Cat & Doc

[cdnpilot77]

and i'm still flying a dc3 - lmfaooooooooo

Because you just never grew up, old friend.
Illya

And it's got PT-6's on it, so you can hang with the youngins!

[flyinthebug]

Doc is a personal friend, a brother if you will, and has been a mentor to me for many years. I can assure you that the Doc you get here, is the same Doc IRL. He is a teacher, mentor, and he tells it like it is whether it hurts your feelings or not. He earned my respect 20+ years ago and thats never changed.

Cat is such a wealth of knowledge that I cant believe the way he is mistreated and attacked on this site at times, usually by snot nose kids that have a shiny new CPL in their back pockets. I had the extreme pleasure of flying with Cat for one single day back in the 90s. He did some contract flying for us, and when we found out . was coming to fly for us that day, I recall the excitement in the pilots room. It was like a living legend was coming to show us how its done. God knows I and others annoyed the hell outta him with (what likely seemed to him) like annoying questions...but he took the time to answer each and every one with a smile on his face. I could think of alot worse mentors than Cat.

Maybe Cat & Doc aren`t the most eloquent writers in the world. Maybe their delivery could be a bit more "gentle" in an effort not to offend the new generation. BUT if you so called "mature" pilots had half the common sense you think you have, you would ignore the delivery and listen to the message.

I dont know the Colonel, but I do know hes offensive even to me at times...but if you listen to just the message and forget the dick measuring, his content is always bang on as well.

These men have well over 25K hours. They all have been flying for well over 40 years and in Cat`s case, closer to 60. They are still here to tell their stories and share their experiences, so they must be doing something right. I think the new generation are a bunch of entitled kids (yes KIDS) that feel us guys with some grey whiskers have nothing to add to a conversation about flying....after all we flew NDB approaches and didnt have GPS nor had we even heard of them when I started flying (1984). RNAV approaches? What are they? BUT the actual art of flying is a skill set. The pilots on AF447 lacked those basic skills and we all know the results.

Us older guys come from a time when hands and feet saved your ass, not a FMS or computer. As someone mentioned above, the physics of flying havent changed, just the technology.

Maybe if showed a bit more respect to people like Cat and Doc, they wouldnt feel "run off" by the younger generation that seems to know it all and have no need for mentoring or advice. Im 50, and I still seek the advice of my mentors. Two of them were well known on here (Doc & Old Fog Ducker) and we lost them both...they were BANNED...because they shot from the hip and told it like it is. This world has become so sensative to everything, that we are missing out on important information from important people in our chosen field. If the owners of this site had any idea of who they banned in these two gentlemen, they would be ashamed of themselves.

Its the content of the message that matters, forget the delivery. Remember its OK to get your feelings hurt once in awhile and its OK to be wrong as well.

Fly safe all and Cat, enjoy your road trip.

FTB

[Cat Driver]

There were many high time pilots on Avcanada with flawless careers who no longer post here.

They no longer post post here.

I do not post much because I am tired of the constant need to defend myself from posters such as those who just got through making snide comments such as we just saw where I felt compelled to justify my license to fly in the airshow circuit in Europe based on the type of airplane they thought I was flying.

So fu.k e'm.

Life is to short for me now to have to defend myself from people who hide behind made up names on the internet.

P.S....

To Rookie50.

I read your posts and like your attitude you understand the basics that I used to have as a tagline on my posts.

The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

[TG]

That's because you pass as a snid arrogante old brat here.


Which is certainly not what you are in real life so don't take this comment above personally.



Messages delivery issues that's all.

[Rookie50]

There were many high time pilots on Avcanada with flawless careers who no longer post here.

They no longer post post here.

I do not post much because I am tired of the constant need to defend myself from posters such as those who just got through making snide comments such as we just saw where I felt compelled to justify my license to fly in the airshow circuit in Europe based on the type of airplane they thought I was flying.

So fu.k e'm.

Life is to short for me now to have to defend myself from people who hide behind made up names on the internet.

P.S....

To Rookie50.

I read your posts and like your attitude you understand the basics that I used to have as a tagline on my posts.

The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

Thanks Cat. I've said no a lot in my short career. I'm a chicken and always want a back door out. Slowly I am gaining experience in different situations -- I think a key is at right pace. Mentors are critical, and I look forward to mentoring myself.

[Cat Driver]

Better to be a live chicken than a dead duck.

[NWONT]

Yes, cdn, I did miss your *sarcasm note. Many things go over my head these days sorry I didn't catch it or totally understand it. Every time I see Cat make a post I start my egg timer to see how long it takes for some child to hurl an insult as in the airshow remark. If Cat started to list all his qualifications, of course many no longer valid, and all his accomplishments, many he doesn't even remember himself because it wasn't that big a deal, it would take pages to do it. Now I'm not suggesting you build a statue to him in the town square but when he's got something to say you all could show him the respect that you would to your Father, Uncle or any family elder. Not too much to ask. Antique Pilot has posted many pictures of pilots and Engineers from days gone by. I knew and worked with many of them and I`m still in awe of them. I learned so much from them by listening to them in froze over snow cover shacks throughout the north. It`s so amazing what dedication to your craft, not big paychecks, because there wasn`t any of those ,can accomplish. Accidents happened every day and the engineers would repair the damage and get the machine back to base any way they could. A little respect for these trailblazers, pilots and engineers both, wouldn`t kill anyone. I also have a turntable which I use. I still have 33&3, 45`s and even 78`s, if you know what they are.

[cdnpilot77]

Yes, cdn, I did miss your *sarcasm note. Many things go over my head these days sorry I didn't catch it or totally understand it.

I of course fit in to the "middle aged" group so naturally had to make it the most "important", sarcastically of course!

However, my initial point was, we are almost exclusively grown up, in age terms, on this website but for some reason teenage drama seems to follow these threads around and it is annoying as hell to sift through to actually get to the meat of a thread.

[Colonel Sanders]

Mdh: thank you for that thoughtful reply.

PilotDAR has done me the favour of dropping by. Great speaking to him in person.

When can we expect your visit? People here are excited to see your tailwheel jets that you speak of.

[cdnpilot77]

Here's the thing, as a previous poster mentioned, if you have thin skin, you're gonna have a tough time. Don't listen to the words, read the message!

CS, doc (that prick lol) and Sulako, among others, have been instrumental in helping me build my career. None of these guys are touchy feely with their words but all have very large amounts of insight and it behooves (yup I used it but don't know if it's spelled correctly) one to listen to what these "old" guys have to say. I think I have been pretty successful in a short period of time and would be nowhere without these guys!

[NWONT]

It's not about thin skin, it's about respect for those that went before you and blazed the trail. It's one thing to sling shit at others on your own level but if you can't respect your elders (I'm sure your Mother taught you that) then respect you betters. Most will only accomplish one thing or career in their lives. But Cat has done so much in so many different areas of aviation and is quite qualified to comment in them.

[Big Pistons Forever]

In less than 2 years I will celebrate my 40 th year as a pilot. I have every aeroplane license and rating you can get and 6 type ratings on transport category and/or high performance aircraft.

But

1) Just because I am an older guy I don't think I should automatically get respect for anything I say. I am happy to be judged by what I write and hopefully will influence others by the force and logic of my arguments not just because of the number of years I have been flying or the the numbers of hours I have.

2) Just because I am older guy doesn't mean I still can't learn from others, regardless of age or experience

3) I don't post for the guys that answer, I post for the 90 % of those who look but don't post. Throughout my time flying I was, and continue to be helped, by many others who took the time to explain/teach/challenge me. I hope my posts help pay that debt forward.

[frozen solid]

People here are excited to see your tailwheel jets that you speak of.

I read that the ME262 was originally built with a tailwheel. The way the exhaust hit the tail after being deflected by the pavement made it impossible to get the tail up even at high speed, and the test pilot would tap the brakes during the takeoff roll to raise the tail. I guess the technique made them a bit nervous so they put a nose wheel on it. That's why the 262 has such a spindly nosewheel leg and why it was notorious for breaking: it was designed as an afterthought.

True story!

Well, it could be true. I'm certainly not making it up.

[Colonel Sanders]

I know there is a project to build several me262 replicas, but to the best of my knowledge they are all the later nosewheel variants.

This is why I am so impressed with mdh - he has the original tailwheel versions of the me262 which I really want to see in person!

[Illya Kuryakin]

Was it an actual tail wheel, or a skid? Thought it was a skid.
Illya

[Shiny Side Up]

Maybe he has a rare Supermarine Attacker...

[PilotDAR]

I'm not quite there for licenses and type ratings, but otherwise...

In less than 2 years I will celebrate my 40 th year as a pilot. I have every aeroplane license and rating you can get and 6 type ratings on transport category and/or high performance aircraft.

But

1) Just because I am an older guy I don't think I should automatically get respect for anything I say. I am happy to be judged by what I write and hopefully will influence others by the force and logic of my arguments not just because of the number of years I have been flying or the the numbers of hours I have.

2) Just because I am older guy doesn't mean I still can't learn from others, regardless of age or experience

3) I don't post for the guys that answer, I post for the 90 % of those who look but don't post. Throughout my time flying I was, and continue to be helped, by many others who took the time to explain/teach/challenge me. I hope my posts help pay that debt forward.

+1

[NWONT]

Whether or not that you feel you deserve respect for your achievements is totally up to you. I have no idea what they are. I know airlines have hired low time pilots for the right seat and they have spent their entire careers at some flight level or another. I know a few guys that were never in command of an aircraft until they moved to the left seat of an airliner. Are you one of those? I don't know. Did you work your way up through the bush? Have you flown a DC-3 or the like on skis? Have you been a water-bomber pilot? Have you flown an unpressurized, radial engine aircraft around the world? It's my personal choice to respect the men that did these things as I also spent many years as a pilot and engineer on this type of aircraft working in the north and I well know the challenges involved here. I respect the engineers that busted their knuckles repairing aircraft in severe conditions. I learned so much from these men but it's all worthless knowledge now as aviation has moved to a new era and these days are pretty much gone forever. Cat used to post a few pictures on here and one that really impressed my was of him flying a Canso across the Sahara Desert. What a great shot with the red sand below. I respect his achievements and those like him that have experienced so many different areas of aviation and not just the airline life. I agree with you, you don't deserve respect just for putting in 40 years on the job. It's what you have seen, done and experienced over those years that matter. It's your call if you deserve respect or not but you sure as hell don't deserve insults from some child just starting out in this business.

[YYZSaabGuy]

I'm not quite there for licenses and type ratings, but otherwise...

In less than 2 years I will celebrate my 40 th year as a pilot. I have every aeroplane license and rating you can get and 6 type ratings on transport category and/or high performance aircraft.

But

1) Just because I am an older guy I don't think I should automatically get respect for anything I say. I am happy to be judged by what I write and hopefully will influence others by the force and logic of my arguments not just because of the number of years I have been flying or the the numbers of hours I have.

2) Just because I am older guy doesn't mean I still can't learn from others, regardless of age or experience

3) I don't post for the guys that answer, I post for the 90 % of those who look but don't post. Throughout my time flying I was, and continue to be helped, by many others who took the time to explain/teach/challenge me. I hope my posts help pay that debt forward.

+1

A BIG +1 for me too. I'm nowhere near either PilotDAR or BPF from a licensing and rating standpoint - not even close. Like them, however, I believe respect is earned, not automatically accrued as a result of putting in time. The posters from whom I learn are the ones, like PilotDAR and BPF, and ifly, and complexintentions, and EricJanson, and treykule, and SSU, and Rockie, pelmet, RealityChex, photofly, and AuxBatOn (although we'll likely never agree on the F-35), who usually manage to subsume their personalities and stick to the real deal: presenting their experience, arguing logically, paying it forward without belittling or condescending to the rest of us.

A nice contrast to the drama queen schtick frequently relied on by several of the more frequent posters mentioned in this thread.

[PilotDAR]

I can recall, particularly in my early flying days, being the third of forth available choice for a task sometimes. I might be the lesser experienced or qualified person available. But I would see other People say: "I'm not doing that", or "why am I bothering with this?", or simply "meh". 'Their choice, of course, but the job still needed doing, and now they were gone, I was first in line. I cleaned a lot of filthy aircraft bellies, dealt with some grumpy passengers, and lifted a lot of heavy stuff. Soon, I started getting asked first, and the jobs got way better too...

I still clean aircraft bellies (but now only the ones I own), and lift heavy stuff, but it's 'cause I want it moved. I've learned compassion for the "meh" people of the world, sometimes they get the different path, I hope it's what they wanted.....

I'll sit for hours, still a bit wide eyed, and listen to Cat's stories over his kitchen table....

[All Sides]

I-agree with you, you don't deserve respect just for putting in 40 years on the job. It's what you have seen, done and experienced over those years that matter. It's your call if you deserve respect or not but you sure as hell don't deserve insults from some child just starting out in this business.

I agree that slinging insults are unacceptable, regardless how much time you have in the industry. That goes for everyone posting on here whether you have 1 year or 60 years in the industry. I have pretty much been in the industry for the required 40 years, I don't treat a low timer any different than a high timer. A lot of high timers have long ago quit posting on here not because of just the new generation, but because of the behaviour of some of the past generations. Having a full logbook doesn't automatically earn other pilots respect, acting like a professional with an impressive logbook and flying record does.

[Cat Driver]

NWONT......


About half my working experience in aviation was as an airplane mechanic and the wroking conditions were brutal at times......

......we did engine changes outside in the Arctic with temperatures below minus fifty degrees C.

......but the most difficult was in Jeddah outside on the ramp with the daily temps above plus fifty C.

.....had to cover the wings with carpets were we were working or we wouldhave got third degree burns through our coveralls and at least once a day I had to lance the water blisters on my feet.

We really earned our pay but we never quit because it was to difficult.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I know Cat. I used to have to walk up hill, in bare feet, in the middle of winter, five miles, to and from work as well. Nobody is impressed anymore.
Illya

[frozen solid]

Was it an actual tail wheel, or a skid? Thought it was a skid.
Illya

I know there is a project to build several me262 replicas, but to the best of my knowledge they are all the later nosewheel variants.

I don't know if it was a skid or a wheel, now that you mention it. I think it was just the first or first couple of prototypes. All the operational ones were nose wheels.

The company that is making replicas (or "made".. I think they actually finished that project) were originally hired to cosmetically restore the "gate guardian" ME 262 for a USAF base in Texas... they offered to do it for free if they could use the aircraft as a pattern for the new ones. The engines were quite interesting too, they made an external shell to resemble an old Junkers Jumo 004, and buried a modern little engine in it that has a similar thrust rating. So when you open the cowl it looks like the real thing, including the mounts.

I thought it was a really cool project, I really hope to see one someday. In general I don't get enthusiastic about German wartime stuff, but that jet, man, I love that thing.


Just as a side note, I'm not trying to be a troll, but I just find the subject of aeroplanes, and especially jets with tailwheels, (that Supermarine Attacker, my goodness what an attractive aircraft!) a lot more interesting than this circuitous never-ending debate about who deserves whose respect. There are a lot of low-time pilots I work with (well, a few anyway) who have earned my respect, and there are some high-time pilots I have met who have somehow bumbled their way through a long career of semi-competence without a scratch. There are some pilots who post here who are approaching apotheosis in the aviation world with the scope and breadth of their experience, others who are slightly less salty but can't control their frustration at the lack of respect you get on online forums (truly the lowest form of communication, no?), there are even one or two guys here who deliberately portray themselves as old salts when I happen to know they aren't. I can't decide if they are doing it on purpose or not.

I'm still an "aviation enthusiast". I like talking about tailwheel jets, or floatplanes, or radial engines, or antique or historical aircraft, and also navigation, and how engines work. I have no interest in this "cultural angst" that a lot of you guys seem to be experiencing. Seems frustrating and it bores the crap out of me. I've had my little spats here and there, but I have an inherent love of mischief and sometimes I can't help reaching out and yanking a tail feather now and then.

And some of you guys would come across a lot smarter if your spelling and grammar were a bit better. Cat Driver's spelling and grammar are excellent, and he says he only finished grade ten.

Now, the Supermarine Attacker... has anyone actually seen one?

[Liquid Charlie]

I know Cat. I used to have to walk up hill, in bare feet, in the middle of winter, five miles, to and from work as well. Nobody is impressed anymore.
Illya

I was lucky -- I drove the tractor -- but then again there is nothing like meadow muffins oozing between your toes -- ah the days of my youth spent on the farm -- boys were boys and the cows were nervous -- and the airplane parked in the pasture field ---