Making a great Salary now, should I move?

[I WAS Birddog]

To the author of this thread:

There's a term that has recently been popping up lately.

"Comfortably complacent"

I know a guy, that knows a guy, that knows a guy.....that was in your predicament.
However he recently took a an airline gig at a 50% reduction to his present wage.

Why did he do it?

It wasn't really about the money...it was the fear of being comfortably-complacent leading him down the path of obsolete and Jurassic skills and knowledge in his career. By not constantly trying to improve your skills and knowledge you become as disposable as the iPhone 3.

He was of the mindset of "Changes in Latitudes". I think he may still be. However I think he just realised how far behind he was in technology that is ever changing.
The hardest thing for this guy to do is unlearn the old in order to relearn the new....and from what I understand it gets harder as one ages.

I don't know. I just heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy

[SgtStroka]

To the author of this thread:

There's a term that has recently been popping up lately.

"Comfortably complacent"

I know a guy, that knows a guy, that knows a guy.....that was in your predicament.
However he recently took a an airline gig at a 50% reduction to his present wage.

Why did he do it?

It wasn't really about the money...it was the fear of being comfortably-complacent leading him down the path of obsolete and Jurassic skills and knowledge in his career. By not constantly trying to improve your skills and knowledge you become as disposable as the iPhone 3.

He was of the mindset of "Changes in Latitudes". I think he may still be. However I think he just realised how far behind he was in technology that is ever changing.
The hardest thing for this guy to do is unlearn the old in order to relearn the new....and from what I understand it gets harder as one ages.

I don't know. I just heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy

In the end i said no thanks to AC.

It was a fun experience going through the interview and the hiring process....(a bit long) however that had no impact on my decision. What it came down too, "If it isn't broke don't fix it".

BirdDog you brought up great point, I too worry about getting behind the curve with the new tech and tools these AC come equipped with these days, luckily these oil companies like to keep us in some relatively modern aircraft switching to new stuff every 6-7 years it seems.

When I did tell the nice gal from HR my situation she wished me good luck and said thanks for the notice. It still stung a tiny bit knowing I would probably never be in the front seat of a 787 though.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

R

[Changes in Latitudes]

luckily these oil companies like to keep us in some relatively modern aircraft switching to new stuff every 6-7 years it seems.

When I did tell the nice gal from HR my situation she wished me good luck and said thanks for the notice. It still stung a tiny bit knowing I would probably never be in the front seat of a 787 though.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

R

Sounds like you really did your homework on this one, I admire that and your decision. The only way to find which avenue is right for you, is to explore every avenue and you've allowed yourself that opportunity. Not too many folks do that.

[777LR]

I think AC & rouge is still the best airline job in Canada.
Good money (5 yr rouge FO pay you will make 95-100k. no OT)
FYI, Guys that were hired in 2010 are a few numbers from A319 Captain at rouge.
Good health and travel benefits
Good lifestyle (socialized bidding at rouge)
Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations
Bases all over the country
.....

[yycflyguy]

I think AC & rouge is still the best airline job in Canada.
Good money (5 yr rouge FO pay you will make 95-100k. no OT)
FYI, Guys that were hired in 2010 are a few numbers from A319 Captain at rouge.
Good health and travel benefits
Good lifestyle (socialized bidding at rouge)
Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations
Bases all over the country
.....

... but would you bid it?

[DH772]

... but would you bid it?

PPL with no seniority and stuck on reserve...most likely.

[watermeth]

Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations

compared to ?
diverse fleet : how long before you get another type ?
diverse destination : see question 1

[777LR]

Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations

compared to ?
diverse fleet : how long before you get another type ?
diverse destination : see question 1

Compared to all the other Canadian airlines. After 4 years under the new contract ( or earlier if the company needs you) you can bid to fly a different type. You will have the chance to fly all over the world.

I think AC & rouge is still the best airline job in Canada.
Good money (5 yr rouge FO pay you will make 95-100k. no OT)
FYI, Guys that were hired in 2010 are a few numbers from A319 Captain at rouge.
Good health and travel benefits
Good lifestyle (socialized bidding at rouge)
Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations
Bases all over the country
.....

... but would you bid it?

Yes, better lifestyle and moula in my case.

[watermeth]

You will have the chance to fly all over the world

That's what I'm doing already.
How long before going to asia in the right seat @ rouge.... ?

[777LR]

rouge doesn't go to Asia..

[watermeth]

rouge doesn't go to Asia..

I know, hence my question...
All over the world...

[777LR]

rouge doesn't go to Asia..

I know, hence my question...
All over the world...

hahaha!!
go troll somewhere else.

[shagger]

rouge doesn't go to Asia..

Not yet... But it will

[yycflyguy]

Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations

compared to ?
diverse fleet : how long before you get another type ?
diverse destination : see question 1

Compared to all the other Canadian airlines. After 4 years under the new contract ( or earlier if the company needs you) you can bid to fly a different type. You will have the chance to fly all over the world.

I think AC & rouge is still the best airline job in Canada.
Good money (5 yr rouge FO pay you will make 95-100k. no OT)
FYI, Guys that were hired in 2010 are a few numbers from A319 Captain at rouge.
Good health and travel benefits
Good lifestyle (socialized bidding at rouge)
Most diverse fleet
Most diverse destinations
Bases all over the country
.....

... but would you bid it?

Yes, better lifestyle and moula in my case.

5 year mainline FO pay on the A320 was about $105k some were awarded B767 mainline with 5-6 years service at +$120k
LCC A319 rouge Captain with 0 YOS makes $129k
LCC B767 rouge Captain with 0 years makes $118k
Travel benefits: AC/rouge new hires go behind Jazz, Georgian, flight attendants, agents, maintenance, ramp employees... also behind managers who are hired after.

Your better lifestyle and moula must be a result of your fortuitous past bidding which allowed you to enter the pay scale at a higher rate... those with 0 YOS in position are screwed.

[livin']

..
5 year mainline FO pay on the A320 was about $105k some were awarded B767 mainline with 5-6 years service at +$120k
LCC A319 rouge Captain with 0 YOS makes $129k
LCC B767 rouge Captain with 0 years makes $118k
Travel benefits: AC/rouge new hires go behind Jazz, Georgian, flight attendants, agents, maintenance, ramp employees... also behind managers who are hired after.

Your better lifestyle and moula must be a result of your fortuitous past bidding which allowed you to enter the pay scale at a higher rate... those with 0 YOS in position are screwed.

Your Travel benefits statements is misleading and false.

I cannot speak for the 767 rouge operation but the 319 job is significantly better than any narrow body job that I have had at AC, that includes being senior on the embraer and midpack 320. Your year 1 calculation is roughly correct however it only takes a few flights to increase that wage. In january my pay before tax was over 20k for 14 days worked. This won't happen every month but if I don't do any more extra trips for the rest of the year I am already at $145k for the year.

Unless you are in the top 10% on your equipment then rouge might be a good option. It works for me but it might not for everyone.

[yycflyguy]

Not sure why you think the travel benefits are false. All new hires will go behind every existing employee group. Future "managers" will all go ahead of new hires, regardless of seniority, based on a higher priority.

The year 1 "calculation" is fact for LCC767/319CA. It is taken directly from company pay scale. You admitted that your January had extra flying associated with it skewing your yearly projection. The fact remains that pilots are being paid less to do the same job at rouge.

[DH772]

Not sure why you think the travel benefits are false. All new hires will go behind every existing employee group. Future "managers" will all go ahead of new hires, regardless of seniority, based on a higher priority.

All new hires go behind existing employee groups? How so?
Aren't all AC pilots, FA, Rouge Pilots, AC maintenance...etc all C2's? So how are they of a lower priority group?

[snag]

I think the implication is that new hires go behind those senior to them (existing). Managers, however new, now have access to B priority passes and bump all us mere mortals.

[whiteguy]

5 year mainline FO pay on the A320 was about $105k some were awarded B767 mainline with 5-6 years service at +$120k
LCC A319 rouge Captain with 0 YOS makes $129k
LCC B767 rouge Captain with 0 years makes $118k
Travel benefits: AC/rouge new hires go behind Jazz, Georgian, flight attendants, agents, maintenance, ramp employees... also behind managers who are hired after.

Your better lifestyle and moula must be a result of your fortuitous past bidding which allowed you to enter the pay scale at a higher rate... those with 0 YOS in position are screwed.

New AC/Rouge hires travel based on the their seniority date just like everyone else. That's the way it's always been, not sure why it would be any different now. AFAIK Georgian travels on a lower priority, unless that's changed. Hasn't Jazz changed to? After a certain date Jazz employees are a lower priority to.

Or am I completely wrong and the travel benefits at AC have changed all together.

[livin']

New AC/Rouge hires travel based on the their seniority date just like everyone else. That's the way it's always been, not sure why it would be any different now. AFAIK Georgian travels on a lower priority, unless that's changed. Hasn't Jazz changed to? After a certain date Jazz employees are a lower priority to.

Or am I completely wrong and the travel benefits at AC have changed all together.

You are correct, YYCflyguy is wrong. new hire pilots at rouge are on the Air Canada pilot list and receive the same travel befits as someone at mainline. You travel on a C2 pass based on company seniority, exactly the same as a 777 captain does. Georgian/jazz (hired after a certain date) travel on a lower priority, you will travel behind a gate agent with more seniority but ahead of one with less. Managers do have a hire travel priority, so a manager hired yesterday will have a hire travel priority than you and a 777 captain with 30 yrs service.

This is fact. YYCflyguys' statement had some truths but in general was misleading and false.

[livin']

Not sure why you think the travel benefits are false. All new hires will go behind every existing employee group. Future "managers" will all go ahead of new hires, regardless of seniority, based on a higher priority.

The year 1 "calculation" is fact for LCC767/319CA. It is taken directly from company pay scale. You admitted that your January had extra flying associated with it skewing your yearly projection. The fact remains that pilots are being paid less to do the same job at rouge.

You are correct on the pay. Like I said, it works for me but won't be for everyone. It is what you make it and while the pay scale is lower the potential to earn more is there. There is no comparison in lifestyle when comparing rouge to junior reserve at air canada. For a new hire the pay is similar and if you want to, you can earn more at rouge than mainline.

Not sure who you work for but if you have ever been on reserve at Air canada and like to have a life then you might know what I'm talking about.

[yycflyguy]

5 year mainline FO pay on the A320 was about $105k some were awarded B767 mainline with 5-6 years service at +$120k
LCC A319 rouge Captain with 0 YOS makes $129k
LCC B767 rouge Captain with 0 years makes $118k
Travel benefits: AC/rouge new hires go behind Jazz, Georgian, flight attendants, agents, maintenance, ramp employees... also behind managers who are hired after.

Your better lifestyle and moula must be a result of your fortuitous past bidding which allowed you to enter the pay scale at a higher rate... those with 0 YOS in position are screwed.

New AC/Rouge hires travel based on the their seniority date just like everyone else. That's the way it's always been, not sure why it would be any different now. AFAIK Georgian travels on a lower priority, unless that's changed. Hasn't Jazz changed to? After a certain date Jazz employees are a lower priority to.

Or am I completely wrong and the travel benefits at AC have changed all together.

That is more correct. My mistake.

[yycflyguy]

Not sure why you think the travel benefits are false. All new hires will go behind every existing employee group. Future "managers" will all go ahead of new hires, regardless of seniority, based on a higher priority.

The year 1 "calculation" is fact for LCC767/319CA. It is taken directly from company pay scale. You admitted that your January had extra flying associated with it skewing your yearly projection. The fact remains that pilots are being paid less to do the same job at rouge.

You are correct on the pay. Like I said, it works for me but won't be for everyone. It is what you make it and while the pay scale is lower the potential to earn more is there. There is no comparison in lifestyle when comparing rouge to junior reserve at air canada. For a new hire the pay is similar and if you want to, you can earn more at rouge than mainline.

Not sure who you work for but if you have ever been on reserve at Air canada and like to have a life then you might know what I'm talking about.

Is there any concern/talk at rouge that as it grows and more senior pilots are forced off mainline positions and into LCC CA positions that existing LCC guys with lower seniority will be forced out of the left seat and into a different position? There are many holding CA positions at rouge that can't at mainline.

[shagger]

Not sure why you think the travel benefits are false. All new hires will go behind every existing employee group. Future "managers" will all go ahead of new hires, regardless of seniority, based on a higher priority.

The year 1 "calculation" is fact for LCC767/319CA. It is taken directly from company pay scale. You admitted that your January had extra flying associated with it skewing your yearly projection. The fact remains that pilots are being paid less to do the same job at rouge.

You are correct on the pay. Like I said, it works for me but won't be for everyone. It is what you make it and while the pay scale is lower the potential to earn more is there. There is no comparison in lifestyle when comparing rouge to junior reserve at air canada. For a new hire the pay is similar and if you want to, you can earn more at rouge than mainline.

Not sure who you work for but if you have ever been on reserve at Air canada and like to have a life then you might know what I'm talking about.

Is there any concern/talk at rouge that as it grows and more senior pilots are forced off mainline positions and into LCC CA positions that existing LCC guys with lower seniority will be forced out of the left seat and into a different position? There are many holding CA positions at rouge that can't at mainline.

As they are all ACPA pilots yes that is entirely a possibility.

[livin']

Is there any concern/talk at rouge that as it grows and more senior pilots are forced off mainline positions and into LCC CA positions that existing LCC guys with lower seniority will be forced out of the left seat and into a different position? There are many holding CA positions at rouge that can't at mainline.

Yes, ACPA pilots bid equipment on a seniority based system and if there are reductions then people can be bumped out of their spots.

No sure where you get your information, or what you define as "many" but there is currently 1 captain at LCC that could not hold a mainline captain spot.

Are you getting some joy out of posting speculation as fact?