Air Canada Rouge B767 with winglets ...

[bizjets101]

I see Air Canada Rouge's first winglet B767 arrived from S Korea with it's new paint and winglets added landed YYZ this morning. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA7092

Photo from Tom Podolec/CTV on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/news46/131 ... 5/sizes/l/

[sstaurus]

Ooh very purdy. I like red for AC, the way it should be. On a related note I'd like to see Rouge do a retro jet with the late 80s red stripes. For example:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Cana ... 1e9e6303ef

[GUMPS]

It'll look great with the crews fedora's.

[crj_705]

Looks nice, but why couldn't that work have been given to a CDN or USA based MRO aviation companY instead of going to a foreign company??? This is the sort of crap that AC loves to do...OUTSOURCE

[slam525i]

Looks nice, but why couldn't that work have been given to a CDN or USA based MRO aviation companY instead of going to a foreign company??? This is the sort of crap that AC loves to do...OUTSOURCE

Because it's a for-profit company ordering a 6000 man-hour job? Because if they paid more than they had to, without good justification, the share holders would want answers?

It's real life. It's economics. It's not the same as buying locally-sourced 100% organic cabbages from your corner store.

[flyer 1492]

Nice, half the paint for half the pay...

[Flying Low]

Good point about the shareholders! Maybe they should be asking why these weren't installed when they first became available...

[horizonav]

Good point about the shareholders! Maybe they should be asking why these weren't installed when they first became available...

Because when they became available, AVEOS had scope on the work, and it cost twice as much, and took twice as long to get the work done so they shelved the plan...

[av8ts]

So while Air Canada enjoys the anti-cabotage and other protection from foreign carriers given to them by the Canadian taxpayers they contract work out to foreign companies because those same taxpayers are too expensive.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media ... rates.html

Sounds like having your cake and eating it too and then giving your middle finger to the baker

[ratherbee]

All airlines are having work done offshore to keep costs and ticket prices down. Its a business reality in not just the airline industry.

As for the winglets, AC looked at doing this years ago but the cost could not be justified since these B767's were being replaced one for one with the new B787's. Now with rouge, these aircraft are staying in Canada providing new jobs and more competition on leisure routes.

AC still employs around 25,000 Canadians and pumps billions into our economy including $1B in BC alone! All of this in both official languages, with a HQ stuck in Montreal, with money-grabbing airport authorities, high airport rents and taxes, progressive human rights and labour laws, under the scrutiny of a cynical press.

This is a good news story so please try not to spin it negatively.

[Rowdy]

Saw it in YYZ this weekend. The rouge paint scheme is miles better than the 'mint' colour on the rest of the AC fleet. Winglets look good on the '67 too! The fedoras on the cabin crew inside it? Not so much...

[dstechnical]

service down, seat space down, the whole rouge concept is a downer

[yycflyguy]

Now with rouge, these aircraft are staying in Canada providing new jobs and more competition on leisure routes.

No. These are not new jobs. It is a transfer of existing mainline jobs to lower paying positions under the guise of being a LCC. No FIN increases, no employee increases. The only two groups forced into pay and work degradations were the pilots and FAs.

These are not new routes (aside from Venice, Edinburgh, Nice, and Lisbon). The majority of rogue destinations have been cannibalized from mainline. Rogue does not even offer a savings for passengers. The CASM reduction has only come in the form cramming more people into existing planes.

Air Canada used to focus on executive class passengers. Elite and super elite passengers. Now they want to go after the leisure market?

[CID]

The choice of MRO often depends on availability. Nothing wrong with going out of country. Just as there's nothing wrong with foreign airlines getting work done in Canada.

[Mig29]

Now with rouge, these aircraft are staying in Canada providing new jobs and more competition on leisure routes.

No. These are not new jobs. It is a transfer of existing mainline jobs to lower paying positions under the guise of being a LCC. No FIN increases, no employee increases. The only two groups forced into pay and work degradations were the pilots and FAs.

These are not new routes (aside from Venice, Edinburgh, Nice, and Lisbon). The majority of rogue destinations have been cannibalized from mainline. Rogue does not even offer a savings for passengers. The CASM reduction has only come in the form cramming more people into existing planes.

Air Canada used to focus on executive class passengers. Elite and super elite passengers. Now they want to go after the leisure market?

+ 1

PS. Does anyone know what is the cost of these winglets + plus installation cost? How much fuel can you expect to save on these 767s? I know few airlines operate them, so the numbers must be close to what AC expects to "save" using these winglets

[rudder]

PS. Does anyone know what is the cost of these winglets + plus installation cost? How much fuel can you expect to save on these 767s? I know few airlines operate them, so the numbers must be close to what AC expects to "save" using these winglets

USD$2.5M/ 5% fuel savings

[Mig29]

Thanks rudder.

I guess this begs another question. Using normal annual fuel burn of AC's 767 how much is that 5% of fuel valued at?

[YYZSaabGuy]

I guess this begs another question. Using normal annual fuel burn of AC's 767 how much is that 5% of fuel valued at?

I'll take a stab at this.

Cruise fuel burn for the 767-300ER is pegged at 4,700 - 5,000 kilograms per hour, based on data in an old pprune thread (various underlying assumptions around stepped climb, mach rate, winds, weight, engine type, etc.). Assume for simplicity that higher climb to cruise burn is exactly offset by lower consumption on descent and approach. Assume also 18 hours/day of flight time, and assume 95% utilization - in other words, 5% annual downtime for maintenance, major checks, etc. (these may both be off but I'm not sure what utilization levels operators actually achieve). Convert from kg to pounds and price at US$2.80/gallon for JetA (the current spot price, i.e. ignore hedging) and I'm getting an annual fuel burn valued at US$26.7 to US$28.4 million. If all those assumptions are valid (or if the various errors cancel each other out ), the 5% fuel savings from winglets works out to about US$1.3 to US$1.4 million. At US$2.5 million per set, that's a 2-year simple payback on the investment.

YMMV.

[Mig29]

if your numbers are close enough, then I think it's a shame they didn't get them installed sooner. But someone already explained that issue earlier. Thanks!

[DanJ]

if your numbers are close enough, then I think it's a shame they didn't get them installed sooner. But someone already explained that issue earlier. Thanks!

Even still, 4 or 5 year payback would have had pocketed savings for how many years on these planes?