First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

cdnpilot77 wrote:
midwingcrisis wrote:What are the obvious signs they will not? Wasaya's own leadership has indicated otherwise. Many Native owned enterprises as others have failed without Government help.
Can you Name a native owned airline that is the "lifeline" of dozens of reserves that has been allowed to fail. There just aren't many on that scale and there is nothing in Northern Ontario that can immediately take over their service. Rightly or wrongly, it will not go away without a propup from the government.
That's the sunshine they keep pumping up everybody else's you know what. That they are a "life line", that nobody can replace them. Well, that's total BS! The day they cash in their chips, somebody would waltz in, buy the needed machinery at fire sale prices, hire the operating staff (pilots etc.) they need, give it a new name, hit the throttles, and problem solved.
TC would be under tremendous pressure to fast track the OC and paper work.
Meanwhile, Frank K's big yellow birds would take up the slack. As would Northstar, Air Bravo, Thunder Airlines, and everybody else. The pop, pampers and chips would continue to flow.
The owner communities, now released from their multi million dollar debts, would be dancing around the camp fire!
The dead meat at the helm would be out panhandling until their EI cheques came in, and all would be well in the north.
Wasaya would leave a void.......for a few days.
Illya
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fish4life
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by fish4life »

You fail to mention 3 heads of the EIC monster that are just waiting for it to happen and ready to fill in on a moments notice actually between Perimeter, bearskin and Calm Air it would hurt for a bit but they would easily be able to cover everything.
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Crusty
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Crusty »

Can you Name a native owned airline that is the "lifeline" of dozens of reserves that has been allowed to fail.
Not sure but wasn't NAC exactly that?
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cdnpilot77
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by cdnpilot77 »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:
cdnpilot77 wrote:
midwingcrisis wrote:What are the obvious signs they will not? Wasaya's own leadership has indicated otherwise. Many Native owned enterprises as others have failed without Government help.
Can you Name a native owned airline that is the "lifeline" of dozens of reserves that has been allowed to fail. There just aren't many on that scale and there is nothing in Northern Ontario that can immediately take over their service. Rightly or wrongly, it will not go away without a propup from the government.
That's the sunshine they keep pumping up everybody else's you know what. That they are a "life line", that nobody can replace them. Well, that's total BS! The day they cash in their chips, somebody would waltz in, buy the needed machinery at fire sale prices, hire the operating staff (pilots etc.) they need, give it a new name, hit the throttles, and problem solved.
TC would be under tremendous pressure to fast track the OC and paper work.
Meanwhile, Frank K's big yellow birds would take up the slack. As would Northstar, Air Bravo, Thunder Airlines, and everybody else. The pop, pampers and chips would continue to flow.
The owner communities, now released from their multi million dollar debts, would be dancing around the camp fire!
The dead meat at the helm would be out panhandling until their EI cheques came in, and all would be well in the north.
Wasaya would leave a void.......for a few days.
Illya
There is nothing that could take on the pax service immediately on anywhere near the scale and scope that Wasaya did it was more what I was getting at. Anyone could run pop and chips but it is unrealistic to think TC can or would expedite a new OC. The only hope would be for the Calm Air/Perimeter/Bear alliance, but even then, would they want to?
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Passenger service between the reserves can hardly be referred to as an essential service. Food, perhaps. Medical, for sure. Both can be handled quite readily by other ops.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by cdnpilot77 »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Passenger service between the reserves can hardly be referred to as an essential service. Food, perhaps. Medical, for sure. Both can be handled quite readily by other ops.
Illya
The government and the bands will always disagree with that. At the end of the day, it will be completely irrelevant how you and I think, we know what they will do!
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Yup, we do. Write a really big cheque. Doesn't make it right.
Illya
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azimuthaviation
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by azimuthaviation »

cdnpilot77 wrote:Can you Name a native owned airline that is the "lifeline" of dozens of reserves
You wrote lifeline in quotation marks, who exactly are you quoting? Does the article or Wasaya itself in any publication or in its website refer to itself as the lifeline to anywhere or anyone?
Illya Kuryakin wrote:There'll always be government bail outs for First Nations operations... I imagine a bail out plan is in the offing


And here you are six months ago saying the same damn thing
They'll just dip their paws into the tax payer cookie jar, and all will start anew. It's what they do.
Shouldnt the taxpayer money have arrived by now?
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Things move slowly. I'll probably be saying the same thing six months from now. Your point is?
Illya
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sstaurus
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by sstaurus »

The solution is simple, raise the bonds! :smt040

(I'll see myself out)
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chu me
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by chu me »

It is interesting that someone asked if there were any native owned airlines that were making money, then when someone named five or six and the discussion changed to proving that they were actually making money. It seems that on this forum "native" owned or run airlines are continually having to prove themselves. However Air Canada which is losing more money than all " Native owned" airlines together and has been bailed out more times then I can count never receives the same treatment.

When I worked for a " Native " owned airline we never took a government handout or loan ( not even for start up ) and we were profitable from day one. In fact in our first year we were more profitable than Air Canada. Now someone will come on and say that we didn't have to pay any taxes on anything so we had an unfair advantage ( which is the usual argument ). Let me say that, unless the business is wholly conducted within the confines of a reserve, we pay all the same taxes as everyone else.

I remain very proud of that airline. It was profitable and took no handouts from anyone the same as most " Native" owned or run airlines are profitable and do not take handouts.

Now I will turn the argument around and ask you to prove that all " Native" run or owned airlines take hand outs or loans and that they receive special treatment from Revenue Canada ie no taxes. Prove that all non native airlines are not like Air Canada which hasn't made a profit in a while and continually takes taxpayer handouts and loan guarantees to get themselves out of trouble.

There, I'm done boys...........have at'er

Sincerely

Chu me
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midwingcrisis
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by midwingcrisis »

Dear chu me,

Your post above is somewhat confusing. My interpretation of your first paragraph is that Air Canada as well as all Native run or owned airlines are currently losing money. On what basis and information are you determining this? Deeper in your post you mention bailout(s), Government handout and loans. Is this specific to any airline in particular and if so would you mind to elaborate further?

As a reference, please find an attached link with Air Canada's financial statements as well as MD&As from period Q4 2006-Present.

I look forward to your response.

Respectfully,

midwingcrisis

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/inves ... terly.html
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azimuthaviation
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by azimuthaviation »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Your point is?
My point is youre obviously wrong, theres no money coming, yet you keep harping on it because you want to push some other agenda.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

azimuthaviation wrote:
Illya Kuryakin wrote:Your point is?
My point is youre obviously wrong, theres no money coming, yet you keep harping on it because you want to push some other agenda.
Why are you so hung up on what I think? No mind of your own? You're welcome to your opinion on the subject. So am I. Why are you harping in my direction? Dora the Explorer, not on your TV right now? You can always watch other cartoons.
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azimuthaviation
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by azimuthaviation »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Why are you so hung up on what I think?
Trust me, its not because I find it to be very wise or profound.
Illya Kuryakin wrote:Ya want your pop and chips?
Illya Kuryakin wrote:All in the name of pop, chips and Pampers......
Illya Kuryakin wrote:The pop, pampers and chips would continue to flow.
Doc wrote:If the bills aren't being paid, the pop and chips stop flowing.
Doc wrote:Pay the bill, you'll get more Pampers!
Doc wrote:keep flying the pop, chips and Pampers, to folks who don't pay their bills
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Somebody needs a life here. Who's Doc?
Illya
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azimuthaviation
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by azimuthaviation »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Somebody needs a life here. Who's Doc?
Illya
Somebody who shares your obsession with the dietary habits and the diaper brand of choice of the communities served by Wasaya.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: First Nation-owned Wasaya Airways ‘going down’

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

azimuthaviation wrote:
Illya Kuryakin wrote:Somebody needs a life here. Who's Doc?
Illya
Somebody who shares your obsession with the dietary habits and the diaper brand of choice of the communities served by Wasaya.
Pop and pampers have been a stable of northern communities since Christ rode horses (if he did) and is pretty common cargo on most northbound flights. Calling diapers "pampers" is like calling any facial tissue "Kleenex". Wouldn't put much weight in that. Sent you a PM. Really.
Back to the topic at hand now? Shall we?
Still think they'll get a bail out package. Not PC to let them go TU. YMMV
Illy
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