AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

[hoptwoit]

Removed ? man this place is run by 2 year olds.

[ourkid2000]

Neverblue has got a pretty sweet gig by the sounds of it and that is something that is very difficult to obtain. I applaud him for making it happen, however, I think it's important for people coming out of school to understand that if you want something along the lines of what Neverblue has in aviation, that you'll have to be pretty flexible and it won't be easy. Don't think you can go to work at Westjet, Air Canada, Jazz, IMP, KFC, First Air, Canadian North, Encore, Air Georgian, Cascade, Pratt & Whitney, Avmax, etc etc, and make anywhere near 30 bucks an hour to start because you can't. You'll have to look elsewhere for that kind of money. It will take you 5-6 years at least at the places I mentioned and even then you may not get there depending on collective agreements, course availability, and ACA's.

Ultimately if, you plan on working at either the provincial government, federal government, airlines, or AMO's and actually physically repairing the airplanes, the absolute max you're going to make is 40 per hour usually combined with some pretty nasty shift work. That's the reality and it's a long haul to get to that number too. I've heard of a few people making over 80K per year but that took a significant amount of overtime. The kind of $$ that Neverblue makes is strictly found at the management or director levels and even then you're pushing it. Like I said, you'll have to be something very special to command the kind of money Neverblue does and if you can do it, then awesome......aviation is for you.

For everyone else, it just seems like the rest of Canada is passing you by.

[NeverBlue]

Don't think you can go to work at Westjet, Air Canada, Jazz, IMP, KFC, First Air, Canadian North, Encore, Air Georgian, Cascade, Pratt & Whitney, Avmax, etc etc, and make anywhere near 30 bucks an hour to start because you can't. You'll have to look elsewhere for that kind of money. 

Who in their right mind would think that coming out of school? Only those that don't listen that's who....and then complain at places like here.

Neverblue has got a pretty sweet gig by the sounds of it and that is something that is very difficult to obtain.

Don't patronize me kid...I know what you think of my gig. You don't even believe I have one.

...and you see there in lies the difference between us...you think "obtain" and I think "attain"
Change your way of thinking and maybe you'll get somewhere.

[ourkid2000]

Who in their right mind would think that coming out of school? Only those that don't listen that's who....and then complain at places like here.

I don't think it's unreasonable for our profession to be making near 30/hr to start. Not at all. Many trades start near this figure and many of these trades are no "better" than an AME.

Don't patronize me kid...I know what you think of my gig. You don't even believe I have one.

.

Absolutely disagree with you on this. We may not see eye to eye on many aspects of our business but I've never said that you're full of it. I think you may be confusing me with someone else!

[brownbear]

I do feel once licenced an AME should get 30 plus

I also know that one of the oddities is we max out really quickly on scales, it seems after 5 years licenced there isn't much more.

I made the best money of my career when I first got licenced and travelled around the world. Sure I went up in pay, but experience to pay ratio nothing compared to that. I felt great and thought it was going to keep up at this rate of increasing pay year after year.

Then you hit caps. I've seen AME's go without pay raises for 5 plus years on caps. You cannot live like that.

I am proud to be an AME, and will continue to be proud. I just might not make my living off it.

[NeverBlue]

Ourkid2000,
What are you basing your "better" than the others on??? Wages have never been better then the "others" coming out of school...not in 30 years anyways.
And just because one is licenced that doesn't mean S#@t. There's still a lot to learn about signing a maintenance release that just because you have a licence doesn't mean you know...and if you're not exercising your licence at your current job your not worth $30/hr. "just because" either.

You're not entitled to a wage...you're supposed to earn it...

[Troubleshot]

Ourkid2000,
What are you basing your "better" than the others on??? Wages have never been better then the "others" coming out of school...not in 30 years anyways.
And just because one is licenced that doesn't mean S#@t. There's still a lot to learn about signing a maintenance release that just because you have a licence doesn't mean you know...and if you're not exercising your licence at your current job your not worth $30/hr. "just because" either.

You're not entitled to a wage...you're supposed to earn it...

Wrong, wrong, wrong.....

wages have never been better?? are you for real?...if I have to explain to you how insanely stupid that statement is then there is no point in having any kind of discussion. I think you are simply too naive to put forth any kind reasonable argument regarding wages. Either you honestly just don't get it, or you just like the back and forth here. Cost of living is not measurement of wages getting better. If that is the case then minimum wage is a great living nowadays...

to your next stupid point....when an individual obtains an AME licence this person should be able to exercise the full privileges of that licence and therefore should also be entitled to a pay rate that reflects those privileges. The whole point of your apprenticeship is to "put in your dues", not to dangle another carrot over your head once you get your licence. Try telling a red seal tradesman that you are going to keep his rate low once he gets his ticket...not gonna happen. Anyone not exercising their licence at an AMO they are working at are being lead astray and should move on. And if an AMO doesn't trust a guy to exercise his licence, he should be fired. When I first got my licence, I received an ACA the same week. Week two I was in charge of changing a 737 engine...I think that is a pretty big sign off, the company gave me the stamp so why would they expect anything different? Not sure where you are going with "a lot to learn about signing a maintenance release"...like what exactly? I'm all ears...

to the next stupid statement...if you think wages should be on the "earn" system then you're more outta touch than I thought. This system would be so abused by employers that even you would be only earning $20/HR. I "earned" a good wage once TC printed my licence. The guy on my crew that has been there 5 years longer deserves more because that is way the working world works. Night in-night out we do the same job, with the same precision but he deserves more because of his experiences and his loyalty to the company.

Its like your blindfolded and just swinging away hoping to hit something, but keep swinging skippy!

[ourkid2000]

Wages have never been better then the "others" coming out of school...not in 30 years anyways

Tell me one other trade that hasn't seen a significant raise in say, 12-13 years? When I was a rampie with Air Canada back in 1999, we had just signed a new collective agreement and we were lumped into the same union as the AME's (I still have my old copy). I remember noticing that the AME's were making a decent wage at the time. This was actually one of the reasons that I got into the trade because at the time, it seemed like a good living. Now, if you look at their most recent collective agreement that was forced upon them my an arbitrator, you will see that they are making LESS than what they were in 1999. Yes, their hourly wage right now is LESS than it was 15 years ago. Not to mention the other perks that have been yanked such as reduced vacation, etc.

You hear anyone else saying that?

[NeverBlue]

Wages have never been better then the "others" coming out of school...not in 30 years anyways.

That is what I wrote...read it ...comprehend it.

AMT wages out of school have never lead the other trades...ever

if you think wages should be on the "earn" system then you're more outta touch than I thought.

...ya...I'm out of touch...

It's still the "obtain" vs "attain" thing

You don't get it either

[Troubleshot]

Of course I am not gonna "get it"...it is complete nonsense. Keep dancing in circles...

[Pat Richard]

You see when you make only $50K/Year in Calgary you will need a loan for everything(Car, House, Motorcycle, etc...) you most likely will not get approved, but you will need them.

Thanks for proving my point.

Nobody "Needs" a mortgage from buying a house if you make $50K

Nobody "Needs" a Car payment, Mortgage Payment, Motorcycle payment, Boat payment, etc...if you make $50K.


Take the bus and rent an apartment until you can afford it.


...that's simple Logic

Simple logic would also indicate not to take 18 months of your life and potentially better part of 20G to throw away on a trade that forces you to have to bus it to work after your studies are done. In the Calgary's and Vancouver's, you will never be able to get into a house on a encore type wage.
Maybe a nice campervan.

How logical

[brownbear]

18 months is one thing, it took me 5 years to get licenced and 11 exams.

Most college grads are over 2 years after college to get licenced only to be liven it up with 22-25 an hour. That aint right.

Air canada is strange model to compare within the industry. I had a friend working there around 98-99. Wages were good, but the guys took advantage of their situation and didn't work very hard. So over the years it comes back to bite them. Guys reading papers on shift etc, it had a very bad culture established. Not all at the fault of the AMEs, management allows this to occur and develop.

But the rest of the industry certainly varies. You have small operators who pay better than big operators and sometimes the reverse.

About half of AME's like unions and the other half doesn't. The guys making good money at small operators would have no use for a union. Ive never had use, but I do feel like it's US that need to set the pay scales in the industry and establish national pay rates.

Neverblue has a view that isn't shared by many AMEs that I have met over my 20 years. And I am not saying just on here, cause of course people come here to complain, I mean what I have observed, as an AME and a PRM.

[NeverBlue]

Guys reading papers on shift etc, it had a very bad culture established. Not all at the fault of the AMEs, management allows this to occur and develop.

...of course it's not their fault...they were told they'd be reading the papers all day when they were hired.

Unbelievable.

Neverblue has a view that isn't shared by many AMEs that I have met over my 20 years. 

Yep...every AME in Canada hates their job...can't afford a house...and lives in Vancouver or Calgary two of the most expensive places in Canada to live.

[Stumper]

Yep...every AME in Canada hates their job...can't afford a house...and lives in Vancouver or Calgary two of the most expensive places in Canada to live.

Pretty much.. The rest are in Sioux Lookout or Fort Assiniboine making $48,000 signing sh!? That shouldn't be flying. Lamenting over the pretty girl that chose not to bother move or wait.. If they hold on long enough they might one day have access to a bus too.. But no pension; that's reserved for real trades.

[azimuthaviation]

The rest are in Sioux Lookout or Fort Assiniboine making $48,000 signing sh!? That shouldn't be flying

Fort Assiniboine doesnt even have an airport.

[Stumper]

The rest are in Sioux Lookout or Fort Assiniboine making $48,000 signing sh!? That shouldn't be flying

Fort Assiniboine doesnt even have an airport.

Sorry Azimuthaviation, my bad; I'm not a Westerner. Feel free to substitute any of the other forts "wish I wasn't here" that have an active airport;)

I have nothing against aviation, I've made a modest living by it, and raised a family. But for the sake of the kids evaluating the return on their education money and time investment I think we need to provide an honest assessment of the returns that can be expected.

The only real currency in life is our time. We trade much of our limited life "time" in exchange for money. Kids deserve to know how much of their life "time" they will need to exchange for the glory of working on planes compared monetarily to other ventures that require similar education, skill and responsibility.

Not missing countless life memories with your kids, not feeling like a bag of sh!t for most of your life due to shift work, and having a far more robust financial future for the same education/effort/"time" lasts long after the Glory of fixing planes has slipped away..

[azimuthaviation]

I'm not arguing your point, I'll let the experts hash that out with you.

Just pretty random to pull Fort Assiniboine out of your hat. I didnt even know anyones even heard of the place?! If you do get tired of the AME thing tho I heard that if you clear crown land they will title it to you. (Its that far out in the middle of nowhere).

[Always_Learning]

So for the guys here that say they left aviation, how difficult was it for you? did you have to go back to school? how did you land that job you are working now? Ive been looking into jobs that are related to avionics but it seems everyone wants a red seal or to even get an apprenticeship requires you to go back to school and it seems none of the things i learned in aviation are transferable to other programs in the schools .

[all_ramped_up]

So for the guys here that say they left aviation, how difficult was it for you? did you have to go back to school? how did you land that job you are working now? Ive been looking into jobs that are related to avionics but it seems everyone wants a red seal or to even get an apprenticeship requires you to go back to school and it seems none of the things i learned in aviation are transferable to other programs in the schools .

Have you spoke to a School? At most post secondary institutions there's counselors for discussing transferable credits. Wouldn't hurt as I would imagine a lot from Avionics would work for Electronics Engineering Technology or something similar. At least you could probably get partial credit towards a program if you're serious about moving on.

[bhmve]

what would you guys say to 25/hr. Basic benefits, no pension. No OT paid out, only time in-lieu. There is field work avail. but that isnt guaranteed.

5 years experience. 2 type courses.

Personally, I am struggling to survive. I live ultra modestly. Havent been on vacation in over 7 years. No new cars. Can barely afford to buy tools because my paycheques just barely pay my bills and put food on the table.

So really it all comes down to this. As a professional, is it fair to struggle this much when you work so hard and have so much responsibility? I feel like there are a lot of AMEs who live really modest lives because they cant afford much. I know everyone I work with is struggling.

[NeverBlue]

, is it fair to struggle this much when you work so hard and have so much responsibility? 

...uh...what?

Is there something that you think is owed to you?
'Cause if you just keep waiting for it, it probably isn't going to come...
...you have to go out and get it.

That's your responsibility...

No OT paid out, only time in-lieu. 

...That's illegal BTW.

[Troubleshot]

For once I agree with NeverBlue. While wages are low in Aircraft Maintenance you'll need to grab shit by the horns and go get another job. If nothing in Aviation, take your skills to another trade. My buddy fixes electric forklifts for $31/HR on the east coast...you are getting hosed my man, grow a pair and quit that sweat shop.

[Meecka]

No OT paid out, only time in-lieu. 

...That's illegal BTW.

Unfortunately very common in the industry though. That was the only option for overtime at my last 2 jobs, and at one of them I was busy enough that I never got to use any of it.

[DonutHole]

It's 100% legal if both parties agree.

Every province has a process to modify o.t. Arrangements.

[conehead]

I've been visiting this forum for years now, and I think Meecka has had some of the crapiest employers around...