New or Better ways to pull Aviation together

[pdw]

One of the schools used to have a trailer with a cockpit mock up they would drive to the mall to help spread the word about the pending pilot shortage. We could even fit one with a couple of flat screens and a PC running flight sim. How does that sound?

The interested kids would love to have a chance for a familiarization flight on a real SIM, ... esp the parents. Great idea ! I've never had the chance to fly a SIM, neither have most people I know. It would be a hit.

[Beefitarian]

I flew several sims at airventure, you should go. Totally awesome chili dogs too!

3) Websites. Holy crap Websites!!! People UPDATE YOUR WEBSITES! People hit these things but they got to stay active. By far of any activity, aviation websites are generally terrible. These are the things people are going to see these days, especially if they're looking to go farther. I should say that of any service, General aviation has the worst web coverage. I can almost go to any flight school, flying club, COPA chapter website and find stuff that's terrible with it. No contact info, not up to date, no new content, clunky menus, bad cut and paste jobs, you name it.


Get to work people!

Physician heal thyself? Ziiiing!

[ScreaminBanshee]

Personally I think kids automatically like planes. You want to find 100 kids that like airplanes, go out to a cadet gliding centre on a weekend. It's the young adults we need to attract. The group in their 20's to 30's. There are lots of them out there. But with a $60,000 dollar tuition debt and a $20,000 a year job instructing or packing planes I think it is hard for them to participate in GA.

SOSA gliding club had a pretty successful program for junior pilots (Aged 25 or less) Where one week a year they had a camp where young adults would come pitch tents, get free advanced soaring instruction and get gliders and tows basically at cost. Obviously you need to cover your expenses and turn a profit, but when they did this one week camp once a year, there was a waiting list to get on it. Most of the young adults stayed members for the year and beyond even at the regular rate for the rest of the year.

This program worked well for a couple of reasons:

1- It was a bunch of other people their age who shared the same interest all in the same location for a week. Even when they weren't flying they were having a good time. Stacking hangars, retrieving gliders was fun cause they were with a bunch of friends.

2- There was something they couldn't get online or on their phone...knowledge. Most of the young adults went to this camp to learn advanced techniques and see a different world of flying. It was interesting and they truly came away with something.

3- It was cost effective. There was a deal to be had for younger members so they jumped on it. The club made no money off it but it was an investment to gain future members. The beauty of it was that they only had to invest for one week of the year. In fact, if they gave a deal all year long I think it would have been less successful as there wouldn't have been as big a group of young people at the same time.

Perhaps I remember this with rose coloured memories but I personally think it was a success.

How can this be applied to GA as a whole? I'm not sure so I guess I wasn't helpful but hopefully it gets your wheels turning.

But in a nutshell I think for people to get involved, they need to feel party of the group and they need to feel that the group offers some sort of value. Not necessarily monetary value, but value in friendships, knowledge, etc.

[Tom H]

One of the schools used to have a trailer with a cockpit mock up they would drive to the mall to help spread the word about the pending pilot shortage. We could even fit one with a couple of flat screens and a PC running flight sim. How does that sound?

The interested kids would love to have a chance for a familiarization flight on a real SIM, ... esp the parents. Great idea ! I've never had the chance to fly a SIM, neither have most people I know. It would be a hit.

We have a couple basic public access sims in our museum and they are a big hit...

But when we want to clear them out we start putting folks in our Sabre...all of a sudden no ones interested in the sims.

Tom

[Pavese]

Tom

Thanks for starting this thread, THANKS! Thanks to everyone else who has posted so far, really good introspective, thoughtful and positive posts! With this kind of discussion something of value will come from it, THANKS!

On a personal note, with the way that other thread went I stepped back and asked what the value was to me to participate in AvCanada and came to the conclusion it wasn't worth it and swore I was finished, I don't even know why I dropped in today. You guys and girls have made today's visit worth it! (don't forget the girls, there are some avid female enthusiasts out there too, I have twin 13 year old cadets and their dad that are on my "take for a ride" list when weather etc. cooperates). BTW, nice to see ScreaminBanshee turn up here.

OK, that done, I'm not sure what I can contribute today but here are a few random thoughts to chew on:

Flying clubs have social events, some are the traditional pancake breakfast that I have seen that draw a range of attendance from pretty good to amazing on a great day. These are a corner stone of club activities but what else can we do and what can we do to get that new blood involved? Our club has visited a control tower, that was very well attended by the existing flying community, what other things could we do to build a larger, broader participant base? Anyone know about doing some "cross pollination" type of events where the flying club/organization/chapter etc. had co-sponsored an event with a non-related group for mutual benefit?

Speaking of new blood, to build social events (even if it is e.g. a tower visit)/a social circle and to gently bring in/break in the prospects where has been a good source of new blood? OK, cadets are one age group that will grow into the next stage with time and are worth sewing the seeds with but what of the next age level (the age of the participatants at the camps ScreaminBanshee mentioned)? How do we connect there? Then, a little older and we're probably getting into the demographic of the young parents who can afford/negotiate a day off from family duties to attend an event but can't afford to pay to fly, this has been identified as a key drop out demographic, how do we connect with them and involve them in a meaningful way?

It was before my time but I have heard of a flying club in our area that had a clubhouse with what sounded like a dance hall & bar etc. making it a social meeting place, does anyone belong to a club like that?

At some of the events the that another organization I belong to has had they will gather for lunch before the event, this has generally brought out a good crowd.

One last thought which has been touched on, having regular events that the group can depend on will encourage participation.

So, any of this provoke some inspiration?

Thanks,

D

[av8rphil]

I am glad to see the participation on this thread, but the challenge I threw out at the beginning has been ignored. You have griped about COPA but have not taken up the challenge to correct it. There is an election for COPA directors in Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia. Are any of you going to throw your hat into the ring and take up the challenge for making our organization a better one?

[ScreaminBanshee]

I don't live in any of those areas or I would

[Tom H]

I am glad to see the participation on this thread, but the challenge I threw out at the beginning has been ignored. You have griped about COPA but have not taken up the challenge to correct it. There is an election for COPA directors in Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia. Are any of you going to throw your hat into the ring and take up the challenge for making our organization a better one?

av8rphil

I am normally not like this but...

I started this thread to separate the COPA issues from the the general need to move forward and with the positives coming forward on this thread I would appreciate it if we keep the COPA side of things to the thread that was started for it.

As I said I'm not normally anywhere near this abrupt but the need to move forward goes beyond any individual organization or agenda.

Tom H

[Tom H]

Posters have brought together some great thoughts, ideas and inspirations so far on this thread, thank you.

There are many ways to move ahead positively and I think the conversation needs to continue so we can get an avalanche of thoughts we can all pull from to fit our areas and worlds.

Baby steps is likely the best way to start...

Part of my world has me study marketing and marketing programs of all kinds and one of the most successful programs has been McDonalds Restaurants.

Their most successful programs have always targeted kids, pre teens and the reasoning as I see it is simple. Get the kids and you get the adults. I bet most parents out there know what I mean.

How can we as both individuals and a community get young kids involved, interested and excited about flying again? In practical ways that we can all take on with minimal resources (and lets face it time).

Thoughts?

Tom H

[Shiny Side Up]

Physician heal thyself? Ziiiing!

Don't get me started.

[Shiny Side Up]

How can we as both individuals and a community get young kids involved, interested and excited about flying again? In practical ways that we can all take on with minimal resources (and lets face it time).

One of the things to realise is that you're not going to make any converts. I suspect there's is something already ingrained (nature/nurture) that kids (and people in general) predispose them to being pilots or interested in aviation. The rest, aviation just needs to play nice with and make sure we don't piss them off. Out of any group of kids, I find that there's only maybe 5% who I would peg are potential aviation people. What I feel one needs to do is when one finds such individuals, then all encouragement possible should be put forth to bring them into the fold.

[Tom H]

Shiny Side Up

The rest, aviation just needs to play nice with and make sure we don't piss them off.

Have to agree, there are some people that aviation is nothing more than an annoyance unless its taking them to vacation destination they simply have no use for it and could care less about it and this is the only way to treat them.

But they are a small percentage of the population and while loud not really a concern.

The rest are interested, some actively and while most will never be pilots or engineers they are supporters....more importantly advocates, but we need to bring them to the fold and make their voices heard.

They are also volunteers, authors and parents of kids that if we open the door will walk through.

A good example is the magazine business....there are hundreds of time the numbers of pilots that are the purchasers of flying and aviation magazines of all kinds. Then there are the flight sim gamers that spend like crazy and there are many thousands.

They are spending money, wonder if they would spend it on a joy ride flight, a membership or maybe even some lessons if encouraged.

I find that there's only maybe 5% who I would peg are potential aviation people. What I feel one needs to do is when one finds such individuals, then all encouragement possible should be put forth to bring them into the fold.

While we will disagree on the % I certainly agree with you thoughts on doing everything we can to bring them into the fold.

I suspect there's is something already ingrained (nature/nurture) that kids (and people in general) predispose them to being pilots or interested in aviation.

Your experiences are obviously vastly different than mine and it is leading us to very different conclusions.

I have found kids (of all ages) when introduced to the romance, excitement and adventure of flight almost all dive in knee deep. If supported at all by their parents they become addicted quickly.

The ones we loose are the ones that don't get the parental support (for many reasons) and we fail to be able to reach once back in the ground bound world.

I'm proud to say, even though it makes me feel old, I've had a few adults come up to me to say thanks for encouraging them in some grade 6 class I taught in the museum 15-18 years ago, as they are now pilots.

The last one a few months ago (maybe a year) is with WJ.

So I feel there are lots of kids (8-80) that can't find there way in or feel locked out and if we work together as a community we can help them become part of the adventure.

My two bits

Tom H

[Shiny Side Up]

But they are a small percentage of the population and while loud not really a concern.

I hate to tell you this but they're a larger percentage than you think. The worst part is though, that these people tend to be extraordinarily motivated when they do get up in arms, in some ways we're fortunate that they are Canadians. Regardless, they can do a lot of damage. These are the people who are going to sit on town council meetings, school boards and parent groups and tend to be loud voices.

The rest are interested, some actively and while most will never be pilots or engineers they are supporters....more importantly advocates, but we need to bring them to the fold and make their voices heard.

They are also volunteers, authors and parents of kids that if we open the door will walk through.

A good example is the magazine business....there are hundreds of time the numbers of pilots that are the purchasers of flying and aviation magazines of all kinds. Then there are the flight sim gamers that spend like crazy and there are many thousands.

They are spending money, wonder if they would spend it on a joy ride flight, a membership or maybe even some lessons if encouraged.

The problem here is that these for these people 1) aviation isn't important enough to voice against the previous group, and 2) Its an uphill battle to get them to part with their money and time. Here's a lesson one learns when being an evil flight school guy, your competition isn't the FTU across the way or at the next airport, you competition is the golf course, the motorcycle shop, the movie theatre, etc. There's a lot. By the nature of what we're proposing here, those are the types of things we have to pry people's interest away from. Remember that even an aviation enthusiast, ain't going to want to live by an airport, and chances are if there's one in his back yard would still support it being turned into a golf course.

Part of this trick then is not just having a friendly face and getting people involved, but continually remind people that this activity is something that they want to have around. We need to appeal to their business sense - this is something that is very different stateside that we need to copy. We need to remind them that aviation contributes.

[Tom H]

Shiny Side Up

I hate to tell you this but they're a larger percentage than you think. The worst part is though, that these people tend to be extraordinarily motivated when they do get up in arms, in some ways we're fortunate that they are Canadians. Regardless, they can do a lot of damage. These are the people who are going to sit on town council meetings, school boards and parent groups and tend to be loud voices.

Well we are going to disagree on the percentages, but the balance of the comment I won't argue with except to say that after sitting on parents groups (as President talk about a sucker), worked with school boards and lord knows have spent far too much of my life that I will never get back at City Hall, most of the screamers act in ignorance and can be dealt with.

No it ain't fun...but I've had to deal with it far too many times.

The problem here is that these for these people 1) aviation isn't important enough to voice against the previous group,

But I'll add to that because we only look to them when the s**t hits the fan, the rest of the time we ignore them. That is where being inclusive and making them part of what we do changes the game.

and 2) Its an uphill battle to get them to part with their money and time.

And that's different than any other group how? No I am not being a smart alec, I spent 30 years in sales and management before loosing my mind and doing what I do now because of my passion for aviation and I can say the same thing about every market.

Here's a lesson one learns when being an evil flight school guy, your competition isn't the FTU across the way or at the next airport, you competition is the golf course, the motorcycle shop, the movie theatre, etc. There's a lot. By the nature of what we're proposing here, those are the types of things we have to pry people's interest away from.

Well I don't know you personally but I agree with this comment except for the "evil flight school guy" (because we haven't met and I don't get that impression on here).

But...recreational flying is a discretionary spend and is going to compete against all the other discretionary spends. What are we doing to make it attractive?

Most aviation museums "expect" people to come, its a museum. I've never taken that position.

We compete for entertainment dollars and that ranges from netflix to West Edmonton Mall and all the other attractions.

But up to 2013 (for obvious reasons) we have grown our admissions every year.
Why...because aviation and aviation history are exciting and we tell people that and do events that show them its exciting, inclusive, romantic and adventurous. And we are friendly and I tell you that has been challenging the last number of years.

So yes all facets of aviation can compete and draw people back from all the other distractions, but we have to work at it, give them reasons to, reach out to them and educate them (often without telling them we are educating them).

Part of this trick then is not just having a friendly face and getting people involved, but continually remind people that this activity is something that they want to have around. We need to appeal to their business sense - this is something that is very different stateside that we need to copy. We need to remind them that aviation contributes.

Agreed...but it also needs to be fun and all the other things I said above as well as open to everyone.

My 2 bits

Tom H

[ScreaminBanshee]

I think there needs to be an aviation connect that makes people want to fly. Turn on the TV and there are fishing channels that make people who are interested in fishing want to fish. There are racing channels who make people who are interested in racing want to race. There are golf channels, home reno channels, dancing channels, etc. Flying doesn't have any of that. Sure there is the Aviators and Ice Pilots but Ice Pilots is more situation entertainment and the aviators is too hard to find for the general public and on once a week so you really would have to be interested to seek it out. Even these shows don't accurately portray the desire to fly. In fact I think it is hard for a show to portray the joy of flying because it is a personal feeling. Also TV doesn't show the average person the satisfaction of landing a 25kt crosswind, completing your first cross country, the anxiety you feel the first time you are lost, the reflection on the time you did something dumb and got away with it. How can you accurately show people the feelings involved that keep us coming back? Again, I don't have the answer. Perhaps a youtube channel that is dedicated to grassroots flying?

On another note, how do you compete with the distractions? Perhaps we need to advertise at golf courses motorcycle shops, etc.

[Tom H]

I think there needs to be an aviation connect that makes people want to fly. Turn on the TV and there are fishing channels that make people who are interested in fishing want to fish. There are racing channels who make people who are interested in racing want to race. There are golf channels, home reno channels, dancing channels, etc. Flying doesn't have any of that. Sure there is the Aviators and Ice Pilots but Ice Pilots is more situation entertainment and the aviators is too hard to find for the general public and on once a week so you really would have to be interested to seek it out.

I think the connect is already there...and if you think of it there is lots on the tube
- Ice Pilots
- Arctic Air
- Aviators
- Dangerous Flights
- Mayday
- ACES on History
- Dust Up
and others....that are all doing well

Plus all kinds of one offs like Hitlers Stealth Fighter, The lost Nuke and a few more.

So there is enough demand in the media to make it viable for the various channels to spend to get the series and the demand keeps them on air.

And the magazines.....look at the subscription numbers (I do as we evaluate advertising), far beyond the number of pilots that exist.

Then there is the whole "Sim" world...which is huge.

Personally I think we need to look more local to open a door in our various areas.

Even these shows don't accurately portray the desire to fly. In fact I think it is hard for a show to portray the joy of flying because it is a personal feeling. Also TV doesn't show the average person the satisfaction of landing a 25kt crosswind, completing your first cross country, the anxiety you feel the first time you are lost, the reflection on the time you did something dumb and got away with it. How can you accurately show people the feelings involved that keep us coming back? Again, I don't have the answer. Perhaps a youtube channel that is dedicated to grassroots flying?

Wow, can I ever relate to this...particularly the dumb (when I was a kid) stuff.

It could be done much better...but no one seems to have tried. Likely the cost of production.

The Youtube channel idea is a good one

On another note, how do you compete with the distractions? Perhaps we need to advertise at golf courses motorcycle shops, etc.

Aviation businesses need to of course and your suggestions are good ones.

Customer service is another...you would not believe the number of mid-upper income types I have met that got 1/2 through a private and quit because they did not feel well treated. It's frightening.

As a community though we really can't advertise in conventional ways.

But we can do many other things....

Tom