May 1 startup day Air Georgian

[Localizer]

That would be a BAD idea........

I know it would be ... There might be more then a few chairs being thrown.

white tower

Ivory Tower

[rudder]

Of course there is another agenda. CR loves burning platforms.

True. But the problem with a scorched earth strategy is that once victorious you inevitably take possession of the damaged ground.

CR has already seen where his 'victory' over ACPA now requires tweaking which can only come with ACPA consent.

A better outcome can be had than the one that results from acting alone. CR's legacy should not be what the AC share price does over the next 24 months but instead achieving something that none of his predecessors ever did - pilot labour cooperation that gives him commercial and operational flexibility that his competitors could only dream about.

[dukepoint]

Like I mentioned many times before, if there is a marketing case for wide bodies, we'll get them. It will depend little on what happens at the Tier 2 level.

DP.

You may have mentioned it many times. Still doesn't make your comment correct. Feed is required to fill WB's. If you don't supply the feed it will go elsewhere. WJ will start picking it up for example.

In all likelihood a marketing case would be based on both “extra feed" and more WB. One not happening without the other.

I get your still pissed with FOS. Like I have said many times. Completely TA2's and the MEC's fault.

YOU CAN NOT START OVER AFTER AN MOA.

Now let's get back making things better. Voting no out of anger is an emotional response.

I don't get where you think the anger is coming from. The 175 issue will do nothing but "flavour" the vote. Idiots will vote to relax Scope further. You should be aware of what loose Scope language brings. If Jazz Scope was solid, Sky wouldn't exist, Georgian wouldn't exist, 1900's would be flown by you. These entities are nipping at your heels, so instead of tightening your own Scope, you guys go looking to raid someone else's. Like I said, if we give away more flying on the bottom end, it will be used against us in some form in the future. It's only logical. Sound familiar???

Where do you, Fanblade, think ACPA should draw the line? The current Scope line is drawn exactly within 5 seats of every other Major carrier in the world that I'm aware of. AC pilots aren't interested in becoming the laughing stock of the 20 largest carriers in the world.

As far as the MEC acting unilaterally in implementing change. Won't happen. Any proposal will be put in front of the Membership for a vote. If the pilot mood I sense everywhere is any indication of how a vote to seriously amend Article One would go, it will be met with huge opposition. Amending our most sacred Article to accommodate the hollow promises of a "proven untrustworthy Mothercorp" is highly unlikely, so don't hold your breath.

DP.

[Fanblade]

Where do you, Fanblade, think ACPA should draw the line? The current Scope line is drawn exactly within 5 seats of every other Major carrier in the world that I'm aware of. AC pilots aren't interested in becoming the laughing stock of the 20 largest carriers in the world.

DP,

Draw the line? Right where it is. I think the issue is volume of ASM's, not the size of the aircraft.

My mention of DL was an example. They traded sub 76 seat growth for mainline growth.

Is that a deal breaker? If so why?

[Mig29]

If Jazz Scope was solid, Sky wouldn't exist, Georgian wouldn't exist, 1900's would be flown by you. These entities are nipping at your heels, so instead of tightening your own Scope, you guys go looking to raid someone else's. Like I said, if we give away more flying on the bottom end, it will be used against us in some form in the future. It's only logical. Sound familiar???

I have to agree with Duke once again....things is logical, but not to some folks.

[kingtwo]

I don't get where you think the anger is coming from. The 175 issue will do nothing but "flavour" the vote. Idiots will vote to relax Scope further. You should be aware of what loose Scope language brings. If Jazz Scope was solid, Sky wouldn't exist, Georgian wouldn't exist, 1900's would be flown by you. These entities are nipping at your heels, so instead of tightening your own Scope, you guys go looking to raid someone else's. Like I said, if we give away more flying on the bottom end, it will be used against us in some form in the future. It's only logical. Sound familiar???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Jazz not have exclusive rights to Air Canada 37+ seat CPA flying up until ACPA voted to allow others, ala sky regional. Jazz has no control over scope. Our protection was taken away by ACPA, so why so surprised that we are now shopping for more work?

[DH772]

Our protection was taken away by ACPA, so why so surprised that we are now shopping for more work?

Don't know the full story here but if it was in your CPA contract that Jazz had exclusive rights to +37 seat planes, then ACPA should have no say in your contract, no? In what document/contract did it state this?

I suspect you're only mentioning half the facts here? Any one care to expand with more detail?





+1 to Duke post. Well said

[mbav8r]

That is correct kingtwo, Jazz had no scope on their own, the only protection was in ACPA's contract, Jazz was the only tier 2 allowed. When the MEC agreed to let CR create SR and then along came FOS which allowed the transfer of the 175s our new reality was completely out of our hands.
Dukepoint, I can completely understand your concerns regarding your choice to go to AC and now being faced with the possibility of Jazz pilots who were junior to you prior to your move now coming over above you, very unlikely, if anything there would be a BOTL. As far as pay goes, if AC is willing to pay for years of service for long time "AC" service what business is that of yours? Remember Jazz at one point was wholly owned by AC. I suppose it bothers you that most Jazz pilots still have C2 travel priority as well.
When I was hired by Jazz, I was prevented from applying at AC as an off the street pilot, in fact I still have the email correspondence with HR that told me to update my application with my date of hire and they would call me when my "number" comes up. You see for me, day 3 of orientation week at Jazz I was offered my choice of interview dates at AC but because I was a newly hired Jazz pilot I was not allowed to attend, even though AC, through ACE only owned 30% of Jazz, we were not a separate as you and others would like to believe.
Selfish on my part, much like your viewpoint, Jazz pilots absolutely deserve consideration for their years of service.

[Fanblade]

Dukepoint, I can completely understand your concerns regarding your choice to go to AC and now being faced with the possibility of Jazz pilots who were junior to you prior to your move now coming over above you, very unlikely, if anything there would be a BOTL.

This is a non starter.

You be opening a big ca no worms with that talk. keep the S word out of it. To do otherwise is doomed. So so doomed.

As far as pay goes, if AC is willing to pay for years of service for long time "AC" service what business is that of yours?.

This is a non starter.

The ACPA CBA dictates how new hires are paid. That makes it ACPA's complete business. It means the ACPA membership would have to ratify it. I can't see it getting through the membership. Why on earth would ACPA even consider making its own pilots second class to another pilot group????

In the interest of full disclosure. Yes I am new at AC. 3rd year flat salary and I expect all new hires to be treated equally. I also quit a 6 figure job to come to AC.

I also agree new hire pay sucks. It should be addressed IMO. But for all new hires. No special treatment for a select group. GGN pilots next?

Something tells me I have been simply nieve. I am slowly getting the full picture as to why no deal between these two groups has ever happened. Nor possibly can happen. Demographics seems to be playing a major roll which in turn is driving demands that don't appear realistically achievable. Nor very balanced considering employment hinges on contract renewal. Even continued examples of legacy regionals getting knifed over cost issues doesn't seem to sink in. I'm starting to see futility in the situation.

At the end of the day this is your choice to make. You have leverage at the moment yes. At some point down the road you will have none. It's up to you to decide. In my view your choices are controlled pain now or risk maximum pain later. What you guys seem to be trying to do is create a third option called no pain all.

Every single AC pilot has endured financial pain in exchange for employment. Why should Jazz pilots have special exemption?

Are you being straight with yourself believing option three actually exists? In my view option three is a distraction that only increases the risk of maximum pain. CR has demonstrated repeatedly that he has no issue with a scorched earth approach. And you know what? He hasn't paid the piper for it either. Look at all those Aveos employees gone. Are the mechanics fighting back in a way that is impacting the operation? No. Look at FOS? Is ACPA fighting back in a way that impacts the operation? No. CUPE is losing flying left right and centre. Are they on a war path that actually impacts the operation? Nope.

CUPE did a flash mob in front of TC over the 1:50 rule. That will show CR

The Aveos employees refused to become more productive. They showed CR.

Everyone is just falling in line.

If anything he is probably embolden by his scorched earth results.

[dukepoint]

That is correct kingtwo, Jazz had no scope on their own, the only protection was in ACPA's contract, Jazz was the only tier 2 allowed. When the MEC agreed to let CR create SR and then along came FOS which allowed the transfer of the 175s our new reality was completely out of our hands.
Dukepoint, I can completely understand your concerns regarding your choice to go to AC and now being faced with the possibility of Jazz pilots who were junior to you prior to your move now coming over above you, very unlikely, if anything there would be a BOTL. As far as pay goes, if AC is willing to pay for years of service for long time "AC" service what business is that of yours? Remember Jazz at one point was wholly owned by AC. I suppose it bothers you that most Jazz pilots still have C2 travel priority as well.
When I was hired by Jazz, I was prevented from applying at AC as an off the street pilot, in fact I still have the email correspondence with HR that told me to update my application with my date of hire and they would call me when my "number" comes up. You see for me, day 3 of orientation week at Jazz I was offered my choice of interview dates at AC but because I was a newly hired Jazz pilot I was not allowed to attend, even though AC, through ACE only owned 30% of Jazz, we were not a separate as you and others would like to believe.
Selfish on my part, much like your viewpoint, Jazz pilots absolutely deserve consideration for their years of service.

I have no fear of any merger. For the record I'm around half-way on the list. My concern is for the Junior Membership. I would never stand for even the very last ACPA pilot going junior to a single person outside the current list. Most of us wouldn't.

As stated, a merger would be a non-starter. BOTL would be one possible scenario. The other would be to allow more 75 seat aircraft at Tier 2, so long as an equivalent number of aircraft. --not seat equivalent----- would appear at the mainline first. If one aircraft left the Mainline, a 75 seat fin would leave Tier 2 first. These are the only two scenarios I see as being remotely palatable by AC pilots at this time. Like mentioned previously, the deal is going to have to be aweful sweet, aweful sweet, and ironclad.

DP.

[Localizer]

Ironclad and awful sweet? You belong to a union .. The current political landscape won't allow either of those. The Conservatives have already displayed what leverage any union has with business .. Little to none.

[Rogerdodger2]

ACPA has lost all leverage and ability to negotiate ironclad contracts for its members. After the last contract fiasco I'd be concerned if I were a member of that group. Working conditions at AC will continue to get worse and 2nd tier will continue to receive more flying. It's the sad reality of aviation in North America.

[TheStig]

Ironclad and awful sweet? You belong to a union .. The current political landscape won't allow either of those. The Conservatives have already displayed what leverage any union has with business .. Little to none.

Actually the current language is pretty strong, which is why one of the primary reasons it wants to 'talk' with ACPA.

I've enjoyed reading this thread and there have been lots interesting ideas. I'll admit that I'd always just assumed AC wanted larger aircraft flown at the Tier 2 level, not actually more sub-75 seat aircraft to be flown overall to mirror that ratios flown south of the boarder, thanks for pointing that out FanBlade.

Just looking at a few of the ideas however, such as flow through, I'm not so sure. I can see how it makes sense from a pilots perspective, but from AC managements perspective I'm not sure they'd entertain the idea. I have lots of friends flying at Jazz and not only are they some of the best pilots I have the pleasure of flying with, but also some of the best people I have the pleasure of knowing. Despite this, every single one has been interviewed and rejected by AC. Now personally I feel this is Air Canada's loss, but regardless, why would Air Canada agree to hiring pilots its never screened, but also, those it's interviewed and rejected? It's worth mentioning that the GGN cadets are being interviewed by AC and given two offers of employment.

Secondly, the one list idea misses the theme of Air Canada's executive mantra. They expect their vendors to be competitive and provide services at or below market rates. Put another way, reducing Jazz' costs isn't their problem, finding alternatives was. Now that SR and GGN are operating it's expected of Jazz to be competitive with Porter and Encore. Remember what the CEO told the Globe Investor, "we want everyone to share our pain." They aren't trying to get rid of Jazz, and there is lots of growth potential, but it's going to come at a price.

[dukepoint]

Ironclad and awful sweet? You belong to a union .. The current political landscape won't allow either of those. The Conservatives have already displayed what leverage any union has with business .. Little to none.

We are NOT negotiating a new contract. The Company has approached ACPA and wants to deal. If we don't like that deal we'll walk.... no obligation. There is nothing wrong with waiting till 2016 to negotiate a proper, fair deal. So, yes indeed, any changes will have to be "sweet and ironclad" to be palatable at this time. Of course unless we're foolish and fall for "shiny promises". There is always that danger.

However, I hope the Membership remembers that promises made have been regularly broken. Just look at the fleet guarantees made during FOS. Where, exactly, is all that growth promised??? We'd better be friggin' careful.

What's that old saying? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...........ACPA is working on "fool me" for the fifteenth time.... What does that say about us? What does that say about the Company?

The political landscape may change in 2015, and it may be prudent to just wait, regardless of what's offered. It might be wise to have the shackles of Bill C-33 lifted prior to negotiating anything.

DP.

[Localizer]

TheStig,

AC has not interviewed all Jazz pilots. The current language isn't strong, it requires conversation. AC foresees the future and lack of experience coming up the ranks, better to nail down 1500 experienced pilots before they make WestJet/Encore one of the best performing airlines in NA.

DP,

Stop worrying about the Embraer it's gone one way or another, just because AC puts out a press release that it's staying at mainline, that only means "for now" silently. Those "shiny promises" I'm sure will become reality. Your right about a political change in 2015 ..... Probably a good reason for them to talk now.

[dukepoint]

TheStig,

AC has not interviewed all Jazz pilots. The current language isn't strong, it requires conversation. AC foresees the future and lack of experience coming up the ranks, better to nail down 1500 experienced pilots before they make WestJet/Encore one of the best performing airlines in NA.

DP,

Stop worrying about the Embraer it's gone one way or another, just because AC puts out a press release that it's staying at mainline, that only means "for now" silently. Those "shiny promises" I'm sure will become reality. Your right about a political change in 2015 ..... Probably a good reason for them to talk now.

Not worried about the Embraer. They can park them at their convienience. They will, however, not be flown with an AC code attached by any entity other than ACPA.

The International growth mentioned in FOS will come. In fact it's imminent. Why not attempt to secure Scope changes at no cost? Eight Mainline 767's will be staying at Mainline. Winglets and glass to come. Quote me. This announcement will be made concurrent with the "breakthrough" inter-contract agreement reached with ACPA, "signaling a new era of cooperation and mutual goodwill". Unfortunately we will have "paid" when there was NO NEED. This is just the beginning.

These "Negotitions" are simply lip-service, nothing more. It's the simple "carrot" trick. Widebodys at the top for bottom end Scope concessions. It's a weak attempt to garner major Scope concessions and a bit of "cooperative goodwill" without any cost whatsoever.

The Company is simply trying to "wring" some more concessions from the pilot group prior to their announcement. Hence the "rush". Quote me on that too.

DP.

[hithere]

If the E190 won't be flown by any CPA carrier, then what kind of scope concessions are you talking about? sub 75 seat jet flying is already allowed in the existing FOS so unless you are talking Cseries, I don't know where you are coming from

[Fanblade]

TheStig,

AC has not interviewed all Jazz pilots. The current language isn't strong, it requires conversation. AC foresees the future and lack of experience coming up the ranks, better to nail down 1500 experienced pilots before they make WestJet/Encore one of the best performing airlines in NA.

DP,

Stop worrying about the Embraer it's gone one way or another, just because AC puts out a press release that it's staying at mainline, that only means "for now" silently. Those "shiny promises" I'm sure will become reality. Your right about a political change in 2015 ..... Probably a good reason for them to talk now.

Not worried about the Embraer. They can park them at their convienience. They will, however, not be flown with an AC code attached by any entity other than ACPA.

The International growth mentioned in FOS will come. In fact it's imminent. Why not attempt to secure Scope changes at no cost? Eight Mainline 767's will be staying at Mainline. Winglets and glass to come. Quote me. This announcement will be made concurrent with the "breakthrough" inter-contract agreement reached with ACPA, "signaling a new era of cooperation and mutual goodwill". Unfortunately we will have "paid" when there was NO NEED. This is just the beginning.

These "Negotitions" are simply lip-service, nothing more. It's the simple "carrot" trick. Widebodys at the top for bottom end Scope concessions. It's a weak attempt to garner major Scope concessions and a bit of "cooperative goodwill" without any cost whatsoever.

The Company is simply trying to "wring" some more concessions from the pilot group prior to their announcement. Hence the "rush". Quote me on that too.

DP.

Disagree,

This pilot group needs seniority progression restored. That means doing something with the Rouge pay scales/captain steps.

Now the greedy side of me says. Don't fix it. I will be a CA faster and make more money. I'm way junior to you. If that's what you want I will take it. Thank you!

Kidding. Well not really. If it comes my way I won't turn it down.

We are on the same page on most everything. Except I don't think fixing this issue in exchange for something else is concessionary.

It all depends on the horse trade which I will wait to gauge once, or if, there is a deal.

If we don't get something in return? Of course it is no.

[Gino Under]

This is why Canadian airlines are a waste of time for most pilots. Certainly Air Canada.
Anyone reading through this drivel must be amazed at the childish level of commentary and wonder why on earth would anyone want to join such a fuctup airline?
It's all about the union, what it can control and those who sit at the top of that gaggle of disgruntled employees are going to dictate to the membership why everyone should be pistoff.
First year pay. Scope clause. We'll show CR what's what and how it's going to be.
You live in fantasy land. You just haven't woken up from your nap.
One day.
One day, maybe. The ACPA crowd will stop their bawling and stop throwing their toys out of their crib.
Most of us find it unprofessional.

AT least I do.
Gino Under

[dukepoint]

If the E190 won't be flown by any CPA carrier, then what kind of scope concessions are you talking about? sub 75 seat jet flying is already allowed in the existing FOS so unless you are talking Cseries, I don't know where you are coming from

First I gotta say, "Thanks for coming out Gino". Ya, let's just give CR all the keys to the bus. We'll all be working for $40k a year tomorrow. 40k will attract individuals with zero talent, and constant wrecks will ensue. Some groups of cry baby's are attempting to stop the " slide into the gutter" that this profession appears to be headed toward. I've got to agree, scope is such a stupid concept. How's that working for Qantas exactly, down under? Brilliant.

With regard to the above quote, I guess we have to wait for whatever "horse-trade" our TA1'esqe, Negotiating Team has in mind. Our MEC has shown that ensuring the Company maximizes the gains they extracted from the pilot group during FOS, is clearly more important than Scope security; ACPA Constitution be damned.

Edited for grammar.

DP.

[Gino Under]

Dukepoint

Look. On some level, I share and understand your concerns.
I understand your "battles", but I don't agree with most of them because I happen to think ACPA's outdated plan of attack is simply no longer relevant or strategically applicable to winning any war. The industry has not only changed, it's moved on. ACPA hasn't. Or, at least, it doesn't sound like they have. We've been listening to the same old same old now, for decades.

Read through this entire thread again if you find what I'm saying hard to believe. Union members feed off their collective propaganda and beliefs. No matter how outdated (matter of opinion) they might be. Like many things, eventually you're convinced these are not only THE "issues", they're issues worth running the company out of business over.

Okay.

The realities today aren't the realities of the 90s but ACPA seems to be unaware of these facts by the very nature of the "battles" and "arguments" it insists on engaging and re-engaging in. Scope is dead or dying. Regional airlines are a dying breed with no more $eat guarantees or legacy handout$. They are failing, merging, or simply going chapter 11. Pilot flying is a changing dynamic in the mix and a reality of what IS today's very competitive airline business, right along with who does the flying and how much of it they do. I understand the pilot investment in those decisions and why ACPA needs to be engaged. But in more relevant areas because they simply won't get to control the flying they imagine they will.

This comes as no surprise to either one of us. But, how long do you think it will be before our regionals are toast? Canada doesn't have the traffic or safety net other nations have. So how do you imagine Air Canada should plan and prepare for that future while its unions are running interference?

The unions at Eastern Airlines stood up to Frank Lorenzo when Eastern were bankrupt and on the welcome mat of failure. Where are they today?

Why should we care?
Well, in my opinion, the merger solution of a United-Continental, US Air-American, Delta-Northwest, isn't an option in Canada. If Air Canada goes down, no one's kidding themselves anymore, the Canadian government isn't likely to bail them out when Westjet is financially solid and doing as well as they are. No more shotgun marriages.

It's certainly a high degree of arrogance on the part of any pilot union to think they can run or should control the fate of an airline.

If the present Express experiment (divide and conquer) doesn't bare fruit, it will be abandoned or shut down and something new will be invented or created. Are you ready for that and where does your union stand on that? How are they preparing for it?

Qantas?
Note: this is NOT Australia. This is NOT Australia's economy.
Certainly, Canadian travellers don't necessarily share the same travel habits of their Australian counterparts. These facts alone translate into totally different airlines and totally different airline policies. I hate to say it but, apples - oranges.
Population of Canada - 35 million
Population of Australia - 23 million
There are numerous reasons why Air Canada, Qantas and Singapore Airlines aren't the same airlines. Don't have the same traffic figures. Certainly, the pilot groups at these airlines differ greatly as do the issues they face. So, what might be exemplary in Australia has no guarantee of succeeding here. Maybe you could explain why none of these considerations appear in the union banter, arguments or presentations?

Pilots who don't want to work for 40K a year, simply don't. I don't.

I'm sure this isn't news to you but like everything in Canadian aviation, the union rhetoric IS getting a little tired and worn out.

This profession doesn't 'appear' to be headed for the gutter. It HAS been headed in that direction for years. I certainly haven't been able to recognize what ACPA has done to change that. You?

From what I see, we're surrounded by pilots who are sick and tired of watching the pilot profession continue its "slide into the gutter". But, if there's one thing I've experienced over the last 30 years it's been the fact that the airlines themselves continue that "slide into the gutter" right along with us. So, who's to blame? Isn't that the chicken or the egg question all over again?

Temper tantrums from pilot unions don't change a thing. If pilots stopped looking for work at these companies, if pilots went to work at other companies offering better wages and working conditions, if pilots started to behave like the professionals they should be, and NOT accept sh*t wages, there would, out of necessity, be changes. That's the only way it WILL change.

That's the fantasy world I live in, which is apparently quite different to the fantasy world you're living in.

In the end, I'm sure we agree on far more things aviation than not.
Sorry this turned out a bit long winded.

Cheers,
Gino Under

[Localizer]

Good post Gino.

[dukepoint]

I have to agree with some of the things you said. I don't have the energy to respond go every point however, in order to understand what's happening in Canada, you have to understand Big Red a little better, and it's role in the Canadian economy. By Canada, I mean Ontario and Quebec......sorry Alberta.

AC code still flys more seat miles out of Westjets main hub than they do by a significant margin. "Ninety Widebodys, not Westjet is" (fleet plan) as my favourite Star Wars character would say. There are huge shoes to fill. I'm confident of AC's role in our fine country, and will be for some time to come. We endeavour to maintain Wacon conditions that make it a great place to work. When the "Parliamentary account" heads Westjets way, I'll be a little more concerned than right now. For what it's worth, I understand that Canada does not exist in isolation, and we have challenges ahead.

As odd as it sounds, bring on AC's demise. I'd love to merge with Westjet. We have far more experience at merging, and should do just fine. Besides, I believe Westjet intends to pay it's Widebody pilots far better than our Rouge experiment, so bring it on.


FWIW........the Embraers to Tier 2 are NOT a topic of discussion with regard to Scope. The remaining 20 are going to the desert/sold. The Company is looking for 320/737-800's and possibly the 8 330's in YUL at Rouge with a fair amount of expansion. A little birdy told me.

DP.

[rudder]

FWIW........the Embraers to Tier 2 are NOT a topic of discussion with regard to Scope. The remaining 20 are going to the desert/sold. The Company is looking for 320/737-800's and possibly the 8 330's in YUL at Rouge with a fair amount of expansion. A little birdy told me.

FYI - it is 25 Embraers that were not taken by Boeing as part of the MAX order. But the rest of the statement makes perfect sense.

If you want to play in the sandbox then you require the right tools. The 319's at Rouge is a joke. Lowest fuel cost per seat in category is provided by the -800's (and then it will be the MAX8's). A substitution to 320's would still leave AC/Rouge uncompetitive on an operating cost basis vs WJ/SW/AT.

And as for the A330's - they are orphans. Best place would be Rouge paint based out of YUL going head-to-head on AT routes.

You are right, lots of potential expansion. Where do you think all of the pilots are going to come from?

[Gino Under]

I think it's safe to say in the not too distant future a good number of Canadian pilots are likely to begin their migration home. They'll come from such companies as Cathay Pacific, Qatar Airways, Emirates, Etihad, Singapore Airlines, Air China. All over. Chased overseas by a dysfunctional airline industry in the first place, these pilots will bring home great qualifications with wide body, international flying experience and most will have thousands of command hours to offer prospective Canadian airline employers.

You'd think the notion would bring welcomed relief from that suspected pilot shortage we're constantly hearing about.

I bet our airlines, given the choice, would welcome this talent with open arms and a sigh of relief. Unfortunately, this wealth of qualification and experience isn't likely be greeted with the open arms one would expect because the pilot unions for the most part (and ACPA in particular), will ensure these pilots sit junior F/O at a junior base on junior equipment while they haggle over minor issues like Tier II and Tier III flying that's likely to be irrelevant in the near future. All the while proclaiming to the rest of us that our profession is "sliding into the gutter" as if they had no part to play in it. After all, seniority is more important than qualifications and experience.

Sorry, but I for one don't think there's another airline merger in Canada any more than I see success in Rouge's future. Again, because unions are trying to dictate to their employer how things are going to be instead of following the leadership that conceived Rouge in the first place and who have the vision and plan to steer it toward success. Will it be another ZIP? Tango?

Je dit pas deux, sans trois.

As I've already said (as an outside observer), I think it would be in the union's better interests to find better, more serious issues to tackle. This is not the U.S.A. and some battles just aren't worth fighting and hopefully the day will come when some realize the very existence of Air Canada Express is already evidence of battles lost and the direction in which we're headed.

Best of luck to Air Georgian, Sky Regional and Chorus. And especially to Rouge.

Gino Under