****** and I did go back.
There were alot of things said from both parties that we will regret for the rest of our lives. But it is now water under the bridge. There was a change of heart and I am happy for it. Neither of us wanted to leave and deffinately not like it happened. I think now this can only make the company a better place... back to the good ol days!
With all this said, Thank you everyone for all the support, it means alot.
Clayton
any help for two stellar guys?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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rantandrave
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:55 pm
Squeak and I were let go due to a large amount of misunderstanding between us and the management of the company. Fortunately, all problems were ironed out and have already been put in the past.
Thank you to all who have supported squeak and I through this rough last few days, especially Endless. As was said earlier, it is nice to see people (pilots) helping each other out without the whole 'cut throat' attitude. Without his support and starting this post, no one would have ever known the solidarity that exists around the pilot world.
Everyone wants to get to the top, but you will never get there without knowing someone else.
Thanks to all.
Thank you to all who have supported squeak and I through this rough last few days, especially Endless. As was said earlier, it is nice to see people (pilots) helping each other out without the whole 'cut throat' attitude. Without his support and starting this post, no one would have ever known the solidarity that exists around the pilot world.
Everyone wants to get to the top, but you will never get there without knowing someone else.
Thanks to all.
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Clearwater
- Rank 3
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:57 am
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Last edited by Clearwater on Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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broompusher
- Rank 4
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:34 pm
- Location: On the tracks
Its funny how sometimes you only hear one side of a story and don't hear the other. Well the other half of the story doesn't sound so good for these "two stellar guys".
When you buzz a town at 0330 in the morning and the police are called in because of pilot induced stupidity, chances are that you are going to get fired, but on top of that, you go and mouth off to managment, guaranteed your gettin' fired.
So now you realize
" Oh Sh*t, i don't have any other job to go to, i'd better get back to the office and kiss all the ass that i can, and while i'm in there, why don't i sewer someone who's senior too me so that i can jump the seniority latter".
So, because the boss feels sorry enough for the pathetic situation that you managed to get youself into, you get your job back out of mercy from the owner, & two others leave because of your whiny ass.
Time you learned to live with your actions
Total BS
When you buzz a town at 0330 in the morning and the police are called in because of pilot induced stupidity, chances are that you are going to get fired, but on top of that, you go and mouth off to managment, guaranteed your gettin' fired.
So now you realize
" Oh Sh*t, i don't have any other job to go to, i'd better get back to the office and kiss all the ass that i can, and while i'm in there, why don't i sewer someone who's senior too me so that i can jump the seniority latter".
So, because the boss feels sorry enough for the pathetic situation that you managed to get youself into, you get your job back out of mercy from the owner, & two others leave because of your whiny ass.
Time you learned to live with your actions
Total BS
WTF, over
I couldn't have said it better.... Every story does indeed have two sides, and I suppose that this would be no exception. I can only vouch for one side however, but it seems like there is a lot of support going for them.
However, when a post like this is made, it is important that the integrity of the story remains. Agreed we are a small company, but any of it's current employees can agree to the events, and know for a fact, that no buzzing of any town occured.... That idea is just plain silly, and the source you got that one from should be checked on.
Secondly, I am totally in agreement with you with regards to 'kissing ass' to jump the company seniority latter, (or in this case, ladder). The steller employees referred to here, however, are indeed the most senior two employees in the company. One of 26 months seniority, and the second with 21 months seniority. So again, this couldn't be the case (as there are no more senior ppl to jump!) .... But your point is clearly made. People who do kiss ass to get where they are do indeed lessen moral, and should not be tolerated; couldn't agree more broompusher.
Another important point is that in the events that you are referring to, there where no employees fired. I know for a fact that anyone who has left the company in the last while has quit under their own accord. (that is what the 'E' stands for on the Record of Employment that you are issued when you leave a job).
I have to say, however, that I have never seen in my years of aviation, an employer re-instate an employee due to mercy. If someone messes up legitimately, that is most definately their one and only chance. Again, I do believe your story is incorrect.
Looking at your post as a whole, I don't know why any person in a company would leave if an employee returned to the company. I believe this whole story you are reflecting on took place in a matter of 3 days.... On top of that, only one employee left due to these actions. The second employee left due to a difference of opinions with management. This I DO KNOW, because I spoke to him myself. Again broompusher, you are incorrect, and if this employee who left under their own terms where to see this, I think he would be quite annoyed by it. He was a good employee who put some 15 months into the company and was liked by all the crew. It is too bad that he had to go, and I know that both of the "two stellar guys" shared a couple beers with him on his patio and laughed about funny stories we shared and experienced together over the year that we shared. He was one of our family, and it is hard to see him go.
So, for the sake of the individuals still in the company, and the now resigned employees, please have your facts straight before accusations start.
On a final note. Taking off a runway that is aligned with the town is not under any circumstances illegal. I'd be very interested to understand how some native from town can judge altitude of an aircraft at night to the exact 100'. Was this local guy woken up by the planes departure and then estimated the height based on noise? Was this local in their backyard drunk out of their gourd? I believe the town is something like 1.5 or 2sm from the runway. Let's do some math.
120mph departure speed puts you over the town in roughly 1 minute. if you plan on an AVERAGE climb speed of 500 FPM over that one minute from wheels up to the town crossing you'd be somewhere in the ballpark of 500agl. I wouldn't call that a "buzz" in my books. Perhaps you should go eat at wendy's on the approach to YYZ and watch A340's rip 75' over your head while you eat a delicious spicy chicken. If you need further clarification of the law I can direct you to CAR 602.14(2).
Except where conducting a take-off, approach or landing or where permitted under section 602.15, no person shall operate an aircraft...
So that pretty much says any pilot can pass overhead a town, city, teepee lower than 1000agl as long as they are taking off or landing (which we most certianly were).
E & J, we are sad to see you go, and have a blast at Vegas. Talk to you soon.
Lever.
However, when a post like this is made, it is important that the integrity of the story remains. Agreed we are a small company, but any of it's current employees can agree to the events, and know for a fact, that no buzzing of any town occured.... That idea is just plain silly, and the source you got that one from should be checked on.
Secondly, I am totally in agreement with you with regards to 'kissing ass' to jump the company seniority latter, (or in this case, ladder). The steller employees referred to here, however, are indeed the most senior two employees in the company. One of 26 months seniority, and the second with 21 months seniority. So again, this couldn't be the case (as there are no more senior ppl to jump!) .... But your point is clearly made. People who do kiss ass to get where they are do indeed lessen moral, and should not be tolerated; couldn't agree more broompusher.
Another important point is that in the events that you are referring to, there where no employees fired. I know for a fact that anyone who has left the company in the last while has quit under their own accord. (that is what the 'E' stands for on the Record of Employment that you are issued when you leave a job).
I have to say, however, that I have never seen in my years of aviation, an employer re-instate an employee due to mercy. If someone messes up legitimately, that is most definately their one and only chance. Again, I do believe your story is incorrect.
Looking at your post as a whole, I don't know why any person in a company would leave if an employee returned to the company. I believe this whole story you are reflecting on took place in a matter of 3 days.... On top of that, only one employee left due to these actions. The second employee left due to a difference of opinions with management. This I DO KNOW, because I spoke to him myself. Again broompusher, you are incorrect, and if this employee who left under their own terms where to see this, I think he would be quite annoyed by it. He was a good employee who put some 15 months into the company and was liked by all the crew. It is too bad that he had to go, and I know that both of the "two stellar guys" shared a couple beers with him on his patio and laughed about funny stories we shared and experienced together over the year that we shared. He was one of our family, and it is hard to see him go.
So, for the sake of the individuals still in the company, and the now resigned employees, please have your facts straight before accusations start.
On a final note. Taking off a runway that is aligned with the town is not under any circumstances illegal. I'd be very interested to understand how some native from town can judge altitude of an aircraft at night to the exact 100'. Was this local guy woken up by the planes departure and then estimated the height based on noise? Was this local in their backyard drunk out of their gourd? I believe the town is something like 1.5 or 2sm from the runway. Let's do some math.
120mph departure speed puts you over the town in roughly 1 minute. if you plan on an AVERAGE climb speed of 500 FPM over that one minute from wheels up to the town crossing you'd be somewhere in the ballpark of 500agl. I wouldn't call that a "buzz" in my books. Perhaps you should go eat at wendy's on the approach to YYZ and watch A340's rip 75' over your head while you eat a delicious spicy chicken. If you need further clarification of the law I can direct you to CAR 602.14(2).
Except where conducting a take-off, approach or landing or where permitted under section 602.15, no person shall operate an aircraft...
So that pretty much says any pilot can pass overhead a town, city, teepee lower than 1000agl as long as they are taking off or landing (which we most certianly were).
E & J, we are sad to see you go, and have a blast at Vegas. Talk to you soon.
Lever.
Hey Broompusher,
If you wrote that post based on "reliable" info, well I'd hire you to ramp for me and keep telling you that you'll be next on the flight line. Man would you be the lauging stock of my crew as you push that broom and keep getting jumped for being an uninformed fool that doesn't know much about anything. Keep it up!
If you wrote that post based on "reliable" info, well I'd hire you to ramp for me and keep telling you that you'll be next on the flight line. Man would you be the lauging stock of my crew as you push that broom and keep getting jumped for being an uninformed fool that doesn't know much about anything. Keep it up!
Everything comes in threes....
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High Flight
- Rank 0
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:40 am
Go to Perimeter! They are doing good right now.. the wait is a year or so and word is they are hiring a lot of pilots right now.. This means more ground openings which lead to more flying jobs (not that the ramp is that great but whatever). I heared they are a good place to be right now and everyone is pretty happy there... and I hear wpg aint so bad either.. not that it matters too much.
Last edited by High Flight on Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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broompusher
- Rank 4
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:34 pm
- Location: On the tracks
If you wrote that post based on "reliable" info, well I'd hire you to ramp for me and keep telling you that you'll be next on the flight line. Man would you be the lauging stock of my crew as you push that broom and keep getting jumped for being an uninformed fool that doesn't know much about anything. Keep it up!
OOO.....ouch, well i guess i'll never make much of a news reporter now will I ! However, when you get information from COMPANY PERSONNEL, i would consider that fairly reliable info, Short of flying out there and interviewing everybody in the company & town, but like you so kindly pointed out, i am lacking in the reporting department (and as lever pointed out.......I ain't no good wit spellin' dem words neither)
But now Old MacDonald, you think that because of my name that i'm some dirty little hangar rat, maybe, maybe not. Or maybe i'm not like some who the second they finally get to fly, forget they ever had to work ground and apparently were born with 2000hrs/ 1500MPIC. I just chose my name based on where i started. Because your name is ei ei owe, by your standards i should assume that you are either unemployed or that you are a farmer with lots of barnyard animals to sing about???
WTF, over
Broompusher,
I don't know what all your hostility is about. First you go on targeting people based on false info that has passed through the grapevine and now we have graduated to slashing the names of authors.
This I couldn't agree with more, but make sure you have talked to company personnel. Secondly, even if you talk to former company personnel, make sure they arn't bluffing you. Even I have talked to the departed employees and can attest to the story of the more senior departed employee..... His story doesn't match yours at all. Again, the reason for his departure is a difference of opinions with upper management, not co-workers. I talked to him last night to confirm this.
Looking at the name EI EI OWE, although I personally don't know what it means, I would have to say that it has something to do with the poverty levels of pilots these days... as in EI (Employment Insurance) x2, the owe (as in pay back money). Old MacDonald perhaps tho...? Perhaps these insults are better suited to a new post entitled "Stupid Handles", or "Retarded names of people on AvCanada"?
If you have any questions regarding any of the events, feel free to PM me Broompusher. As there is no bad blood in this whole topic, it would be no problem clearing up any questions you have.
Lever.
I don't know what all your hostility is about. First you go on targeting people based on false info that has passed through the grapevine and now we have graduated to slashing the names of authors.
.When you get information from COMPANY PERSONNEL, I would consider that fairly reliable info
This I couldn't agree with more, but make sure you have talked to company personnel. Secondly, even if you talk to former company personnel, make sure they arn't bluffing you. Even I have talked to the departed employees and can attest to the story of the more senior departed employee..... His story doesn't match yours at all. Again, the reason for his departure is a difference of opinions with upper management, not co-workers. I talked to him last night to confirm this.
Looking at the name EI EI OWE, although I personally don't know what it means, I would have to say that it has something to do with the poverty levels of pilots these days... as in EI (Employment Insurance) x2, the owe (as in pay back money). Old MacDonald perhaps tho...? Perhaps these insults are better suited to a new post entitled "Stupid Handles", or "Retarded names of people on AvCanada"?
If you have any questions regarding any of the events, feel free to PM me Broompusher. As there is no bad blood in this whole topic, it would be no problem clearing up any questions you have.
Lever.
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broompusher
- Rank 4
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:34 pm
- Location: On the tracks
From what I know the 2 that are unemployed made the choice to quit on their own. It should have had no effect on their employment status that the first 2 were "asked" to come back.
The "Two Stellar Guys" are two of the best guys I know, and they would never "sewer" anybody just to get ahead. Getting ahead was never part of the equation until you brought it up, whoever you talked to was obviously looking to get ahead by their misfortune.
The "Two Stellar Guys" are two of the best guys I know, and they would never "sewer" anybody just to get ahead. Getting ahead was never part of the equation until you brought it up, whoever you talked to was obviously looking to get ahead by their misfortune.
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broompusher
- Rank 4
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- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:34 pm
- Location: On the tracks
broompusher: You clearly only have one VERY jaded side of the story. I feel it would be out of place to post the full story on here. I wouldn't want to drag anyone's name through the mud, however much one would deserve it. I'd take everything you hear with a grain of salt. Having much more information on the situation than you do, I can only say justice was done. A testament to this would be the support on this thread. Read back two pages of everyones support for the two guys. Now flip back and try to find one post that you didn't make supporting the other two. Perhaps that should have been your first red flag?
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broompusher
- Rank 4
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:34 pm
- Location: On the tracks
Endless:
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't one of the two who just left help you get a job with them at one point? If so, i would think that you would have the common decency to support people who helped you out in the past......
If i am wrong regarding this issue then you can consider that my foot is placed firmly in my mouth
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't one of the two who just left help you get a job with them at one point? If so, i would think that you would have the common decency to support people who helped you out in the past......
If i am wrong regarding this issue then you can consider that my foot is placed firmly in my mouth
WTF, over
Broompusher,
This post started out to help out a couple of guys. Then it resulted in a battle and pointing fingers. Now it has turned into you opening a whole new can of worms with endless. I am not sure what you are trying to achieve. Frankly I think the conflict has been resolved. We have moved on, I think you could do the same.
Hey, I have an idea. Instead of making this a negative post you could start another trying to help out the other 2.
Clay
This post started out to help out a couple of guys. Then it resulted in a battle and pointing fingers. Now it has turned into you opening a whole new can of worms with endless. I am not sure what you are trying to achieve. Frankly I think the conflict has been resolved. We have moved on, I think you could do the same.
Hey, I have an idea. Instead of making this a negative post you could start another trying to help out the other 2.
Clay
One of the two that just left I would have considered one of my very best friends for seven years. I lived with him, I threw his going away party when he left to BC, and was there for him through school and beyond. So you don't need to preech to me about where my loyalty needs to stand. I appreciate you trying to say what's on your mind. However, you need to either try and get the full story from someone who didn't work for regency, or just leave this thread to die.
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