That's a pretty spiffy machine. It's on a couple of my fantasy lists.
What makes it worth the amounts mentioned in a recent thread about the guys getting out of one near MooseJaw? 6-10 million dollars.
I'm frugal perhaps but 3.9 seems likes lot of million. 10? Is there no accurate public record? How is it even not just known by people? "The Harvard II cost this many dollars."
Is everyone like me? "Here's my taxes. Get yourselves something nice."
They actually bought Harvards and the cost must be secret. Otherwise there would not be several different opinions of what the cost might be.
Why are they as expensive as they might be?
Safety features like ejection seats are probably pricey. The airframe by it's self won't be free. Avionics. I'm not surprised to be over 4 million at that point. What else?
Ok we can't make our own fighters. Why can't we get one off trainers from bombardier? Bombardier might not exist if there was not assistance from the government. They should surprise the military. "Hey Canada, thanks for that loan. We made some turbine trainers for you. They're our version of the tutor, you just need radios and seats."
I'm not sure what you are trying to say...
As kev994 pointed out, the RCAF doesn't own any Harvard II.
Do you think we spend more money for flight training with the Bombardier partnership than we did when Tutors (way many more Tutors than we use Harvards for the same amount of flying hours) were used instead?
I honestly have no idea how much is spent on the Bombardier partnership or the tutors. I am not upset or excited about either. I'm just curious.
Are you trying to tell me we are saving a lot of money?
I'm still wondering if
A- can we accurately find out how much a Harvard II costs?
B- what components make them cost possibly 10 million dollars?
C- is there no way something costing 2 million can be used for this training?
Yes, much like Steve Martin "I would like to be a millionaire and never pay taxes."
Sorry Tutor fans I like them fine but believe it was probably past the right time to retire them.
I don't feel burdened by my share of the militaries cost. I would like the military to be able to buy the best equipment and don't mind paying another $20 per month. I am concerned that might not always occur and other citizens of Canada have a right to their opinion regarding purchasing any equipment.
I don't think anyone who really know how much they cost will come post about it but I hope it happens.
We can talk about other stuff if you want while we wait.
Military aircraft are generally low production run and highly specialized. In most cases, very few corporations would commit to the development and production of an aircraft without a cost-plus-fee contract in place.
This makes them more expensive than commercial products with long production runs and a ready market. It also means the price changes based on the direct cost of production (which generally goes up year after year) and the amortization of the development costs (which go down with each airframe produced).
It also allows for remarkable abuses in terms of lack of financial accountability and inefficiency.... in the case of Lockheed Martin and the F-35, it was literally a license to print money.
Pop n Fresh wrote:I honestly have no idea how much is spent on the Bombardier partnership or the tutors. I am not upset or excited about either. I'm just curious.
Are you trying to tell me we are saving a lot of money?
I'm still wondering if
A- can we accurately find out how much a Harvard II costs?
B- what components make them cost possibly 10 million dollars?
C- is there no way something costing 2 million can be used for this training?
Yes, much like Steve Martin "I would like to be a millionaire and never pay taxes."
Sorry Tutor fans I like them fine but believe it was probably past the right time to retire them.
I don't feel burdened by my share of the militaries cost. I would like the military to be able to buy the best equipment and don't mind paying another $20 per month. I am concerned that might not always occur and other citizens of Canada have a right to their opinion regarding purchasing any equipment.
I don't think anyone who really know how much they cost will come post about it but I hope it happens.
We can talk about other stuff if you want while we wait.
The contract expires in 2020 and the airforce is starting to look for the next iteration, if you've got a better idea you could always submit a bid.
Pop n Fresh wrote:I honestly have no idea how much is spent on the Bombardier partnership or the tutors. I am not upset or excited about either. I'm just curious.
Are you trying to tell me we are saving a lot of money?
I'm still wondering if
A- can we accurately find out how much a Harvard II costs?
B- what components make them cost possibly 10 million dollars?
C- is there no way something costing 2 million can be used for this training?
Yes, much like Steve Martin "I would like to be a millionaire and never pay taxes."
Sorry Tutor fans I like them fine but believe it was probably past the right time to retire them.
I don't feel burdened by my share of the militaries cost. I would like the military to be able to buy the best equipment and don't mind paying another $20 per month. I am concerned that might not always occur and other citizens of Canada have a right to their opinion regarding purchasing any equipment.
I don't think anyone who really know how much they cost will come post about it but I hope it happens.
We can talk about other stuff if you want while we wait.
The Tutors have been retired from active training since 2000, the only ones remaining active are the Snowbirds and a few in cold lake for experimental stuff. I know there has been some discussion of Canada procuring some BAE Hawks for the Snowbirds to fly. I would prefer they use the CF-18s
The quoted cost is a difficult thing to nail down. Are we talking about the initial cost of the first 25 tail numbers off the assembly line? Are you talking about production cost of the last few off the assembly line after over 500 have been delivered to the US alone? The final cost after modifications for one particular client? Does that include the cost of all the people working in the project office who put the proposal together? The cost including "training and support"? If so, over how many years?
Purchase cost of one unit equipped as owned by milit-air. My caregiver read .. .'s link it did not mention how many planes they bought for $720 million.
I'm also interested in what cool extra options they have in addition to those Martin Baker seats?
kev994 wrote:They are owned by Bombardier, so your tax dollars have no right to know what Bombardier payed for them.
If that's the case, then the recent total write-off of one airframe is between Bombardier and the insurance company. OFC, if the Canadian taxpayer is indeed the insurer, and needs to replace the written off aircraft, then we have come full circle, and once again have every right to know.
kev994 wrote:They are owned by Bombardier, so your tax dollars have no right to know what Bombardier payed for them.
If that's the case, then the recent total write-off of one airframe is between Bombardier and the insurance company. OFC, if the Canadian taxpayer is indeed the insurer, and needs to replace the written off aircraft, then we have come full circle, and once again have every right to know.
This would likely be covered in the contract, I'm not familiar with these sort of ins and outs of it. I suspect you would need to submit an Access to Information request to get that info, unless someone has already done that at posted it on the web somewhere.
No big secret - the initial per unit cost was $4MUSD, follow-on replacements cost BI $6MUSD.
They insure the airframes themselves. They are, for all intents and purposes, civilian aircraft that are operated by the CF. Each tail has a civilian registration (just not painted on the tail).
Pop n Fresh wrote:Purchase cost of one unit equipped as owned by milit-air. My caregiver read .. .'s link it did not mention how many planes they bought for $720 million.
I'm also interested in what cool extra options they have in addition to those Martin Baker seats?
Air, tilt and cruise. We didn't spring for white walls though.
Is there no accurate public record? How is it even not just known by people? "The Harvard II cost this many dollars."
