Unreported event, and hidden damage

[PilotDAR]

I was approached by a maintainer a few weeks back, while on other business at his hangar. He had a Cessna single with some chafing along the cowl and firewall edge which would require a repair, and he might need me to do an approval when the time came. Okay...

I was back there yesterday, and saw the plane with engine and mount off, and the firewall bare. Hmm, I guess he's working on it. As I got closer for a look, I saw that the firewall was terribly wrinkled above the nose wheel attachment. The damage continued to the tunnel behind the firewall, and the belly skim, both of which are wrinkled badly.

He told me that they just took the cowls off for a routine inspection, with no reason to suspect any damage, and got quite a surprise. I suppose the owner will have to call the insurance company for this, and the plane will be out of service for some time.

But worse, someone did this, and knew they did. They did not take any action to ensure an inspection was done, or to remove the aircraft from service, while any damage was determined. So other pilots will have flown this aircraft in this condition. It was unsafe. In those later pilot's defense, the damage would be difficult to detect during a normal walk around, unless they got on their back under the forward fuselage, and knew what they were looking for.

Shame on the pilot who did not report this. I can't imagine a competent pilot allowing a Cessna to contact the ground this way, but I guess it happened. But it is not reporting it, and allowing the aircraft to remain in service, which is the offense here. And, if this was an instructor with a student, shame X 100.....

The original wear repair will be an afterthought now...

In 27 years, I have lent my 150 only once, and only because I was using his 182RG at the time. Yesterday, I was reminded why I am so selfish with my planes!

[Nark]

I was doing a walk around with a student on a club 172, only to discover a q-tip propeller.

It turns out the previous student left the tow bar attached, started it, and flew back to the home field. Didn't tell anyone.

Awesome.

[Colonel Sanders]

I find it incredible, but pilots don't seem
to think it's a big deal, to damage an aircraft.

What PD is describing is very common with
C182's that pilot don't bother to trim nose up
on final. Then they smash the nosewheel on
in the flare, when the back elevator force
increases as they slow down.

Basic stick + rudder skills - trimming an
airplane - which are not very interesting,
compared to a glass panel.

[Shiny Side Up]

Its not even stick and rudder skills though, its just one's personal ethics. While I suppose one could be so bad that one might not realise they've inflicted grotesque damage on an airplane, its really hard to image that they did't know. I recall reading the one accident report where a rental pilot flew a poor Cessna through a set of power lines, then walked away without a word. Thing even was still trailing cable behind it. Next renter discovered the damage.

I watched one fellow back into his airplane with his car once. Got out, shrugged, sparked up and flew off. Huge rent in the cowl, spinner had a Wile E. Coyote look to it. Good to go.

[ogc]

I always found this one interesting

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/c ... d2007O2455

[CFR]

Similar,

http://tinyurl.com/kuepebx

I believe the student pilot was encouraged to find a different area of interest.

[xchox]

@ogc... WOW!

[Colonel Sanders]

http://tinyurl.com/ is your friend.

[grimey]

Its not even stick and rudder skills though, its just one's personal ethics.

Yea. Wrecking a plane due to stupidity is one thing, and maybe those people should find something else to do. Not reporting it, especially when it isn't your plane, could be considered criminal, and (IMO, IANAL) would result in a charge of criminal negligence causing death/bodily harm if an accident later occured in that aircraft.

[Colonel Sanders]

But as long as it's a "learning experience"
that makes it ok, right?

[grimey]

But as long as it's a "learning experience"
that makes it ok, right?

Yea, seems that way. Hopefully they learn to go screw something else up instead. In any case, I simply meant that there's a difference between fucking up in a way that will cause an insurance company to come after you, and doing it in a way that will cause an insurance company to come after you while you sit in jail.

[PilotDAR]

One of my clients operates a survey aircraft, which has been mysteriously banged on and not reported.

It was near written off, and repaired. Then, again tens of thousands in new damage found later, then shortly after is was repaired, the same thing again. I suggested that he hide a G meter in the aircraft, which pilots are unaware of - he did. He also did some more pilot training...

If you're flying survey, fly it with care, and report "incidents", you might be flying the plane that knows!

[pelmet]

Reminds me of a couple of stories. A high time airline guy that got into a porpoise while doing touch and goes on a C337. He dinged the prop. I do believe him when he says that he was surprised when someone else discovered some damage but it still must have been a bit of a wild ride. Good judgement says that you should check the affected area post flight if you have been rough on an aircraft. I do remember once checking the nosegear area after a firmer than desired landing with no damage found.

Many years ago at a flying club, a renter discovered during a walkaround damage on top of one of the wings on a Piper Arrow. A previous pilot had landed so hard that the gear strut went upward deforming the wing. Of course, the previous pilot denied having a hard landing. At best, the previous pilot did a poor walkaround or was lying about what had been done.

[PilotDAR]

Well they got that 172 repaired, and I saw it flying again yesterday. I guess the lesson was not really learned, or else pilots just don't care. It was being taxied toward the turnoff into the apron at un necessarily high speed, with the elevator limp, and the oleo completely compressed. Of course when it came to making the turn in, loads of brakes did the job.

It's probably the simple fact the the steering linkage was probably also rebuilt when the oleo was off that prevented lots of shimmy during this careless operation of the aircraft.

This piloting technique might be appropriate to a Dash 8 making the gate on time, but it is really hard on a 172....

[GRK]

No pilot worth his/her salt needs to treat any aircraft so poorly that they risk damage. Period. Even if you're late and trying to catch up… It's just wrong and shows p*ss poor judgement.
Fly Safe
GRK

[182-SS]

Way back in flight training I went out to do a walk around for a solo flight. To my Astonishment I found the prop tips to be both bent with multiple large gouges. A foreign student had just come back from a solo flight and dinged the prop with a nose landing and then went off the runway and hit the tall taxiway lights. How ATC didn't notice I don't know. It made for a few tense moments as I went back to the office to report it and they mistakenly thought I was just coming back not doing my walk around lol.

The previous post regarding 182 pilots wrinkling fire walls... I find it amazing that it happens but it does. My opinion on that is that they are piss poor pilots. Yes the nose wheel/fire wall connection on 182's is a "weakish" point however it is not so weak that even a hard landing would wrinkle the fire wall, it would have to be a serious nose down nearly prop dinging stall a few feet up, or a porpoising event.

Ive had a seriously hard landing in Kamloops due to some seriously strong winds, 25 gusting 40 Kt and I was a fairly fresh pilot. Such a strong cross wind I opted to land on 04, cross runway to main, was not maintained at the time, come in over power lines, and had to put it down. Scared sh*tless that I wrinkled the fire wall, had it inspected, all good. I cant even imagine how hard you'd have to hit to wrinkle it. Although having said that I'm sure its easier to do on soft field or nose down attitude.

[duCapo]

Unreported damage to an aircraft is grounds for immediate dismissal in my company. No excuses.

[niss]

I am extremely bothered by the fact that this thread is even necessary.

We all @#$! up. God knows I do. If you @#$! up bad enough, inspect the airplane and let someone know about it, especially if you are not the only one flying it.

Your ego is worth far less than someone else's life.

[pelmet]

I think from now on, I will try to make some sort of attempt to view as much of the firewall as possible on the walkaround. Sometimes it is not easy. I always try to give special attention to the bottom of wingtips, especially on low wings and taildraggers.

It can be easy to not give as much attention as is deserved to the bottom of the aircraft on the walkaround but I try to. Aside from having discovered missing inspection panels, I recently discovered a previously unknown significant dent on the bottom of the horizontal stab on a SportStar. This of course prevents you from getting the blame for it.

[pdw]

Owning up to it when it happens ....