Regulation question multi / multi IFR instruction

[photofly]

I know of a student pilot that flew his buck fifty
to BC (from Ontario) for his x/c.

Right, but a PPL requires solo cross country time, for which a student pilot permit is sufficient. Float rating needs solo time too. A multi rating doesn't require any solo multi time, though. I take your point about 401.26. I guess your point is that even if it's not required, it's permitted.

I wonder if my insurance company would cover me solo on my own twin, pre-rating.

[Colonel Sanders]

I wonder if my insurance company would cover me solo on my own twin, pre-rating.

With sufficient RG hours, sure.

[trey kule]

With sufficient RG hours, sure.

Or.....just do it like those colleges that are training the future gods of the sky......and just leave the gear extended all the time

[New_PIC]

I wonder if my insurance company would cover me solo on my own twin, pre-rating.

With sufficient RG hours, sure.

Technically, you only need to have liability insurance, right? Out of curiosity, a while ago I put in for a bunch of online quotes through the link on the COPA website just to see what difference various coverages would make. I was using the ID for a SE complex type aircraft. That was with my brand new PPL, less than 60 tt, and 0 RG hours. Minimum coverage was amazingly cheap! I'm not saying minimum coverage is a good idea, but it was cheap.

[tonyhunt]

I wonder if my insurance company would cover me solo on my own twin, pre-rating.

Should not be an issue. I flew my Baron down to Cornwall solo to do the M-rating. The only limitation was no passengers. Insurance company was fine with it.

My four-bar instructor was insisting the trip had to be dual. So I went a day early, without him.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I wonder if my insurance company would cover me solo on my own twin, pre-rating.

Should not be an issue. I flew my Baron down to Cornwall solo to do the M-rating. The only limitation was no passengers. Insurance company was fine with it.

My four-bar instructor was insisting the trip had to be dual. So I went a day early, without him.

So who authorized your solo trip ?

[Colonel Sanders]

Probably his examiner

[tonyhunt]

Probably his examiner

Exactly. He said if the application form was signed, bring the aeroplane down and we'll get her done. So I did.

[Colonel Sanders]

401.26(c) is simply awesome.

As a large purple dinosaur once said, "Use your imagination!"

[Big Pistons Forever]

Probably his examiner

Exactly. He said if the application form was signed, bring the aeroplane down and we'll get her done. So I did.

Good for you as there is no way any examiner I know would have authorized the flight. Their job is to examine the candidate, not take responsibility for getting the student to the test site. That is IMO wholly the responsibility of the instructor.

If I was asked to authorize solo flight for a ME student of mine who needed to get to the examiner I would say yes provided the student showed me he had adequately prepared for the flight. I will not recommend anyone who I don't think is safe to fly a twin so in my mind the ride is a formality and therefore, if I recommend a student, then I also by definition think he would be safe to fly his airplane to the ride solo.

I am disappointed, but not surprised, by the instructors refusal to authorize the flight. Sadly I think good ME training and IFR, for that matter, is the hardest training to get because there are so many instructors who haven't a clue about the real world operation of these aircraft.

[Colonel Sanders]

I recommend a student, then I also by definition think he would be safe to fly his airplane to the ride solo

Exactly.

I am disappointed, but not surprised, by the instructors refusal to authorize the flight

I strongly suspect that he wanted to log another glorious
1.0 MPIC (0.5 there, 0.5 back).

Instructors get really, really weird about MPIC.
Like watching a bunch of drunken sailors in a
bar fight over a whore.

there are so many instructors who haven't a clue about the real world operation of these aircraft

That's because there are so many instructors
fighting over who gets to log MPIC

I am willing to wage that over 90% of the FTU
instructors teaching multi, faced with this scenario
would have an identical outcome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqmomTUVsAw


despite all of their attention to paperwork and
irrelevant details.

They can't land a single on one wheel in a cross-
wind, and they sure as hell aren't prepared for
an engine failure after takeoff. They can't hand-
fly an ILS to 100 feet, either. Why would they
need to? Stick & rudder skills are obsolete, we
have been told for decades. Pilots are "systems
managers" now, TC Inspectors keep telling me.

[tonyhunt]

Probably his examiner

Exactly. He said if the application form was signed, bring the aeroplane down and we'll get her done. So I did.

I am disappointed, but not surprised, by the instructors refusal to authorize the flight. Sadly I think good ME training and IFR, for that matter, is the hardest training to get because there are so many instructors who haven't a clue about the real world operation of these aircraft.

The examiner was aware of what was going on. It was all about the MPIC.

This particular instructor had no time in a Baron prior to flying with me. The instructor had never seen the classic Baron throttle and flaps layout before, nor used an autopilot, but he was the flying club's designated multi instructor. I had 15 hours flying with the previous owner, but since we were both PPLs the time was not logged. The previous owner had 1500 hours Baron time, my instructor had 50 hours of Duchess time. After this episode I found an instructor for my IFR who knew the airplane better and could teach. I was persona non grata at the flying club for a few months. Just part of my introduction to aviation.

[Colonel Sanders]

I was persona non grata at the flying club

This is a painful lesson I learned in aviation.

It's considered perfectly OK to crash airplanes. However,
God help you, if you hurt someone's feelings.

As I have observed before, it was all over when they stopped
keeping score for children's soccer.

PS I do everything I can, to avoid multi time. Boring as hell.

there is no way any examiner I know would have authorized the flight

The examiner Tony is referring to is not your run-of-the-mill
guy. It will be a sad day when he retires (soon).

At the risk of appearing maudlin, there seems to be a constant
process of the Old Greats slowly disappearing. Big shoes to
fill, which generally aren't.

Like the CFI who supervised the buck-fifty student pilot solo
to BC, and supervised hundreds of hours of solo float time. He
died about 10 years ago. He was CFI for thirty years, and even
though TC made his life very difficult, everyone looked up to him.

[Colonel Sanders]

Passing Of The Greats:

My old buddy Cal has been dead long enough that
I can tell this story. He was the guy that had at
least a thousand hours of flight time, before I was
able to coax him, kicking and screaming, through
the newly-created RPP in the 1990's.

Cal was not an educated man, but he had mountains
of character and integrity, and was a master craftsman.
The pilgrimage to Oshkosh was made every year, where
he looked (and learned).

He was one of my best friends. He had a homebuilt
supercub on wheels that he built. He then built a second
supercub on floats which was a thing of beauty. But typical
of Cal, he didn't do much paperwork on the second cub.
He took electrical tape and put the same letters on the
side of the second cub as on the first, which had a complete
set of paper. I told him that if they caught him, he would
be strung up by his thumbs for such a serious paperwork
offense. Cal reasonably replied that he could only fly one
airplane at a time.

He was the one with hundreds of hours of solo (mostly, ahem)
flight time on floats. I didn't think getting a float rating was a
big deal (5 hrs back then) but as I said, Cal wasn't real big on
paper. Good stick, though. Not a great stick, but a good stick,
knew his limits, stayed out of trouble, never bent an airplane
and he knew a lot more than I did about flying on skiis.

Cal died a few years back, and when a close friend of mine
passes, I don't like to let the occasion go quietly.

Cal wasn't big on religion, and I knew the preacher was going
to jump in with both feet during the funeral. But I knew what
Cal would like.

It was a crappy day. Low cloud and vis, freezing rain about
but I got up in the Pitts with a similarly insane friend on my
wing. He wanted to lead, but no way.

I had a friend on the ground parked outside the graveyard with
binoculars and an ICOM let me know when the preacher was
about to start yammering. Like I said, Cal wasn't really big
into religion. He flew on sundays, and did his worshipping
in the sky.

But as the preacher stepped up to talk at the grave, my buddy
on the ground called us in, and I circled the grave, putting my
(and my wing's) prop disc right on the hole in the ground that
they were going to put my old buddy Cal. RPM all the way up.

Apparently it was totally deafening on the ground. Some
distance away, my buddy on the ground keyed the mike and
my prop noise was really loud in my headset. Neat.

No one could hear a word the preacher said. Cal would have
like that

I'm sure that I offended all sorts of left-wing twats and tree-
huggers, but oh well. A fitting tribute to my old pal.




A year ago, just off the coast of Key West, saying goodbye to
another old friend, buried at sea.