other chapters. This lack of outreach has a big impact. When I was living in my home town I was interested in joining a chapter or club. I found the phone number for the president of the local COPA chapter. I called him up and he briefly told me there was a meeting the first Tuesday of every month at the Air Force Association building. He did not sound excited or inviting and so when it got closer to the date, I forgot all about it. I like to think that I might have ended up at that meeting if I was given an enthusiastic invitation, and if my contact information was received with a subsequent phone call a few days ahead of time to remind me about the meeting, plus a reaffirmation that they would want me there. I think there is a good chance I would have been there. But the root of the problem is that everybody who wants to join a club has to first WANT to join and then has to go through the process of finding that club. There are programs all over Canada that are full of young people who fly or want to fly. Namely, programs like the Royal Canadian Air Cadets (probably has the most successful pilot licensing program for teens in the world) and many flight college programs across the country. How many chapters have ever approached the leaders of these programs and spoken to the youth and young adults about their organization? I think that number is probably less than 1%. In reality, you are only going to get chapter growth from the flight college programs, but it is good to instill the seeds early into the teen programs as well. There are literally thousands of 20 year olds learning to fly across the US and Canada right now, who are in commercial college based flight programs. Do you think this next generation who has clearly demonstrated their passion for flying may want to be involved in a program full of like-minded individuals? I would like to believe that there is a good chance. It therefore would be great if a couple of proactive members actually came and gave a presentation for what COPA is all about. Don’t make the young pilots find the Chapter; show them where it is.
When I relocated to my current city, I joined a COPA Chapter. When I asked my wife if she wanted to come to one of the meetings with me, she crinkled up here nose and said, “I don’t want to go to an old boys club and talk to a bunch of crusty old guys. Half of them are so out of touch with the type of flying I do, yet try to argue with me when I try to talk to them about the stuff I do every day at my job.” I am paraphrasing a bit but you get the point. The Chapter has ZERO to offer her. What can we do to offer the younger generation value to their membership? First of all, we need to have an open mind. New members have new opinions and the students in these flight programs are highly trained in Air Law. Maybe members have never heard of what they are talking about but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I have heard of other chapters reducing the rate for younger than 30 year olds to $10. That is beside the point. To them it is still a wasted $10. Before we cut our membership rates, why don’t we increase our Chapter membership value? For example, when I first went to my new Chapters meeting, I had to go out of MY way to talk to people and meet acquaintances. If I didn’t make that move, I would have sat in the corner and not talked to anyone all night. I am a very outgoing guy so this was easy for me, but may not be as easy for the next guy. It is easy to add value to a new membership; you need to make new members feel welcome. I mean really welcome. Don’t just say, “Hi” and walk away. Talk to them; ask them about their flying experience, what they are flying now, and what they want to fly. I understand that with younger people, it may be hard to find engaging topics due to the age gap but they are there because they like airplanes! And you like airplanes too, so you have a whole breadth of topics to talk about now.
I would go as far as to say that new members need to be assigned a flying veteran member as a mentor. A one on one contact they can ask questions to, a mentor who will call them to remind them to come, a mentor who will call them midweek and say, “I’m going for a spin, you want to jump in?” Don’t split fuel costs or anything for these new members. You were going flying anyway so take them for the trip. If they offer to pay for some gas, so be it. A young person will have a lot of expenses between tuition payments and higher than ever living costs. You don’t want them to say they turn down a ride because they can’t afford it. One day they will be able to afford it and I would bet my bottom dollar, they will pay it forward to the next generation. Do you think a new member who gets to tag along with a member who is going flying anyway, getting a couple of free flights a month, would see some value in membership? I sure do. If you don’t have a plane but you have a project, maybe you can invite them over and show them what a cleco is and how to buck rivets. It takes very little effort on the Chapter members to make the new members feel appreciated. Plus an extra set of hands is sometimes great to have.
I find it amazing that pilots who plan every aspect of a flight just want new pilots to join their Chapters and wonder why they aren’t. We need to approach this recruitment like we would build an airplane. You don’t just start throwing plane like pieces together and hope it flies. No, you need to sit down and think about what you want that plane to do. Once you establish that, you sharpen your pencil and you start to design the plane and get a solid plan together. Once the plan is on paper and everything checks out, you start to implement your design, ordering the tools and material you need to do the job properly. You start to assemble your plan and check the quality as you go, while learning from mistakes. So I guess I really am challenging everyone to start putting a plan together. Spread the word of what ideas are working and what ideas aren’t. I feel that a lot of members talk about wanting younger members but not many are actually doing something. Maybe we all need to put our heads together and brainstorm on how we can make improvements and get more young people involved.
Once the young people are involved they are the ones who will drive the change to turn COPA into a proactive organisation.
Sorry this went a bit long. It kind turned into a rant. Thanks for reading if you made it this far. All I want is a healthy GA movement.
-
I_Drive_Planes
- Rank 5
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Prince George
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Spot on ScreaminBanshee. COPA and AOPA constantly lament the greying of general aviation and the decline of flying clubs but can't seem to come up with any better excuse than "young people like computers and cell phones too much to have time for flying!" or "the economy!"
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
Hi There, this is my first posting on this site although I have been following it since its inception. First of all let me say you are dead on with your comments. You are right COPA has done nothing positive to attract new members. As you probably can tell from my user name I am a member of COPA and a director and probably will get slapped on the wrist by some other members for responding to your post. I may be an "old boy" but young at heart. I have tried on my own to recruit younger members but found that we have no real relevance to the younger flyers. On every commercial air trip I take, I make it a point to introduce myself to the crew and invite them to come back to their flying roots. I have asked co-op students that work at our airport and given them a copy of our "magazine" and asked for their critique. Unfortunately, not much in it interests them. I have tried encouraging my former air cadets to become interested, but even the graduates of the scholarship program find COPA dull. If you would like to see a change, now is the time to do something. Ontario and Quebec are holding elections for regional directors. Why not run for a position on the board and see if you can change the attitude and minds of some of these old fogies. If I get re-elected this term I would really like to work with young blood. If you figure out who I am from my user signature, look in the COPA paper for my phone number and please give me a call.ScreaminBanshee wrote:Hello everyone,
I have read this thread in its entirety because I too have issues with COPA. First off, I would like to comment to the people who have given up their memberships. I too have struggled with whether I want to keep my membership going especially when I feel I get very little out of it. I have decided to stay a member for the following reasons. If everyone who feels there needs to be change in this organization leaves, then all there will be left is sheep that will follow COPA to its destruction. If we want change, we need to be involved because that is the best place to be to incite it. Quitting is the easy way out and will leave our country ultimately with no true voice. AOPA and EAA as much as I would like them to be involved in our interests, they are not.
Canada has a rich aviation heritage and we truly do enjoy some great things. Sure nothing is perfect but the ties to aircraft in this country are strong and deep and we must keep it this way. One visit to Tom Hendricks’ museum will show you that. Even shows like Ice Pilots (As ridiculous as it can be at times) show that in Canada there is still an age of aviation that is surviving, living history. Unfortunately, our living history is threatened all the time. Airport closures, opposition to aviation infrastructure, high fuel prices, declining membership etc. all threaten this. There is only one group in Canada who tries (Albeit not as well as we like) to tackle these issues and that is COPA.
We all have issues with the way COPA is run and this is by far not a pro-COPA comment. My biggest worry is the people who are passionate about aviation getting frustrated by bureaucracy and leaving. Typically the most passionate people are younger and this is a generation we can’t afford to lose. A better plan of approach is to get MORE involved. Get your name out there. Get people to recognize who you are. By demonstrating your passion and your integrity people will follow what you have to say. Just like Doug has obviously done. Of course this is way harder but the people who TRULY care will do it. Our only other option is to start a new group completely from scratch and I don’t think there is anyone who thinks that will be easier than just getting involved with COPA more and changing from the inside.
I, for one, get too passionate. I have sent some letters and wrote abrasive comments when I should have kept myself in check. It is easy to do. I have a hard time with long time COPA members who stand up and speak against new private aviation development while guys like Doug are thrown aside. I have trouble with a newspaper that has very little to offer for the price tag (The only articles I find interesting are the enforcement section). I have trouble with COPA not seeming to listen to members.
I too have gotten the “we need more young blood” speech right after I heard the most rigid, self-centred, closed minded comments. It turned me off right away. They people I have talked to want young blood as long as they are malleable and conform to old ideas.
Personally, I think COPA’s biggest issue (And ours if we want change) is that they fail to retain young pilots (Under 30 years old). COPA has almost nothing to offer the younger generation. Most young pilots are commercial pilots. They can’t afford to fly recreationally. They fly for a living. When they get a cheap newspaper that’s cover article is about doing a “long cross country” of 300nm they laugh right at it. How can an organization claim to be in touch with the younger generation when they claim a long cross country is 300nm and some of these young pilots are flying 4000nm cross countries for work. How do you bridge the gap between people who fly for a living and can’t afford to recreationally fly and the recreational fliers? I continue to see comments about the need to inject young blood into flying organizations, but the fact seems to be that though this need exists, it does not seem to have become an actuality. I am a 26 year old private pilot. My wife is a 25 year old commercial pilot with an ATPL. Between the two of us we know over 100 pilots under 30 year old who are out there, but not one of them that I personally know, is involved in a flying organization chapter of any sort that I am aware of, except for myself.
So why are none of these young pilots in clubs? Our first problem with injecting young blood into the organization is that no outsiders know where they are or anything about them. You may have a fly in breakfast or something hosted by your chapter, but the only people that hear about it are other chapters. This lack of outreach has a big impact. When I was living in my home town I was interested in joining a chapter or club. I found the phone number for the president of the local COPA chapter. I called him up and he briefly told me there was a meeting the first Tuesday of every month at the Air Force Association building. He did not sound excited or inviting and so when it got closer to the date, I forgot all about it. I like to think that I might have ended up at that meeting if I was given an enthusiastic invitation, and if my contact information was received with a subsequent phone call a few days ahead of time to remind me about the meeting, plus a reaffirmation that they would want me there. I think there is a good chance I would have been there. But the root of the problem is that everybody who wants to join a club has to first WANT to join and then has to go through the process of finding that club. There are programs all over Canada that are full of young people who fly or want to fly. Namely, programs like the Royal Canadian Air Cadets (probably has the most successful pilot licensing program for teens in the world) and many flight college programs across the country. How many chapters have ever approached the leaders of these programs and spoken to the youth and young adults about their organization? I think that number is probably less than 1%. In reality, you are only going to get chapter growth from the flight college programs, but it is good to instill the seeds early into the teen programs as well. There are literally thousands of 20 year olds learning to fly across the US and Canada right now, who are in commercial college based flight programs. Do you think this next generation who has clearly demonstrated their passion for flying may want to be involved in a program full of like-minded individuals? I would like to believe that there is a good chance. It therefore would be great if a couple of proactive members actually came and gave a presentation for what COPA is all about. Don’t make the young pilots find the Chapter; show them where it is.
When I relocated to my current city, I joined a COPA Chapter. When I asked my wife if she wanted to come to one of the meetings with me, she crinkled up here nose and said, “I don’t want to go to an old boys club and talk to a bunch of crusty old guys. Half of them are so out of touch with the type of flying I do, yet try to argue with me when I try to talk to them about the stuff I do every day at my job.” I am paraphrasing a bit but you get the point. The Chapter has ZERO to offer her. What can we do to offer the younger generation value to their membership? First of all, we need to have an open mind. New members have new opinions and the students in these flight programs are highly trained in Air Law. Maybe members have never heard of what they are talking about but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I have heard of other chapters reducing the rate for younger than 30 year olds to $10. That is beside the point. To them it is still a wasted $10. Before we cut our membership rates, why don’t we increase our Chapter membership value? For example, when I first went to my new Chapters meeting, I had to go out of MY way to talk to people and meet acquaintances. If I didn’t make that move, I would have sat in the corner and not talked to anyone all night. I am a very outgoing guy so this was easy for me, but may not be as easy for the next guy. It is easy to add value to a new membership; you need to make new members feel welcome. I mean really welcome. Don’t just say, “Hi” and walk away. Talk to them; ask them about their flying experience, what they are flying now, and what they want to fly. I understand that with younger people, it may be hard to find engaging topics due to the age gap but they are there because they like airplanes! And you like airplanes too, so you have a whole breadth of topics to talk about now.
I would go as far as to say that new members need to be assigned a flying veteran member as a mentor. A one on one contact they can ask questions to, a mentor who will call them to remind them to come, a mentor who will call them midweek and say, “I’m going for a spin, you want to jump in?” Don’t split fuel costs or anything for these new members. You were going flying anyway so take them for the trip. If they offer to pay for some gas, so be it. A young person will have a lot of expenses between tuition payments and higher than ever living costs. You don’t want them to say they turn down a ride because they can’t afford it. One day they will be able to afford it and I would bet my bottom dollar, they will pay it forward to the next generation. Do you think a new member who gets to tag along with a member who is going flying anyway, getting a couple of free flights a month, would see some value in membership? I sure do. If you don’t have a plane but you have a project, maybe you can invite them over and show them what a cleco is and how to buck rivets. It takes very little effort on the Chapter members to make the new members feel appreciated. Plus an extra set of hands is sometimes great to have.
I find it amazing that pilots who plan every aspect of a flight just want new pilots to join their Chapters and wonder why they aren’t. We need to approach this recruitment like we would build an airplane. You don’t just start throwing plane like pieces together and hope it flies. No, you need to sit down and think about what you want that plane to do. Once you establish that, you sharpen your pencil and you start to design the plane and get a solid plan together. Once the plan is on paper and everything checks out, you start to implement your design, ordering the tools and material you need to do the job properly. You start to assemble your plan and check the quality as you go, while learning from mistakes. So I guess I really am challenging everyone to start putting a plan together. Spread the word of what ideas are working and what ideas aren’t. I feel that a lot of members talk about wanting younger members but not many are actually doing something. Maybe we all need to put our heads together and brainstorm on how we can make improvements and get more young people involved.
Once the young people are involved they are the ones who will drive the change to turn COPA into a proactive organisation.
Sorry this went a bit long. It kind turned into a rant. Thanks for reading if you made it this far. All I want is a healthy GA movement.
Sincerely,
av8rphil
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
GREAT post SB, glad you're passionate enough to write that much!ScreaminBanshee wrote:Hello everyone,
SNIP!
So I guess I really am challenging everyone to start putting a plan together. Spread the word of what ideas are working and what ideas aren’t. I feel that a lot of members talk about wanting younger members but not many are actually doing something. Maybe we all need to put our heads together and brainstorm on how we can make improvements and get more young people involved.
Once the young people are involved they are the ones who will drive the change to turn COPA into a proactive organization.
Sorry this went a bit long. It kind turned into a rant. Thanks for reading if you made it this far. All I want is a healthy GA movement.
I belong to two aviation organizations that have the same aging issue and have been one of the youngest members for a number of years but we haven't filled in anyone below and I don't like where that's leading. The key to renewal and getting more and younger members involved is to bring in the critical mass of younger members and encourage them to take the organizations in their "new" direction. The older crowd might not find that so comfortable but that's going to be part of the evolution or the group will wither away. There has to be renewal! I have seen that be stifled in another group, a fresh face came in and did a great job with an event with bigger plans for the next time but was discouraged by the old guard because it was change and as a result backed away for other things. The aviating community cannot afford to let that happen!
The idea to pair a younger member with a more experienced (see how I didn't say older LOL!) member is great, it's crazy but I find it hard to find non-flying friends to go flying on a moments notice but if you have a "buddy" that understands and is motivated then that's a win for both. Especially if you pick up the tab because younger budgets don't always have loose cash.
BTW, membership cost is NOT a make or break issue. One of the orgs. I belong to doesn't charge chapter dues while the other has no problem even from members that show up quite infrequently but believe in the chapter. OK, here's an idea on dues, offer your younger members or perhaps your members who are not yet pilots a freebie but one of the rites of passage into pilothood (and one they will have incentive to participate in to recognize their accomplishment) is to become a paying member. It's not so much about affordability as it is recognition and taking on more responsibility. You could even have a short ceremony! Think of the motivation for younger members to "join the club".
I don't have answers for how to get the critical mass through the door but welcoming those that arrive and involving them in the process is what has to happen. Perhaps it's starting a Friday after work COPA chapter pub meet or some sort of regular (regularity is key!) social gathering where it's not just about the old boys club (did I say that???). How about getting the offspring of the "old fogeys" involved, there have to be some who are interested and if they can network with the offspring of others but on their own terms then they don't have to hang around with their parents.
Getting younger, what about some flight sim competitions? How long can they fly "under the hood" and maintain control or sim spot landings or???? The old guard could help by coaching/instructing the younger crowd. Invite the Air Cadets to come join in and take on the licensed pilots. Make it a BBQ event.
Now, on to getting new (young or old) members involved in running the chapter. I have seen the typical organization be one or maybe two people that do everything and the rest go along for the ride. That's a recipe for burn out and a buzz kill for anyone that might be interested in contributing because they know they'll be next in line and you know what happens next, right? Don't know how to address that but there are enough smart individuals here that can toss out good, constructive ideas, right? As soon as some good answers come in I think they can be tried out quickly, right?
OK, I've hogged the soap box long enough, who's next?
D
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
My wife and I joined our local (at the time) Flying Club. We are in our thirties, my wife is a pilot and I am a tag along enthusiast. The club introduced us at our first meeting and we were made to feel very welcome. We got involved with events, COPA for kids and had a fantastic time. My wife flew a friends aircraft for the COPA for kids and I worked on the ground. There is an awful lot of great things to do and get involved in. It was hard to go to some of the meetings, it seemed like a lot of regurgitated codswallop and was pretty tedious. On the other hand, we made the effort to go and ended up meeting some fantastic people and had a lot of fun.
At the end of the day, bringing in younger blood will take effort on both sides. Everyone will need to make an effort.
Whilst sometimes I would have rather have shot myself in the face than go and listen to the same crap over and over and over, I made the effort and ended up being grateful for the time we spent there. We sure miss our old flying club now.
Quinny
At the end of the day, bringing in younger blood will take effort on both sides. Everyone will need to make an effort.
Whilst sometimes I would have rather have shot myself in the face than go and listen to the same crap over and over and over, I made the effort and ended up being grateful for the time we spent there. We sure miss our old flying club now.
Quinny
-
Schooner69A
- Rank 7
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:17 pm
- Location: The Okanagan
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
And we miss the both of you... The coffee pot is always on.
John
John
Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa
I like COPA.
Been a member since 1976.
I know the President and have great respect for his knowledge and efforts, as do industry peers and government officials.
He has done more than any other representative to present GA as a serious lobby with important issues for Canada's well being.
The COPA staff is terrific, I read the newspaper cover to cover.
The insurance program and benefits work well.
Our local COPA Flight is well organized and satisfies the Four Fs- Flying- Friendship- Fun-Food!
I have known most Board members for a long time and appreciate their efforts.
This thread suffers from LMF and the posters negative to COPA should either join and get involved or be quiet because if you do not belong it is not your business.
COPA is a great organization and this thread more represents the gutter level discussions forum that for some reason AVCanada allows, but is not fair on a dedicated group of people trying their best.
Been a member since 1976.
I know the President and have great respect for his knowledge and efforts, as do industry peers and government officials.
He has done more than any other representative to present GA as a serious lobby with important issues for Canada's well being.
The COPA staff is terrific, I read the newspaper cover to cover.
The insurance program and benefits work well.
Our local COPA Flight is well organized and satisfies the Four Fs- Flying- Friendship- Fun-Food!
I have known most Board members for a long time and appreciate their efforts.
This thread suffers from LMF and the posters negative to COPA should either join and get involved or be quiet because if you do not belong it is not your business.
COPA is a great organization and this thread more represents the gutter level discussions forum that for some reason AVCanada allows, but is not fair on a dedicated group of people trying their best.
