Air Canada Pool

[Fanblade]

I think the EMJ positions are cushion on the bid. 20 start leaving July 2015. They only need the aircraft staffed at peak for this summer. By late fall/winter it will start to show reductions. So why fill them now?


15 175's to SR last year. 20 190's to Boeing next summer. That's a loss of about 350 jobs. As the 87 arrives/ 67 transfers to Rouge and 10 larger NB's show up the job numbers will creep back.

The hiring lull's reasons

-very little retirements

-Late 787's

-Getting rid of small NB.

-Companies change in direction in favor of force reducing pilots to Rouge rather than hiring.

with that said

- retirements are delayed not gone

- 87's are delayed not gone.

- 37 starts arriving in 2017

- back ground noise of more 777/787.

Unfortunately these things won't happen tomorrow. But they will need to be planned in advance. It is why interviews are still happening. For example if 70 pilots all of a sudden give 1 years notice to retire the hiring machine would immediately kick it up a notch.

But for now and the foreseeable future? Couple of years unless something materially changes. Trickle hiring I would guess

[tailgunner]

Fanblade et al.,
Firstly, lets say i heard it from a guy who heard.... AC did sell 20 EMJ's to Boeing, but we are all assuming that Boeing will take possesion of these fins. What if AC and Boeing have negotiated a sell and lease back scenario....these fins may not be going anywhere as they do fit a rather niche route/load structure for AC.
Anyways, it is only rumour and speculation...
Cheers

[Fanblade]

Fanblade et al.,
Firstly, lets say i heard it from a guy who heard.... AC did sell 20 EMJ's to Boeing, but we are all assuming that Boeing will take possesion of these fins. What if AC and Boeing have negotiated a sell and lease back scenario....these fins may not be going anywhere as they do fit a rather niche route/load structure for AC.
Anyways, it is only rumour and speculation...
Cheers

Anything is possible I suppose but that isn't what shows in the fleet plan AC publishes every quarter. The most recent, within the q1 results, where they announced keeping the other 25 190's, still shows 20 190's departing the fleet in 2015.

It shows 10 larger NB replacing those 20 190's.

If your interested go find AC's q1 results. Go into the management discussion and analysis. Take a look at the projected fleet. 202 fins in 2012. 201 combined fins year end 2014. Drops to 196 year end 2015. Back to 201 in 2016.

Unless there is a material change to this fleet plan or retirements ramp up again, hiring will be pretty flat. Either could happen without notice. Just saying as stands right now? Flat

[rudder]

Boeing is going to eat the 20 190's. Clearly that cost (or benefit, from the AC point of view) was built in to the deal. Whether Boeing can re-sell them away or lease them away is just gravy. Where they will not end up is in AC paint (nor Express).

No smoke and mirrors here. AC would have been happier if Boeing had agreed to take all 45 airframes. The only question that remains is whether "Express" will ever be painted on the 25 190's that remain. Everything is for sale at the right price.

[Fanblade]

Boeing is going to eat the 20 190's. Clearly that cost (or benefit, from the AC point of view) was built in to the deal. Whether Boeing can re-sell them away or lease them away is just gravy. Where they will not end up is in AC paint (nor Express).

No smoke and mirrors here. AC would have been happier if Boeing had agreed to take all 45 airframes. The only question that remains is whether "Express" will ever be painted on the 25 190's that remain. Everything is for sale at the right price.

Rudder,

76 seats is not for sale. It would never get past the membership. Wishful thinking.

Besides AC can't layoff with the common employer challenges on their door step. There are simply not enough jobs at mainline to spare 25 more aircraft. The FA's alone are overstaffed by 1000 and growing.

I know what your grasping at. It won't happen

[rudder]

I know what your grasping at. It won't happen

Actually, you don't. When the dust settles there will be no 190's at AC. That may take a year, it may take 5 years. But that eventuality is inevitable. These aircraft will leave the fleet and ACPA will get nothing in return.

There are so many moving pieces. And I would not be too concerned with whether CUPE or the IAM pursue the matter before the CIRB.

Shortsighted thinking has gotten us to where we are today. And continued shortsighted thinking will just play into the chess-master's hands.

[Squid]

Pathetic!

[Fanblade]

I know what your grasping at. It won't happen

Actually, you don't. When the dust settles there will be no 190's at AC. That may take a year, it may take 5 years. But that eventuality is inevitable. These aircraft will leave the fleet and ACPA will get nothing in return.

Not true. They will be replaced at mainline, albeit not 1:1. = Fewer jobs. If they remain in the fleet, they won't be replaced at all. = Status quo jobs. If they remain in the fleet but at express, ACPA loses all jobs .

From a job perspective the preference is.

- 190 at AC.
- 190 gone completely
- 190at express

The choice is simple.

[pelmet]

The pool has varying levels of pilot experience and with the heavy jet time requirement for new hires at the rouge 767 operation I suspect the pool is being propped up again by interviewing pilots with extensive jet experience to meet that requirement.

Why would you need heavy jet experience to go on the 767 at Rouge. AC has been putting narrowbody pilots on the 767 for years.

[watermeth]

The pool has varying levels of pilot experience and with the heavy jet time requirement for new hires at the rouge 767 operation I suspect the pool is being propped up again by interviewing pilots with extensive jet experience to meet that requirement.

Just curious, do we have requirements posted somewhere within the HR dep ?
Entry level pay doesn't really match heavy jet time requirements if those exist.
Just sayin, you'd have to be in a hell of a situation with heavy jet time to accept those T&C.

[bcflyer]

The pool has varying levels of pilot experience and with the heavy jet time requirement for new hires at the rouge 767 operation I suspect the pool is being propped up again by interviewing pilots with extensive jet experience to meet that requirement.

Good luck to all.

Just curious where you heard that we have a requirement for heavy jet time. I'm pretty sure there is no such requirement.

[bruced007]

I have 3000hrs on the 320 flying overseas, looks like they want some time on the Space Shuttle LOL!!!

[DH772]

Actually, you don't. When the dust settles there will be no 190's at AC. That may take a year, it may take 5 years. But that eventuality is inevitable. These aircraft will leave the fleet and ACPA will get nothing in return.

Kind of like how Jazz was so certain they were going to get all the EMB in first place?

[rudder]

Kind of like how Jazz was so certain they were going to get all the EMB in first place?

What happened in 2012 had far more serious consequences on ACPA than what transpired in 2003/2004. In point of fact, one could argue that it was ACPA that won in 2003/2004 as Teplitsky placed great value in the transfer of the 25 CRJ100's (which at the time were already well on their way to obsolescence) and accordingly assigned 60 EMB's to ACPA.

It is ironic that those same since retired CRJ airframes would resurface in AC paint at GGN in 2014 and that ACPA would lose the 15 175's without compensation. The GGN CRJ CPA is a ruse. It is no different than AC putting out an RFP for uniform suppliers in order to get the current supplier to dramatically reduce price yet continue to provide the same product and service.

It is all a means to an end. The parties can create a more beneficial outcome or live with the one that is currently being implemented. Clearly Rouge is on the radar screen for ACPA. And if CR is to get what he wants (higher gauge NB aircraft at Rouge) then he will have to be willing to address the ACPA list of concerns in regards to the LCC LOU.

As for the 190's - if AC can ever find a buyer then they are history.

[Fanblade]

The GGN CRJ CPA is a ruse. It is no different than AC putting out an RFP for uniform suppliers in order to get the current supplier to dramatically reduce price yet continue to provide the same product and service.
.

A ruse? I would disagree completely. What was AC supposed to acquire for their startup? A few 705's? Nope they would go to jazz via Mr T.

Is Localizer correct on this point? Teplitsky has control of all small jet allocation? He decides between AC and Jazz I assume? So all 75 seat jets will always go to Jazz so long as this remains in place? Do I have this correct? It was before my time. Does it have an expiry date?

As a result right now GGN would simply be about getting up and running RJ's.

Regional Diversification isn't a ruse. Encore is a game changer. The Small jet agreement appears to be getting in the way of that diversification. I was wondering why AC hadn't made any moves to acquire more larger Q's and 75 seat jets like every other airline. Now it adds up.

Not sure how AC plans to get around that one. On the other hand that 1 time right is only a year and a half away. From this outsider it looks like AC has only one option if they want to achieve regional diversification and Chorus or Jazz ALPA refuses to let the SJA terminate.

You guys appear to be heading toward a game of very high stakes poker.

[Sokol1]

Recently Interview.

4500TT
Over 500 hours Mulit PIC on >12500
50% of time PIC.

[arcadia]

.

[Krimson]

Recently Interview.

4500TT
Over 500 hours Mulit PIC on >12500
50% of time PIC.

Any jet?

[bcflyer]

Recently Interview.

4500TT
Over 500 hours Mulit PIC on >12500
50% of time PIC.

Any jet?

I realize you are asking just to see the experience level of people being interviewed but I have to add that flying a jet is much easier than flying anything with propellers.

Lots of people (I would guess most of the pilots at AC) have been hired without jet time.

[Krimson]

Lots of people (I would guess most of the pilots at AC) have been hired without jet time.

That's not how the recent classes have been filled.

I am just curious where they are currently standing for calls.

[yycflyguy]

Recently Interview.

4500TT
Over 500 hours Mulit PIC on >12500
50% of time PIC.

Any jet?

I realize you are asking just to see the experience level of people being interviewed but I have to add that flying a jet is much easier than flying anything with propellers.

Lots of people (I would guess most of the pilots at AC) have been hired without jet time.

It gets another box ticked on the matrix. All things being equal, it helps a candidate.

[loopa]

A friend just had an interview there.

4000 total
2000 dash pic
500 d328 pic
the rest military f18 exp
20 years ex military.
ATPL

[SgtStroka]

A gal that interviewed the sameday as myself had 2200TT with nothing but a Multi-IFR and a bunch of Overseas Caravan time....I wasn't to far off from that myself, but I was the only one offered a job 6 weeks later.

Doesn't really matter what you have.

[aerodude]

I think its fair to say, its pretty much a coin flip on getting hired at AC. I've seen 1500 hour PC-12 f/o's get hired, with 6000hr 705 captain getting PFO'd and then a 4000 hr 705 captain get on. Depends on interview, psycho test, day on the week, etc.. I wouldn't get to offended if i got PFO'd at AC. Try again in 6 months.

[loopa]

A gal that interviewed the sameday as myself had 2200TT with nothing but a Multi-IFR and a bunch of Overseas Caravan time....I wasn't to far off from that myself, but I was the only one offered a job 6 weeks later.

Doesn't really matter what you have.

How long ago was this if you don't mind me asking?