Foreign pilots and helicopter operators

[Gilles Hudicourt]

http://www.h-a-c.ca/Honourable_Jason_Kenny.pdf

What do Canadian Helicopter pilots think of this letter ?

Honourable Jason Kenny
Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism
325 East Block
House of Commons
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0A6

Honourable Minister:

The Helicopter Association of Canada’s members collectively operate over 80% of the commercial helicopters in Canada today.

The Association has been watching with interest the discussion relating to the use of temporary foreign workers in Canada, and prospective changes to the Accelerated Labour Market Opinion process under discussion and, we feel that you should be aware of the importance of temporary foreign workers to our industry segment.

The Canadian helicopter industry depends on highly skilled seasonal foreign workers to supplement the growing shortage of experienced helicopter pilots in Canada.
The global shortage of experienced helicopter flight crews has drawn many experienced Canadian pilots to international locales both in support of Canadian companies working internationally, but also to work for foreign companies. Experienced Canadian helicopter pilots and Maintenance Engineers are sought-after around the world, and during the busy summer months, many of our members have difficulty finding qualified Canadians to meet their needs. The recognition of foreign aircraft maintenance qualifications makes temporary access by foreign maintenance personnel even more complicated.

Furthermore, a growing number of our Canadian clients impose experience requirements that make it difficult to find and employ newly-licensed Canadian helicopter pilots and, the seasonal nature of the helicopter business only aggravates the problem when the demand for experienced crews spikes during the summer months. The process of building time and experience as a helicopter pilot is difficult and time-consuming and, the transition from a newly-licensed helicopter pilot to a readily-employable pilot is a challenging one for both pilots and employers. It takes years of experience to be able to read weather, perform external load operations, or just manage the new more sophisticated aircraft our customers demand. A pilot with 1,000 hours on a small piston engine powered aircraft is not the same as a pilot with experience on a new generation multi-engine aircraft

In Canada, helicopter operators generally have a very short operating season and sometimes unpredictable demands - on short notice for extra flight crews in a busy fire season, for example, can aggravate the shortage. We absolutely need access to temporary English and French-speaking foreign workers, sometimes on an accelerated basis.

Our foreign contractor-pilots are generally paid according to Canadian flight crew standards. It is not a question of finding a cheaper temporary source of experienced flight crews – but one of simply finding experienced temporary flight crews.

Any changes to the temporary foreign worker program should contemplate the needs of our industry for seasonal pilots and maintenance personnel. We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter to ensure that service to our customers is not interrupted by a short-sighted change to the temporary foreign worker program or to the accelerated Labour Market Opinion process.

We would be pleased to meet with you at your convenience on this issue. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Fred L. Jones BA LLB
President and CEO
Helicopter Association of Canada
“Bringing the Industry Together”
130 Albert Street, Suite 500
Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5G4
Office: (613) 231-1110 x239
Cell: (613) 884-1422
Fax: (613) 369-5097
Website: www.h-a-c.ca

What licences do these foreign helicopter pilots fly with when in Canada ?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I already posted this earlier on the Airline Forum but am re-posting here:

A pilot walked up to me a couple days ago to share something with me. He told me that before becoming a fixed-wing airline pilot, he had a first life as a rotary wing pilot. He graduated with his rotary wing commercial in the mid seventies. At the time, a high number of helicopter pilots in Canada were foreign. Vietnam had ended just a few years before and they were thousands of experienced foreign helicopter pilots on the market, but few experienced ones in Canada. So Canadian helicopter operators hired foreigners on that basis. Then some people began to object and finally the Federal Government intervened and provided funds to provide less experienced Canadian pilots with advanced training in order to qualify them for the jobs that were being handed out to the foreigners.

This pilots tells me that the company where he finally landed his first job was provided with Federal funds with which they hired him and four other Canadians with which they provided type training to the five.

Many other Canadian companies benefited from this same program, which allowed the replacement with the foreign helicopter pilots with Canadian pilots.

Anyone else remember this program and want to add anything about it ?

[47guy's]

I already posted this earlier on the Airline Forum but am re-posting here:

A pilot walked up to me a couple days ago to share something with me. He told me that before becoming a fixed-wing airline pilot, he had a first life as a rotary wing pilot. He graduated with his rotary wing commercial in the mid seventies. At the time, a high number of helicopter pilots in Canada were foreign. Vietnam had ended just a few years before and they were thousands of experienced foreign helicopter pilots on the market, but few experienced ones in Canada. So Canadian helicopter operators hired foreigners on that basis. Then some people began to object and finally the Federal Government intervened and provided funds to provide less experienced Canadian pilots with advanced training in order to qualify them for the jobs that were being handed out to the foreigners.

This pilots tells me that the company where he finally landed his first job was provided with Federal funds with which they hired him and four other Canadians with which they provided type training to the five.

Many other Canadian companies benefited from this same program, which allowed the replacement with the foreign helicopter pilots with Canadian pilots.

Anyone else remember this program and want to add anything about it ?

Il y des lunessss j'ai essayer d'avoir acces a ce genre de programme ca n'a jamais aboutie!J'etais face a un systeme de fonctionariat qui voulais rien savoir!il ne pouvais consevoir d'investir 10K$ pour un pilote deja formee mais avec besoin de mise a niveau pour etre employable,mais avais 25K$ et + pour aller en informatique...

Guy

Sorry I can effectively right my message in english but RAGE to them is still to mutch!

[sky's the limit]

Year by year, my issue with the HAC and its Executive grows. This is yet another example of why, despite its claims to the contrary, the HAC is counter-productive to a healthy Canadian helicopter industry and a total farce. The HAC should be ashamed... I don't care what justification the membership has for garbage like this, but it is just that - Garbage.


stl

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Why don't you write another letter, to TC this time, explaining how many of your valued "Members" use some of these pilots? Now that would be a read....

stl

Don't worry about that. I'm on it.....

[sky's the limit]

Thanks for this Gilles,

I'm passing it around to all my friends and co-workers, and going to write a response to it given the address of the recipient is included. I just got off the phone this morning with a co-worker who is looking for work as there is so little out there... he's only got 10,000hrs, great long-line and mountain skills, can't imagine he'll be pleased about this.

If you have any advice perhaps you could PM me and I'll get something put together over the weekend.

stl

[The Weasel]

Wow, HAC can't make any claim to be speaking for individuals with that letter, only the operators and owners. I agree though that the client demands for PIC hours etc is a strain. I think that's the real issue. If that was less of a barrier, then more pilots would be able to build hours, and there'd be less of a 'shortage'. Or maybe Canadian operators aren't able/willing to compete with international salaries?

In the long run though, more restrictions on foreign pilots (sounds like that's the way HAC thinks the government is heading) would put strain on clients and operators to accept lower-time pilots, helping to build their hours, and eventually strengthening the domestic pool of pilots.

As for AMEs, well, we're just 'different', but the industry as a whole needs to do better to recruit young people into maintenance...

[fijdor]

http://www.h-a-c.ca/Honourable_Jason_Kenny.pdf

What do Canadian Helicopter pilots think of this letter ?

Honourable Jason Kenny
Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism
325 East Block
House of Commons
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0A6

Honourable Minister:

The Helicopter Association of Canada’s members collectively operate over 80% of the commercial helicopters in Canada today.

The Association has been watching with interest the discussion relating to the use of temporary foreign workers in Canada, and prospective changes to the Accelerated Labour Market Opinion process under discussion and, we feel that you should be aware of the importance of temporary foreign workers to our industry segment.

The Canadian helicopter industry depends on highly skilled seasonal foreign workers to supplement the growing shortage of experienced helicopter pilots in Canada.
The global shortage of experienced helicopter flight crews has drawn many experienced Canadian pilots to international locales both in support of Canadian companies working internationally, but also to work for foreign companies. Experienced Canadian helicopter pilots and Maintenance Engineers are sought-after around the world, and during the busy summer months, many of our members have difficulty finding qualified Canadians to meet their needs. The recognition of foreign aircraft maintenance qualifications makes temporary access by foreign maintenance personnel even more complicated.


Sincerely,

Fred L. Jones BA LLB
President and CEO
Helicopter Association of Canada
“Bringing the Industry Together”
130 Albert Street, Suite 500
Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5G4
Office: (613) 231-1110 x239
Cell: (613) 884-1422
Fax: (613) 369-5097
Website: http://www.h-a-c.ca

What licences do these foreign helicopter pilots fly with when in Canada ?

BULLSHIT.

When I am calmed down I will be able to respond in a proper manner. I cut part of it just to shorten my post.

JD

[Heliian]

You know the industry is really slow when this is the only topic being discussed. This issue is nothing new, nor do people really care when things are booming. But, who is this foreign group? NZ's, Auzzies, europeans? are we being flooded by the chinese?

There is just not enough work for everyone right now.

The HAC and FJ should just dissolve and leave it to ourselves.

Consider me one of the 20%'rs

[Gilles Hudicourt]

DIVISION VII - PERSONNEL REQUIREMENTS

Flight Crew Member Qualifications

702.65 No air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as a flight crew member in an aircraft unless the person

(a) holds the licence and ratings required by Part IV or, where the air operator is the holder of an air operator certificate issued in accordance with the North American Free Trade Agreement, the equivalent foreign licence and ratings;

Translation : to fly as pilot under Part 702, one needs a Canadian Licence, unless one is flying for a US or Mexican Operator who is working in Canada under NAFTA.

These foreign pilots who fly helicopters in Canada as temporary workers, do they have a Transport Canada licence or do they get FLVCs from TC ?

So CAR 702.65 (a) says no FLVCs under part 702. Part IV allows some exceptions:

421.07 Validation of Foreign Licences

(1) Issue of Foreign Licence Validation Certificate

(a) A Foreign Licence Validation Certificate shall be issued to an applicant who provides the following:

(i) a foreign licence valid under the laws of a contracting state and valid for the privileges requested; and

(ii) a letter requesting issue of the Foreign Licence Validation Certificate and specifying the purpose for which the foreign licence is to be validated.

(2) Purposes For Which Foreign Licence Validation Certificates May Be Issued

(a) for the holder to undergo a flight test;

(b) for private recreational flying;

(c) for ferry of an aircraft registered in Canada to or from a foreign country;

(d) for the holder to give type rating training on an aircraft registered in Canada to the registered owner, or to Canadian flight crew employed by the registered owner;

(e) for the holder to receive training in a Canadian registered aircraft;

(f) for operation of aircraft registered in a foreign state under the operating certificate of a Canadian carrier provided that the privileges are limited to the type of aircraft being operated;

(g) for operation of Canadian aircraft on Canadian commercial air services in urgent circumstances; such as fire suppression operations, emergency agricultural and forestry aerial application, airlift in relief of domestic natural disasters, and search and rescue operations;

(h) for commercial air services operated entirely within a foreign country where pilots holding a licence from that country may have their licence validated for operation of Canadian registered aircraft in that country;

(i) for the operation of aircraft registered in Canada on lease to foreign carriers;

(j) for reasons other than those mentioned above where approval may be given if, in the opinion of the Minister, it is in the public interest and not likely to affect aviation safety.

You will notice that revenue flights for purposes not mentioned in 421.07(2) is not allowed.

The Minister has been issuing FLVCs under 421.07(2(j) by the hundreds every year. This practice must stop!

The original version of 421.07(2)(j) specified that this clause could only be used in "exceptional cases". That condition was quietly removed from the English version of the CAR but they forgot to modify the French version which is still valid:

j) lorsqu'une demande a la prétention de servir l'intérêt public canadien pour des raisons non pas visées par les circonstances pressantes énumérées ci-dessus, le ministre peut accorder une approbation dans les cas exceptionnels.

The French version of CAR 421.07(2)(j) is valid and in effect.

Edit: just to be clear.

"Foreign pilots" in this discussion has nothing to do with the national origin of the pilot.
We mean someone who is neither a Canadian Citizen, nor a Landed Immigrant, and who comes to work in Canada as a temporary worker using the TFWP, when Canadian employers claim they need to import foreign pilots for lack of qualified Canadian pilots.

[The Mole]

Foreign pilots all get canadian license. One flight school in BC specializes in conversions.

The holiday working visa program is how many foreign pilots enter canada. Its good for 2years and can be extended. No restriction on the type of work. Commonwealth countries have reciprocal agreements but canada's is very generous. Put 500hrs on your resume, and work for discount wages and pay for all your training, and you will probably get a job fighting fires in On-terrible. Not all foreign pilots come and work for discount wages, some come with relevant experience, end up staying and making a life here. These pilots i don't see as the problem.

Working holiday Visa, get yours todays
https://www.whpcanada.org.au

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I mailed two access to Information requests today:

One to HRSDC asking to see all Labor Market Opinion (LMO) requests from all Helicopter Operators in the past 10 years for importing foreign pilots and another to Transport Canada, to ask to see all FLVC applications in the last 10 years for Helicopter pilots for Commercial Flying in Canada.

I'll keep you posted on the replies I get.

[snoopy]

I'd recommend contacting Bruce Campion-Smith with the Toronto Star on this new angle if you haven't already. As you're likely aware he's contributed a lot of time and resources to researching and writing about aviation safety issues as well as other aviation-related topics that need public attention towards the truth. As well, he can likely help you with any resistance including censorship/sanitization (if the government tries that tactic) with respect to your Access to Information Requests.
Way to keep the pressure on, and thank you for everything you are doing!
Best Regards,
Kirsten B.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I've been receiving independent reports about commercial helicopter operators in Canada making extensive use of foreign pilots and possibly also of Foreign Licence Validation Certificates (FLVCs).
When an FLVC is applied for Commercial Reasons, the TC requirements are that the application cannot be done by the pilot himself but by the Helicopter Certificate Holder.

So I sent an ATIP request to Transport Canada asking to see all the FLVC applications made by Helicopter Certificate holders for foreign licensed pilots in the last 10 years, to get an idea the actual number of foreign licensed helicopter pilots taking jobs away from Canadian licensed helicopter pilots.

I just received a phone call from a Transport Canada ATIP Coordinator.

He stated that due to the time required to search for the data I was requesting, that TC would have to bill me $3820 for the requested information.

I must state that back in Feb 2013, they sent me a bill for over $300 for another search also related to FLVCs. I I paid that bill by credit card the very same day I received it, and that today, 7 months later, I still have not received the requested information. It is now the subject of a complaint to the Information Commissioner.

Gilles Hudicourt

[snoopy]

Again, Bruce Campion-Smith can help you generate some exposure, and likely some public outrage over that.
That's BS!!!!
Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Access to Information at Transport Canada

Check out this jewel

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... C%20TC.pdf

[snoopy]

Well Gilles,

This proves you are on to something big, and you are going to need backing to overcome the bureaucracy, speed up the process and expose the truth before you die of old age or give up. If there are that many records that it will take so many hours to produce them, and/or the government is trying to stonewall you in order to hide something else, then you should have no trouble getting support if you are talking to the right people. Bearing in mind of course many people outside the government are squirming in their seats with all your questions and will not want you to succeed either.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[ragbagflyer]

Hundred of hours required to find those numbers? So what they are saying is that the information must be somewhere on the Transport Canada website?

[nothingbeatsflying]

I'd be pretty interested in the results of your research Gilles. I know too many guys who aren't able to get a start on their hours. Meanwhile someone with an accent shows up and mysteriously gets hired even though the operator was all tooled up for the season. It boggles my mind.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I got a response today from ESDC. I had asked for all LMO applications received by ESDC for pilots in the course of 2013. Because they received my request on Oct 25, 2013, the applications received after that date in 2013 will not appear here. In short, several Canadian helicopter companies imported foreign helicopter pilots in Canada during the course of 2013.

Canadian Helicopters Limited
Construction Helicopters Inc. (a US company which needed pilots for work in Newfoundland)
Niagara Helicopters Ltd
Prism Helicopters Ltd
Trinity Helicopters
Heli Source Ltd
Quest Helicopters Ltd
Aurora Helicopters Ltd
Fast Trucking Services Ltd
Valhalia Helicopters Ltd
TCF Van Productions
Coulson Aircrane Ltd
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd
London Air Services Ltd


I might have missed a few. The file is large and I don't have time right now.

In essence: CANADIAN HELICOPTER PILOTS ARE GETTING SCREWED BIG TIME.

Get your act together guys and gals and defend your profession. I won't do it for you. But I will help whomever decides to stand up.

Gilles Hudicourt

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... 202013.pdf

[Fuelmule]

I got a response today from ESDC. I had asked for all LMO applications received by ESDC for pilots in the course of 2013. Because they received my request on Oct 25, 2013, the applications received after that date in 2013 will not appear here. In short, several Canadian helicopter companies imported foreign helicopter pilots in Canada during the course of 2013.

Canadian Helicopters Limited
Construction Helicopters Inc. (a US company which needed pilots for work in Newfoundland)
Niagara Helicopters Ltd
Prism Helicopters Ltd
Trinity Helicopters
Heli Source Ltd
Quest Helicopters Ltd
Aurora Helicopters Ltd
Fast Trucking Services Ltd
Valhalia Helicopters Ltd
TCF Van Productions
Coulson Aircrane Ltd
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd
London Air Services Ltd


I might have missed a few. The file is large and I don't have time right now.

In essence: CANADIAN HELICOPTER PILOTS ARE GETTING SCREWED BIG TIME.

Get your act together guys and gals and defend your profession. I won't do it for you. But I will help whomever decides to stand up.

Gilles Hudicourt

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... 202013.pdf

So now that Tim's and Mcdonalds have brought the TFW issue into the eye of the media I almost wonder if it would be worth the time to forward this info on to global, cbc etc. Unfortunately as a low time guy I can't claim to know a ton about the industry but it does seem like there isn't much in the way of opportunities for new Canadian pilots to get a start. I don't want to come across as sounding entitled in any way but that's just my take on it as a new guy looking to work his way up.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

OTTAWA - Canadian helicopter pilots say they're being denied jobs in favour of cheaper temporary foreign workers as alarm bells grow ever louder about the integrity of the embattled federal program.

"The saddest and most outrageous part is that this will slowly kill the industry," Bill Wadsworth, a helicopter pilot in Mayne Island, B.C., with 25 years experience, said in an interview Wednesday.

Wadsworth said he recently applied for several jobs at B.C. companies that he learned had subsequently sought temporary foreign workers. In each case, he was told there were no openings.

He also said he frequently sees job postings for pilots that offer hourly rates well below the industry standard, a practice he said drives down wages.

"They're leveraging the foreign workers against the Canadian pilots, essentially threatening Canadians by saying: 'We're paying these guys so little and we're only going to pay you 10 dollars an hour more. So you either go with the flow here or we're hiring TFWs and you're out of work.'"

The situation provides employers with no incentives to bring along rookie Canadian pilots by providing training, Wadsworth added — a state of affairs that he warned could sound the death knell for the industry.

Kirsten Brazier, a helicopter and fixed-wing pilot in Vancouver, said employers are now telling pilots across the country that they are under-qualified in order to justify hiring cheaper temporary foreign workers.

"What the federal government is doing is enabling these operators to bamboozle the system," Brazier said.

"The worst damage to our industry is that they're using the program as a justification to disqualify pilots that are perfectly capable of doing the job."

Dozens of applications for temporary foreign workers, filed by private helicopter operators from across Canada and examined by The Canadian Press, claim the companies are unable to find domestic candidates with the necessary skills.

One company in Niagara Falls, Ont., that was looking last year to hire a seasonal pilot, simply typed "expertise" when asked on the government form why it hadn't sought a Canadian candidate. No other explanation was provided.

Gilles Hudicourt, a longtime Air Transat pilot who's spent years crusading against the temporary foreign worker program in the aviation sector, accuses federal officials of making no effort determine whether employers have sincerely tried to find Canadian workers.

"They always give shady reasons for needing TFWs; it's never valid, and no one ever checks it out," Hudicourt said.

"You have to pity the poor helicopter pilot in Canada. They are often unemployed and rely on these same operators who are hiring these temporary foreign workers for a job. Many of them are afraid to speak out, because they're going to be blacklisted and never get a job."

Greg Holbrooke, an official at the Canadian Federal Pilots Association, said he's unaware of a single instance in which a temporary foreign worker has been hired in Canada as a pilot at a wage that is higher than a Canadian's.

"In every case I'm aware of, when they bring in foreign workers to work as pilots, they pay them less money," Holbrooke said.

The beleaguered temporary foreign workers program was a hot topic of debate again Wednesday in the House of Commons.

Employment Minister Jason Kenney said the government has already beefed up the auditing might of federal inspectors who investigate whether employers are abusing the program.

"We will be proposing additional measures to even further strengthen those auditing powers, to ensure that the rules are followed and that there are very serious consequences should employers break the rules of the program, because they must always give Canadians the first crack at available jobs," he said.

Kenney has vowed to crack down further on the program after banning the food services sector from applying for TFWs following a series of abuse allegations at fast-food restaurants in recent weeks.

Nonetheless, there are other government initiatives, including the International Experience Canada program, that allow employers to hire foreign workers without a skills assessment and with no requirement to pay even minimum wage.

Wadsworth said the real tragedy of the program in the aviation industry is that young pilots need to log flying time in order to get experience.

"When you train to become a pilot you graduate or get your licence at 100 hours, but you're really no use at that point," he said.

"Bringing in temporary foreign workers takes away any motivation for Canadian companies to bring these young pilots along and provide them with training and education and hours."

Follow Lee-Anne Goodman on Twitter at @leeanne25

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/nation ... z30Peta7HA

[timel]

Gilles have a look at:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca ... 00-005.pdf

Read p.4 - 4.5
Point 6

Care must be taken to ensure that a FLVC does not become a mechanism for operators to hire foreign pilots in favour of available, experienced and qualified holders of Canadian licences. The POI for the company is a good source of information about the availability of appropriately qualified and experienced holders of Canadian licences. If any doubt exists about the issuance of a FLVC for commercial purposes, regional licensing staff should contact the Flight Crew Licensing division of the Standards branch.

Some people at transport aren't doing their jobs correctly.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles have a look at:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca ... 00-005.pdf

Read p.4 - 4.5
Point 6

Care must be taken to ensure that a FLVC does not become a mechanism for operators to hire foreign pilots in favour of available, experienced and qualified holders of Canadian licences. The POI for the company is a good source of information about the availability of appropriately qualified and experienced holders of Canadian licences. If any doubt exists about the issuance of a FLVC for commercial purposes, regional licensing staff should contact the Flight Crew Licensing division of the Standards branch.

Some people at transport aren't doing their jobs correctly.

I personally read some of that material, right off Transport Canada's Website, to Mr Martin Eley, Transport Canada's Director of Civil Aviation, during a meeting we had with him and all ALPA MECs in Ottawa a few months ago.

His reply and I quote : " You musn't believe everything you read on the internet"

There were about 20 ALPA witnesses in the room who all heard his reply yet still voted against my motion that we challenge Transport Canada on the legality of FLVCs for Part VII revenue flights in Canada.

I still cannot comprehend why the ALPA Canada Board refused to back our MEC on this issue. The first reason that came to my mind is cowardness. It can only be this reason because cowardness is the only explanation I could imagine that did not involve a dishonest motive. Any other kind of explanation my mind could muster involved some form of dishonesty which I could not believe to be possible.....

[Legacy14]

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