TBM-700 with Unresponsive Pilot Over Cuba

[I_Drive_Planes]

This is still developing:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/unresponsiv ... d4899803d0

2 F-15s escorted the airplane as far as Cuban airspace and noted the windows were frosted up. I read in a tweet from @NYCAviation that the pilot had been cleared from FL280 to FL250, and urgently requested lower, but did not declare an emergency.

[zulutime]

Praying for the best but expecting the worst....

[zulutime]

Just reported to have crashed off the coast of Jamaica....God Bless those on board.

[CpnCrunch]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to immediately program your autopilot to descend to 10000ft if you lose cabin pressure, and then tell ATC what you're doing?

[Illya Kuryakin]

If you lose cabin pressure, FAAK ATC, commence you descent RIGHT NOW, then tell them you are descending. Screw the nicesities. Sort it out late. Aviate, comes before communicate. Seriously, go down NOW. If you disagree, it's been special knowing you.
Illya.

[iflyforpie]

Quick donning O2 mask might be a good idea too.

My condolences.

[Kokanee]

If you lose cabin pressure, FAAK ATC, commence you descent RIGHT NOW, then tell them you are descending. Screw the nicesities. Sort it out late. Aviate, comes before communicate. Seriously, go down NOW. If you disagree, it's been special knowing you.
Illya.

A huge +1

Propeller aircraft can descend quicker than you think.

[oldtimer]

During a practice emergency descent, I can get 6000 fpm down with a Metro. Scary but it can be done.

[timel]

Quick donning O2 mask might be a good idea too.

My condolences.

Over FL250 aren't quick donning or easily accessible Oxy masks required?
Time of consciousness is about 1 min 45 seconds at those altitudes, I think for the non smokers.

I lost the pressurization once partially cabin was loosing +3000'/ min, we started descent right away and we asked for immediate descent to 10000', we took a good rate of descent and it was all good.

I guess TBM must have some cabin alt warnings?... Weird story!!

[B52]

Emergency descents can be done rapidly and you can't be scared to
call an emergency because something went wrong.

The item that needs the practice the most is putting on the O2
and getting it working. As is emergency depressurization in a a
chamber. It used to be expected that everyone would get that training
or obtain that training but its turned more into a minority than a majority.

Like aerobatic training, it's not yet regarded as essential training.
This accident may change the attitude towards chamber practice.

Most of the time when you hear of a problem with an instrument indication
its showing a form of fixation, justification or a projection when a human or
mechanical failure is the cause.

The classic example was a highly experienced Citation Pilot, who
called me out of bed one night to get a mechanic to meet him because
of funny fuel flow indications.

You guessed it, the mechanic shone is light in the tank and it was bone dry.

Later, I heard more accounts of running out of fuel in the same machine
each time, with a few hundred lb of fuel remaining at places where it
was well, one of the last places on earth, and lots of water around.

Yes, he was an accident going to happen and later it did with a great loss of life.

I'll omit identifying the pilot.

[oldtimer]

I lost pressurization once at FL200 in a Cheyenne, fortunatley with no passengers but what struck me was how cold it got. We were almost incapacitated by the cold as much as the sudden drop in pressure. Without passengers, we donned our masks and coats and stayed there a while, finally dropping down to a lower altitude when we knew we had enough fuel. But if there was one thing I brought back from the experience is that you should keep our coat handy. In the lower altitudes, below FL 300, if you get on oxygen right away, you have just bought yourself time.
During flight training in a Metro, I asked the flight crew to actually don the masks and it was a total gong show. Give control to the F/O, who sat there, flying the airplane (until he/she passed out) and the actual donning of the masks took forever. Well past the pass out time. I told the Captain to take the mask, put it on his face and just hold it there and fly the airplane with one hand while the right seater fiddled with the mask and once on and receiving oxygen, assume flying duties while the Captain fiddled with the mask, took his headset off, took his glasses off, adjusted the mask, put this glasses back on, put his headset back on, switched the mic to mask, selected speaker on the audio panel and established communications. It will take a while but with both pilots on oxygen, you have the time. Now, I do not know what you would do with pasengers because there will be panic. I just bet many would be on their cell phones calling home before even the thought of oxygen masks. It has been my experience with turboprops, except the newer King Air 200/250/300/350, that the oxygen masks are all a piece of crap. There is no way a person can get one on in the required 5 seconds. Especially if you wear glasses and have hear defender headsets.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I can get from FL280 to 15000 feet before most of you clowns can don a mask. And, I'll be declaring an emergency going through FL180, not waiting to declare before descending. You can't breath....nothing else matters......nothing!
Illya

[Jack Klumpus]

Don your mask first. Then aviate, navigate, communicate.

[Jack Klumpus]

I can get from FL280 to 15000 feet before most of you clowns can don a mask. And, I'll be declaring an emergency going through FL180, not waiting to declare before descending. You can't breath....nothing else matters......nothing!
Illya

Howbout if you have escape routes? read the charts, have a look at the winds, highest MORA/MOCA, decide which way you're turning, initiate the descent, program the 'box', make all the step altitudes (if you have to), and still be fine without the mask?

To give you a peep as to what we do, the maps are out, the routes are decided upon, and programmed in the 'box's secondary flight plan. Even with all of this prepared, first action is to don the mask.

[timel]

Oldtimer is making a good point.
We train once in a while to try out the masks, and if you get smoke and have to put some crappy mask on in a KA. Good luck doing it in 20 seconds, even with practice. It is crap to plug, fit over the headset, adapt the micro, your first breathing might be full of dust as well.



What could be tricky is a very slow depressurization.. And a crew not checking out.

[leftoftrack]

Cabin alt warning light. Not tricky at all.

This is what I've been preaching on here @#$! ATC if your life is in jeopardy do what you need to then tell them what you did and have them figure it out from there.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Don your mask first. Then aviate, navigate, communicate.

Much above FL280, I'm with you on the mask first. Problem is, as old timer points out, unless recently practiced, donning a mask can tend to be a gong show. From FL280 and below, I can get into breathable air, faster than the average bear can don a mask. Single pilot, like a TBM etc., wearing those little nose tubes (what are they called again?) so you just have to start the flow of O2 might be the ticket? Thoughts? Guess my biggest point is to start down NOW.
Illya

[skymarc]

The TBM as some quick donning mask that I can put on in 5 seconds. Push the nose down and you can get 6000 fpm at 266 kts to get down fast, then you talk to Atc.
Its a very sad accident as he recognized a problem but he didnt act fast enough and did not declared an emergency and waited for Atc for a clearance.
RIP Larry and Jane.

[Old fella]

You would think in his SIM training, emergency descent and memory items would have been emphasized along with “no delay” in pointing the aircraft towards the ground.

[jpilot77]

We can get over 10,000 feet decent rates in the PC-12 in an emergency decent, your almost in a vertical dive. It is quit impressive.

[B52]

FAR 61.31 Defines additional training for pressurised aeroplanes capable of flying at high
altitude (above 25,000 ft AMSL)

The TBM 700, whose weight is less than 12,500 lb, does not require type rating.
It comes under the category of single engine land aeroplanes. For each of these three
additional ratings mentioned above, for piloting TBM 700 no minimum duration is
required. They must be issued by an instructor holding the desired qualification.
Training programmes developed by the manufacturer may be used as basic training
by schools and users.

The fact that the FAA does not have strict requirements for experience does not mean
that the training for pilots holding an American licence is inadequate. In fact, most
American insurance companies bind their members to training conditions that go
beyond the minimum required by regulations. These conditions are however limited
to American insured parties.

Training for the issue of TBM 700 class rating has been carried out by SOCATA
instructors since January 1990. The manufacturer has recognised only one other
organisation dedicated to its clientele in the North America zone, based in Orlando,
called “SIMCOM”. The manufacturer included two training courses for pilots for each
delivery of a new aeroplane.
The pilots can choose between training on the manufacturer’s French site or on that
of SIMCOM.

The manufacturer raises trainees’ awareness of the following normal and emergency
procedures:

includes

Depressurisation in flight (simulated from FL280 upwards) – full procedure with
use of oxygen masks;



THE SYSTEMS
Pressurization and
Environmental System
The dual zone pressurization and air conditioning systems
utilize engine bleed air to pressurize, heat/cool, and
defog the cabin and cockpit windows. The pressurization
controller, conveniently located on the central panel
between the pilots, provides variable cabin altitude and an
automatic rate of change control. The system is capable of
maintaining a 9,350 ft cabin altitude at 31,000 ft and a very
confortable 6,400 ft cabin altitude at 25,000 ft. Sea level
cabin altitude can be maintained up to 14,430 ft. The cabin
temperature is automatically controlled from the cockpit
for the two zones or separately with a controller located
in the front and in the rear of the cabin. The engine-driven
compressor air conditioning system is fully automatic and
can quickly cool the aircraft on hot days as soon as the
engine is running.


Oxygen System
The emergency oxygen system is supplied by a 50.3
cubic foot composite external bottle that can sustain four
passengers and two crew members for one hour above
15,000 feet. If cabin pressurization is lost, oxygen will be
provided to the crew with two pressure-demand masks
and with four constant-flow masks for the passengers.
Passengers masks are automatically deployed in case
of sudden depressurization with an option for manual
deployment. The oxygen system was designed for safety
and easy servicing by maintenance personnel by placing
the oxygen bottle in the right carmen allowing access to
the bottle without the need to enter the cabin area.


The TBM 700C2 was also certified at 31,000 ft
thanks to the gaseous oxygen system.


Section 4 of the POH, Before Starting checklist, states that the oxygen supply is to be available for the planned flight and the ‘OXYGEN’ switch is to be in the "ON" position. Chapter 7.10, Emergency Oxygen System, states that the oxygen system will be used by crew and passengers when the cabin altitude is greater than 10,000 feet following a loss of pressurization or cabin air contamination. The emergency indicating and control panel located in the cockpit overhead panel includes a two-position ‘OXYGEN’ to permit the supply of oxygen to the front seat masks. The panel also contains a two-position ‘PASSENGERS OXYGEN’ to permit the supply of oxygen to the four passenger masks.


The TBM has both a aural and a annunciator warning system for loss of cabin pressure. In addition, the pressurization system in the TBM is automatic- the only manual reversion is an emergency dump switch.


Then there was the unexplained Oxygen bottle found in the OFF position on C-FBKK

Is there a connection between these two fatal accidents?

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 2o0170.pdf

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=149724

[xchox]

Sadly reminds me of the Cessna 421C several months ago:

[skymarc]

The TBM does require a type rating as its over 250 kts VMO (266).

[Hawkerflyer]

It was a TBM900. He was the first US delivery.

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/turbo ... ta-tbm-900

[B52]

It was a TBM900. He was the first US delivery.

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/turbo ... ta-tbm-900

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=145154


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/19/f- ... p=trending


Sources:
http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/04/gulf ... indicates/
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/17585126/pil ... -of-mexico
http://abcnews.go.com/US/unresponsive-p ... d=16172431
http://news.lalate.com/2012/04/19/dr-pe ... ast-guard/
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N48D ... /KASD/KSRQ
http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accide ... 1_48DL.txt

http://www.airport-data.com/images/airc ... 080407.jpg (photo)