Why?

[lostaviator]

Any reason this matrix has been shared public before being shared internally?

[North Shore]

Dunno 'bout that...I heard about the matrix from an internal source before it hit this forum.

Interesting way of incrementally ameliorating the compensation package so as to pay the minimum required/necessary to get people, and not a penny more...

[DaveP]

Hi
I just confirmed again with JA their CP and he did share it internally with a phone call to those affected.
All others who weren't will see a general com today (if it's not in the mailbox already)in conjunction with this information. Newspaper ads out too.
Cheers

[leftoftrack]

Last time I checked Air Canada had the same requirements. Just sayin..

That is true, only that the above job posting is for Captain's. There's a separate job posting for F/O's. It's probably a mistake. I can't see how they would ask for 1500 hours for a Q400 skipper.

Remember the military folks. If you can be in command of a f-18 prepared to go to war at 200 hrs you can fly a mighty-8 after getting your ATPL.

[BE20 Driver]

You might be right in theory. The matrix does not give any credit for military time. Those guys will be waiting just as long as any 2000 hour wonder off the street.

[sstaurus]

You might be right in theory. The matrix does not give any credit for military time. Those guys will be waiting just as long as any 2000 hour wonder off the street.

Wait, I thought I left wonder status behind a long time ago, how much time do you need before you're no longer a XX hour wonder?

[7thirtyseven]

You might be right in theory. The matrix does not give any credit for military time. Those guys will be waiting just as long as any 2000 hour wonder off the street.

Really????!! Hate to break it to you, millitary time is worth jack shit as an aviation skill builder. The only thing military pilots get good at is saying "yes sir" and then proceeding to throw themselves on their sword.

After years of watching ex military pilots I am convinced their time should be counted as half.... Particularly in comparison to float/ski time. Adjust the matrix for float and ski time up, f18 time down... Then penalize the military guys for being stupid enough to go that route.

[GRK]

"Incoming…"

[7thirtyseven]

"Incoming…"

[dhc#]

I hope that every Navajo pilot in Canada applies........and nobody else.

Time to give WJ/Encore a wake up call about supply and demand. If you want to pay peanuts, then you will attract the experience level you deserve. If pilots can show some restraint and self discipline and NOT APPLY, the offer will have to improve. Does anybody believe that WJ will just let Q400 deliveries sit on the ramp idle? Show a little patience and teach WJ/Encore a lesson about respect being a two way street.

Not far off the mark regarding supply and demand....standby for new ATIS pay message.

[BE20 Driver]

I hope that every Navajo pilot in Canada applies........and nobody else.

I know guys that made double the Encore FO wage while flying a Navajo.

[Ironman2909]

You might be right in theory. The matrix does not give any credit for military time. Those guys will be waiting just as long as any 2000 hour wonder off the street.

Really????!! Hate to break it to you, millitary time is worth jack shit as an aviation skill builder. The only thing military pilots get good at is saying "yes sir" and then proceeding to throw themselves on their sword.

After years of watching ex military pilots I am convinced their time should be counted as half.... Particularly in comparison to float/ski time. Adjust the matrix for float and ski time up, f18 time down... Then penalize the military guys for being stupid enough to go that route.

BOUAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Although, you're right I have said alot of "yes sir!" to ATC. Oh wait, maybe not in Africa. military time worth jack shit as an aviation skills......I'm still laughing.....at your comment of course....oh boy!

[7thirtyseven]

Tell me then, oh wise one, what shall thy penalty be?

[55+]

You might be right in theory. The matrix does not give any credit for military time. Those guys will be waiting just as long as any 2000 hour wonder off the street.

Really????!! Hate to break it to you, millitary time is worth jack shit as an aviation skill builder. The only thing military pilots get good at is saying "yes sir" and then proceeding to throw themselves on their sword.

After years of watching ex military pilots I am convinced their time should be counted as half.... Particularly in comparison to float/ski time. Adjust the matrix for float and ski time up, f18 time down... Then penalize the military guys for being stupid enough to go that route.

BOUAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Although, you're right I have said alot of "yes sir!" to ATC. Oh wait, maybe not in Africa. military time worth jack shit as an aviation skills......I'm still laughing.....at your comment of course....oh boy!

I am from the civilian world and have worked with many DND pilots(CF-18, Herc, P3(Aurora), VIP - CL-601 and some rotorary) in the regulatory and service provider areas. My experience is the military chaps are sharp, well trained and we worked well together and generally fun chaps to be around(beer time). If I want to sling dirt, some of the civilian pilots who moved up to managerial levels in industry left a lot to be desired with their poor skillsets in dealing with their underlings/employees, I note one section with the service provider that I am quite familiar with(shall say no more). The military guys with command experience of having staff underneath them excell in handling people/situations as has been my experience in working with them.

[Ironman2909]

7thirtyseven, here you go....

I am from the civilian world and have worked with many DND pilots(CF-18, Herc, P3(Aurora), VIP - CL-601 and some rotorary) in the regulatory and service provider areas. My experience is the military chaps are sharp, well trained and we worked well together and generally fun chaps to be around(beer time). If I want to sling dirt, some of the civilian pilots who moved up to managerial levels in industry left a lot to be desired with their poor skillsets in dealing with their underlings/employees, I note one section with the service provider that I am quite familiar with(shall say no more). The military guys with command experience of having staff underneath them excell in handling people/situations as has been my experience in working with them.

....enough said I don't want to start trash talk. I'm just saying, for my part, I appreciate the experience from both side (military and civy). You'll always have, on both side, the type of pilot who thinks they're better...and that's fine...that's life....

[bruced007]

Wrto an earlier post that WJ is hiring for 4 positions can anyone say on what's the level of experience they are looking at for each of the positions

[Etihad]

Good Day,
Was wondering if anyone is aware of when Encore is planning expansion further east than Toronto., ie; Montreal, Halifax, St John's and/or the US?

[Rem]

I got on at Mainline with 1200tt because I put on my resume that I'd flown with 7thirtyseven and they credited that time 10-1.

[7thirtyseven]

I got on at Mainline with 1200tt because I put on my resume that I'd flown with 7thirtyseven and they credited that time 10-1.

Ahhhh, see MR REM has the idea, nothing like danger and placing your life on the line to hammer home a lesson or two. I guess it could be claimed that the poor "chap" that actually gets a seaking airborne is in the same boat, so any Seaking driver gets 10-1. The rest.... Pssshhh.... Hours halved.

[BE20 Driver]

The only Eastern expansion is Toronto to Thunder Bay. They have announced Quebec City for March 2015 IIRC. Those are all of the eastern destinations as of now.

[bluecoolaid]

To the op: Word on the street is that Encore is having trouble filling seats. The recent captain posting seems to have suprred a bump in applications from what I'm hearing. The reason for the job posting is the minimum requirements currently exclude a good portion of people who already have their foot in the door. Some are close but since only Q400 time counts, some are hung up on the time on type requirement. Others, as everyone is quick to point out require more total time. The new matrix will pretty much keep the 2500 hour people out of the left seat and you'll end up with a little more total experience in command. Not necessarily a bad thing. Most people will still move to the left seat in a short period of time.

Here is what I can tell you as of today. All of this is under review and might change as of tomorrow. No one knows. It's a startup.

You can see what the posted salary is. If you want money to drive a Q, overseas is the place to do it. A quick google search will find you a bunch of jobs that pay better than the top end of any Canadian employers pay scale. The Encore compensation package is under review. It'll likely go up, but not above $110k for the left seat. You can count on that. There are lots of theories and guesses about what the new compensation package will be, but for the most part, everyone who has a say is tight lipped about it.

Encore is blocked at 80 hours guaranteed a month until January 1st, 2015 when it will revert to 70 hours (unless things change between now and then). The company says pilots average 65 hours a month. Most people I've talked to varry between 55-65 from what I've seen.

Pilots can be scheduled to 20 days a month. The average for the last few months has been around 18 days of work, with 12 off. Management says they want to keep everyone at 18 days and that WestJet pilots are extremely lucky to be working 16 days. Obviously, if hiring stalls hours and days will go back up closer to the max.

Overtime kicks in at 90 hours. Since most people are flying 55-75 hours a month, you'd have to do a lot of flying at straight pay before overtime kicks in. You'd end up maxing out your days before the hours get up to overtime pay. I'm not aware of many people, other than a few training captains that are getting overtime pay.

WestJet's employee share purchase plan could be considered the best in the business. It's a shame that Encore doesn't get that plan. Gate agents, bag smashers and the guys serviceing the Q's lavs get 100% match up to 20% of their pay (the lav guys probably deserve it). Encore gets half of what WestJet employees get. This is your retirement plan if you so choose. Air Canada has gotten rid of thei defined benifit plan and there is plenty of speculation about what will happen to Jazz's DB plan after 2020. Westjet's stock is rated a buy right now and there are plenty of people who have done well by taking part in the share purchase plan.

The interline agreements are pretty good. I think the ZED agreements are the same as WestJet gets. It covers a lot of airlines. As was pointed out, Encore doesn't have as many jumpseat agreements as WestJet has but I'm sure this is something that will change with time.

I don't know what this flexible shift trade system is. I assume they're talking about Flica?? Encore doesn't use Flica. It's only for WestJet crews. If they mean you can ask your friend to cover some flying for you, then I guess we have that. What company doesnt?

Both pilot groups are separate. Rumour mills have been busy speculating that next month they may move to one seniority list. From what we've heard, WestJet pilots have been pushing for this for a while.

Flow is at 25%. DaveP has said it may go to 50% in the fall. Encore has around 150 pilots right now and Westjet is hiring 50-70 pilots a year. Your ability to flow up is based on your date of hire. If you do come over as a captain, you'll still be waiting for everyone ahead of you to move up. You're looking at 12-17 on the low end and 25-35 pilots on the high end that could move up every year. I don't think years of service follow you for anything other than vacation. You drop back to year one pay when you flow up. Base selection, upgrades etc at Westjet are based on your seniority number. The current seniority number system is a little complicated. You will end up with some reward for being at Encore but it may only be the difference of a class or two ahead of where you actually land.

Now the good. You do have a gurantee to move up to Westjet. No more interviews, no more job hunting. Westjet's future looks pretty bright and with the possibility of getting into widebody flying, there is definite expansion on the horizion. Everyone is great to work with and eventualy Encore will be a great airline. There is a lot of support from all of the pilots, both at Encore and at Westjet. Most people that are here, genuinely want to be here. I guess the coolaid is that good. Hope this info helps in your decision.

[ahramin]

I don't normally do any moderating around here anymore but that post was definitely worth my time to approve. Excellent post bluecoolaid, thank you.

[Mr. North]

What a wealth of information, much appreciated bluecoolaid.

How much time on type is required to move to the left seat on the Q? I'm guessing 500 hours?

[BE20 Driver]

I think Dave's numbers on the previous page are correct. If I understand what I've been told, anything less than 4500 total time requires 500 on a Q400 (Q300 doesn't count). At 4500 hours, they'll count any 705 machine as DaveP said.

As for the flow agreement, it works something like this: If two people from Encore flow up and there are another 6 in the mainline course, then the next 6 Encore people who didn't flow get place holder numbers. On the next course, if another 3 flow up and there are 3 outside hires on the mainline course, another three Encore pilots get place holders. I can't find a reference but I think this was to a maximum of two courses ahead of the one you are actually hired onto. If that's the case, you would only benefit by a maximum of 16-20 seniority numbers as I think there are 8-10 people per course.

[JoeyBarton]

I think Dave's numbers on the previous page are correct. If I understand what I've been told, anything less than 4500 total time requires 500 on a Q400 (Q300 doesn't count). At 4500 hours, they'll count any 705 machine as DaveP said.

As for the flow agreement, it works something like this: If two people from Encore flow up and there are another 6 in the mainline course, then the next 6 Encore people who didn't flow get place holder numbers. On the next course, if another 3 flow up and there are 3 outside hires on the mainline course, another three Encore pilots get place holders. I can't find a reference but I think this was to a maximum of two courses ahead of the one you are actually hired onto. If that's the case, you would only benefit by a maximum of 16-20 seniority numbers as I think there are 8-10 people per course.

BE20 Driver, from what I understand, any 705 time will count not just some Q time.

Total Time / DHC-8-400 or similar Transport Category Aircraft *
4500 / 500
4000 / 500
3500 / 750
3000 / 1000
2500 / 1250
2000 / 1500