Just booked for an inital Class I ride and would like to hear what others have had to do on flight tests and any comments etc..
Thanks Glen
Class I Ride?
Moderators: Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia
You will be asked to teach something related to the first section of the FIG,(learning factors, curve of remembering). You will also be asked to critique the examiner's teaching both in the air and on the ground. Be prepared to answer questions about supervision (know yours CARs). In the air you will be expected to give a skills demonstration, on this score expect a steep turn and/or a forced approach.
Use developmental teaching method almost exclusivly.
Your examiner will demo an exercise, you will act as student, you will be critiqued and you will have to critique the critique. (Are we there yet?)
Your personal flying skills are on trial here more than they will ever be (at the level of control and precission [ just so we don't start a discussion about PDM under pressure]).
Your examiner will demo an exercise, you will act as student, you will be critiqued and you will have to critique the critique. (Are we there yet?)
Your personal flying skills are on trial here more than they will ever be (at the level of control and precission [ just so we don't start a discussion about PDM under pressure]).
Pilots get higher, SCUBA Divers do it deeper!
I have heard of being asked to prep and do a 360 degree forced approach. Around here anyway, no ones it, no one teaches it. Candiate says he's never done one. Examiner said "ok, I'll be back in 10 minutes, be ready to teach it". Then in the A/C expects a flawless demonstration (as per class 1 standards).
True story, about one year ago out of YHM.
True story, about one year ago out of YHM.
I don't see that happening. The flight test standards are outcome based. What that means is that you are required to achieve a certain outcome, and the method used to achieve it is up to you, (within reason).
There is nothing in the flight test standards or the FTM that says you must use a certain method to do a forced approach. It only says that you must safely make an appropriate field. (Safely means maintain your speed, do engine warmings etc).
It is unlikely in the extreme that the inspector will tell you to teach the forced approach a certain way. If they do, (which they won't), you will have cause to complain.
There is nothing in the flight test standards or the FTM that says you must use a certain method to do a forced approach. It only says that you must safely make an appropriate field. (Safely means maintain your speed, do engine warmings etc).
It is unlikely in the extreme that the inspector will tell you to teach the forced approach a certain way. If they do, (which they won't), you will have cause to complain.
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My ancient instructor used to tell the story of his Class I ride:
the examiner said 'tell me when an incipient spin becomes a fully developed spin'.
To which Doug replied 'I don't give a shit!'
I wonder what he would say about a 360 degree forced approach. There has to be a bit of practicality - most students trying to do it that way would panic and end up spiralling in.
the examiner said 'tell me when an incipient spin becomes a fully developed spin'.
To which Doug replied 'I don't give a shit!'
I wonder what he would say about a 360 degree forced approach. There has to be a bit of practicality - most students trying to do it that way would panic and end up spiralling in.
I agree, and so did my Class 1, about the obscurity of the 360. But the flight test standards say that the examiner will choose a lesson to prep, and a lesson to present in flight, plus other exercises. The 360 is a method that is in the FTM and therefore required knowledge of an instructor.
Saying that you can do the approach however you like, some may argue, is like teaching how to climb and only teaching best rate.
I'm not saying that it WILL be on the test. Just that it is fair game. All I wanted to point out was that anything in the FIG/FTM is fair game, and as a class 1 you are supposed to demonstrate a high degree of knowledge of that book suitable to teach class 4s and be able to do a PERFECT demonstration of anything in that book. On the assumption you are pretty darn profecient at most exercises by the time you are a class 2, testing some obscure thing that is technically allowed would ensure that you have mastered your flight instructor skills.
Saying that you can do the approach however you like, some may argue, is like teaching how to climb and only teaching best rate.
I'm not saying that it WILL be on the test. Just that it is fair game. All I wanted to point out was that anything in the FIG/FTM is fair game, and as a class 1 you are supposed to demonstrate a high degree of knowledge of that book suitable to teach class 4s and be able to do a PERFECT demonstration of anything in that book. On the assumption you are pretty darn profecient at most exercises by the time you are a class 2, testing some obscure thing that is technically allowed would ensure that you have mastered your flight instructor skills.
I think it's important that as a class one your are open to new ideas. This means staying current on all trends and documents including the FTM. It's the same as going for a ride and not knowing the difference between the private and commercial standard for a steep turn. Using the excuse that you haven't read the flight guide is an excuse for failure not that your ready to be a class one. Now you don't have to agree with what is being pushed but you better have a good argument on why not. The 360 forced approach has been carried over from the airforce when jets made a large arc on landing keeping it high until over the threshold and executing a break to loose altitude and land. I dislike this procedure but it still exists.
I alway advise instructor candidates to talk to the examiner before the ride and pick his brain ( be nice here ). See what is being pushed and be able to do steep turns (private or commercial) . They alway check steep turns in this area.
I alway advise instructor candidates to talk to the examiner before the ride and pick his brain ( be nice here ). See what is being pushed and be able to do steep turns (private or commercial) . They alway check steep turns in this area.
I did a recurrent training with an older fella, 75 years of age who was very impressive. His standard forced was using the 360 method and he made it work like a charm. Done correctly it is a great tool and may be easier then the key point approach. Opinions of it just depends on who does your first demo of it.
Advantage of the 360: it keeps you over your field.
Disadvantage: allowing yourself to get too low at the wrong point in the circle.
In my opinion it takes very little practice to master it, if you can relate distance and altitude to a circle as well as a straight line.
Disadvantage: allowing yourself to get too low at the wrong point in the circle.
In my opinion it takes very little practice to master it, if you can relate distance and altitude to a circle as well as a straight line.
Pilots get higher, SCUBA Divers do it deeper!
I'm not knocking the 360 forced. But on the Instructor Ride the directive will be, "Teach me to do a forced.". The method taught will be up to you.
It's a great idea for instructors to be able to do both methods, and I make sure my class 4s can.
On a different note, you can pretty much take it to the bank that you will be asked to perform (as a skills demonstration) a forced approach. It is possible that you will get two (One in the practice area, one in the circuit). I suggest that you brush up on both.
It's a great idea for instructors to be able to do both methods, and I make sure my class 4s can.
On a different note, you can pretty much take it to the bank that you will be asked to perform (as a skills demonstration) a forced approach. It is possible that you will get two (One in the practice area, one in the circuit). I suggest that you brush up on both.
I'm probably just sentimental, but it nearly brought a tear to my eye - I didn't know anyone knew what high key/low key was any more 
The DOT, which is filled nowadays with class 1 instructors who couldn't get a job flying twins, is really big on their rectangle circuit patterns.
Back on topic ... what differentiates a class 2 ride from a class 1 is that a class 2 is supposed to be able to supervise a 4. A class 1 is supposed to be able to sit down with a 250 hour commercial pilot and train him to be a class 4. On the ground, this involved helping the prospective class 4 create a lesson plan. Don't bother showing up unless you can do this.
In my experience, the ground portion of the class 1 ride is the tough part. The flying is the easy part, at least it friggen well ought to be, with 1000 hours of instructing in your logbook that most people have by the time they show up for their 1. If you get to the aircraft, you've got it made. Make the Inspector do all the work, and critique his flying. Yawn.
The DOT, which is filled nowadays with class 1 instructors who couldn't get a job flying twins, is really big on their rectangle circuit patterns.Back on topic ... what differentiates a class 2 ride from a class 1 is that a class 2 is supposed to be able to supervise a 4. A class 1 is supposed to be able to sit down with a 250 hour commercial pilot and train him to be a class 4. On the ground, this involved helping the prospective class 4 create a lesson plan. Don't bother showing up unless you can do this.
In my experience, the ground portion of the class 1 ride is the tough part. The flying is the easy part, at least it friggen well ought to be, with 1000 hours of instructing in your logbook that most people have by the time they show up for their 1. If you get to the aircraft, you've got it made. Make the Inspector do all the work, and critique his flying. Yawn.
On the subject of teaching forced approaches, I feel you should emphasise a number of ways a forced approach could be carried out, in addition to the "ideal" way of being a few thousand feet AGL, with a suitable field within a few miles to do either a 360 or keypoint approach.
Speaking from experience, when I had a complete engine failure in a C172 four years ago while flying as a PPL, everything went out the door as far as procedures.....i mean I did most of the stuff I could: cause check, radio call, etc.......but I was over fairly unwelcoming terrain and had to glide in a straight line about 5 miles to the only suitable area I knew, and even then I didn't have a field selected until about 600-800' AGL, and this 'field' was picked simply because there was no other choice with about 20 seconds remaining.
The forced is one thing we obviously hope will never have to happen, but if it does, the ideal pilot will have the general skills to be able to handle a variety of situations, rather than just think of doing a 360 or keypoint approach. Not to say there is anything wrong with these two methods...I teach the keypoint method myself, but emphasise a lot of other factors to deal with that might make a keypoint approach unacceptable or unavailable.
Safe flying.
Speaking from experience, when I had a complete engine failure in a C172 four years ago while flying as a PPL, everything went out the door as far as procedures.....i mean I did most of the stuff I could: cause check, radio call, etc.......but I was over fairly unwelcoming terrain and had to glide in a straight line about 5 miles to the only suitable area I knew, and even then I didn't have a field selected until about 600-800' AGL, and this 'field' was picked simply because there was no other choice with about 20 seconds remaining.
The forced is one thing we obviously hope will never have to happen, but if it does, the ideal pilot will have the general skills to be able to handle a variety of situations, rather than just think of doing a 360 or keypoint approach. Not to say there is anything wrong with these two methods...I teach the keypoint method myself, but emphasise a lot of other factors to deal with that might make a keypoint approach unacceptable or unavailable.
Safe flying.
