It's NOT a "Near Miss"

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Sun May 25, 2014 11:22 am

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/23/travel/texas-near-miss/

FAA investigates near miss between jets at Houston airport

Actually, it's NOT a "near miss". It was a
COMPLETE miss. It was a "near collision"
perhaps.

That is all. Carry on.

Illya Kuryakin · Post by **Illya Kuryakin** » Sun May 25, 2014 11:43 am

Never understood the term "near miss"? Wouldn't that be a "hit"?
Kind of like "I almost didn't crap my pants..." Means you did crap your pants.
Illya

CID · Post by **CID** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:02 pm

It's not that difficult to understand. It was a "miss" and "near" categorizes the miss. If the aircraft came nowhere near each other, they also "miss" but since it's not even worthy of mention, we tend not to categorize it.

A "hit" on the other hand is simply a "hit". No need to categorize it. A "near hit" is therfore a non-sensical term.

That's how English works.

Of course the whole "near miss" thing is a popular comedic theme. George Carlin for one was convinced it was funny but he also said that "dark" is part of a weather forecast.....

iflyforpie · Post by **iflyforpie** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:27 pm

I don't know what's funnier.... the very awkward and ambiguous term itself or the pedants who try to explain it one way or another.....

Here's one. Unthaw. If you say this, 100% of the listeners will know exactly what you mean, but a large percentage will waste hot air either mocking you or trying to correct you.

sstaurus · Post by **sstaurus** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:43 pm

I would call that an Idiom. One of the trickier parts of learning another language.

CID · Post by **CID** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:57 pm

Iflyforpie, you're what is called the dissassociated agitant. That's a person who is just dying to dive in to a discussion but wishes to appear aloof and avoid judgement by agreeing or disagreeing with all opinions expressed while expressing disdain or derision for those people.

Are you a politician?

Liquid Charlie · Post by **Liquid Charlie** » Sun May 25, 2014 1:10 pm

exercise in English language --

iflyforpie · Post by **iflyforpie** » Sun May 25, 2014 1:26 pm

And you are definitely pedantic, CID.... using your obsession of true, but hillariously insignificant premises in an attempt to elevate your position...

Liquid Charlie · Post by **Liquid Charlie** » Sun May 25, 2014 1:33 pm

I guess there couldn't just use the term -- "fcking close"

white_knuckle_flyer · Post by **white_knuckle_flyer** » Sun May 25, 2014 2:01 pm

Certainly not the biggest misnomer in the English language. Makes sense I believe, when you think about it more closely. If you want to emphasize that it was in fact a "miss", then you do not want the word "collision" anywhere in the description. But if you need to emphasize that it was indeed a much closer "miss" than normal, you get the "near" qualifier.

It's not an oxymoron or whatever, just a different way to describe the event. Kinda like "fat chance" and "slim chance" mean the same thing, or the ol' "flammable" and inflammable" deal.

** Oops, I just realized CID said essentially the same thing.

** Oops again...I just realized I'm pedantic. Although it would seem to me, arguing that "near miss" is awkward and makes no sense would actually be the job of the pedant. since he/she would be implying that the term does not satisfy a strict set of parameters. Defending its use as a figure of speech is too open-minded to be pedantic.....but what do I know ?

I just hope they are discussing forced approaches in the English language forums.

Big Pistons Forever · Post by **Big Pistons Forever** » Sun May 25, 2014 2:14 pm

Liquid Charlie wrote:I guess there couldn't just use the term -- "fcking close"

I think there should be gradations of close;

1) Oh for the Love of F*uck that wasn't close at all

2) Geez that was kind of closer than I like to see

3) WOAH, did you see how close that MotherF*ucker was !

4) It was "shit my pants" close !!!

In any case it is nice to see Avcanada hosting such an exercise in elucubration, rich in the quest for semantic perfection, and only occasional veering into pedantry.

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Sun May 25, 2014 2:41 pm

Colonel Sanders wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/23/travel/texas-near-miss/

FAA investigates near miss between jets at Houston airport
Actually, it's NOT a "near miss". It was a
COMPLETE miss. It was a "near collision"
perhaps.

That is all. Carry on.

You're stealing Carlin's material.

CID · Post by **CID** » Sun May 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Hehe....I thought I might draw you in a little further fly-pie guy! You'd think I'd have better things to do on such a sunny morning.

PilotDAR · Post by **PilotDAR** » Sun May 25, 2014 3:06 pm

It is possible to have a "near miss", I had one with a seagull the other day. No matter how hard I tried to maneuver a miss around him, I still hit him on the belly of the plane. Then I imagined a messy streak of yuck along the belly. I had to land in the water a few times to wash it off, so it would not gross me out when I got home!

HiLo · Post by **HiLo** » Sun May 25, 2014 7:57 pm

Its also not a "Controller Shortage."

Sounds an awful lot like some sort of lobby at work....

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Mon May 26, 2014 2:24 am

Near Miss? Didn't any of you play "Battleship" as a kid? There were 3 possible outcomes from a depth charge: miss, near miss, and direct hit. You missed, but you were near....

johngalt · Post by **johngalt** » Mon May 26, 2014 3:53 am

CID wrote:Iflyforpie, you're what is called the dissassociated agitant. That's a person who is just dying to dive in to a discussion but wishes to appear aloof and avoid judgement by agreeing or disagreeing with all opinions expressed while expressing disdain or derision for those people.

Are you a politician?

I am glad I opened up this thread. I have been looking for a definition of this behavior for awhile. Thanks

Jack Klumpus · Post by **Jack Klumpus** » Mon May 26, 2014 4:36 am

In ATCs language or view, ideally, they want every airplane to be a 'miss'. You have your chunk of airspace, juggling a bunch of planes, in hopes of all missing each other. The 'miss', will vary from en-route, to approach, etc.

A 'near miss', in their language, or whoever coined this term, is just saying that the 'miss' got very close, closer than intended or desired.

Capice?

Don't get me started of parkways and driveways.

DHQ · Post by **DHQ** » Mon May 26, 2014 8:36 am

Two airplanes that pass with lots of separation have a far miss.
Two airplanes that pass with little separation have a near miss.

Here's a video to explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhEcRrMA-M&feature=kp

ea306 · Post by **ea306** » Mon May 26, 2014 3:04 pm

Thanks DHQ
Now I know why I still read Avcanada... LOL
Awesome!

JDW · Post by **JDW** » Mon May 26, 2014 8:52 pm

semantics aside, was there not upwards of 5000 feet of vertical separation? lotta these news articles make it seem like you could see the whites of the other pilots eyes!

1000 HP · Post by **1000 HP** » Mon May 26, 2014 9:54 pm

Moderators: Please relocate this discussion to http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/

Thanks

B208 · Post by **B208** » Mon May 26, 2014 10:45 pm

CID wrote:It's not that difficult to understand. It was a "miss" and "near" categorizes the miss. If the aircraft came nowhere near each other, they also "miss" but since it's not even worthy of mention, we tend not to categorize it.

A "hit" on the other hand is simply a "hit". No need to categorize it. A "near hit" is therfore a non-sensical term.

That's how English works.

Of course the whole "near miss" thing is a popular comedic theme. George Carlin for one was convinced it was funny but he also said that "dark" is part of a weather forecast.....

NMAC: Near Mid Air Collision.

imarai · Post by **imarai** » Tue May 27, 2014 2:14 pm

The 1960 movie "The Crowded Sky" based on the novel by Hank Searls, may have popularized the term "near miss". Can anyone confirm?

atpilot · Post by **atpilot** » Wed May 28, 2014 9:22 am

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Never understood the term "near miss"? Wouldn't that be a "hit"?
Kind of like "I almost didn't crap my pants..." Means you did crap your pants.
Illya

George Carlin has a whole routine on this. Funny as hell.

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