Now concentrate on getting your PPL and do not question the methods they may use during the training.
Once you have the PPL go out and celebrate having survived the ordeal.
Then find an experienced commercial pilot with as much flying for a living as possible and have him /her fine tune your skills.
Oh yes!! can't wait to get this PPL, the process has been long and expensive. Plus since I started flying my days in the Office are so long and boring... Can't wait to be in this industry....
Cat Driver wrote:love2fly14 I have been teaching flying for over half a century and the best advice I can give you is try another instructor.
Asking for advice on how to land on an internet forum will only confuse you because you have no way of knowing which advice is valuable or which advice is coming from the village idiot.
Have not read through the whole thread yet...so my apologies if there is any duplication.
I think Cpt. . has it right. Get another instructor....to maybe tell you the same things in his/her way...which might be a different way than the last instructor.
To illustrate:
I remember as a freshly minted PPL renting a Grumman Cheetah from . in Nanaimo back in 1983. During the check out I was given some very good instruction. Incredibly I cannot even remember now what that advise was it has been so long ago. But with a grand total of 60 hours I finally learned how to land courtesy of Captain .. He removed any holes that I might of had during my training during my PPL...18,000 hours later I still enjoy what I do and find that I am very aware of my body angle and speed and flare and touch down point which I credit to my good friend Cat Driver.
Get another instructor... He might just present things in a way that you can relate to and then get it. That's what happened for me.
Cat Driver wrote:Good to see you are progressing and enjoying the learning experience.
When you get your license P.M. me and I will give you some new ideas on how to land.
It is all about the last fifty feet before touch down.
It is all about judgement of two things. (1) Your closing rate to the surface. (2) Judging your height from fifty feet to touch down accurately.
And to do that it is the picture your mind processes......it has to be accurate.
Here is a question for you to ponder.
If looking at the far end of the runway and the edges of the runway in your peripheral vision is how you get the correct picture what do you use when landing on a big grass field..or...landing on water...or landing on a snow covered field?
Hmm, I see your point !!!
Exactly.
Now consider flying a large aircraft onto a runway with restricted visual reference....blowing snow.... Let's say at night..... You will not see anywhere near the end of the runway.
As . says:
1) closing rate
2) accurately judging height.
When I was transitioning from the 172 to the tail dragger I couldn't get the landings where I wanted them.. it was so frustrating, and it seemed at the time that no amount of in plane was going to help.
So I went out for a smoke at the fence and there was this old lady practicing her three points in a cub, and they were beautiful. I watched the plane and paid attention to the movements, what was going on. Then about halfway through her session I sat down at the bench and visualized a ride along, eventually, I was visualizing myself flying.
My next flight out was 'perfect' the light had come on.
Visualizing the outside picture in that stress free environment 'stored' those visions and inputs and the very next flight it was almost muscle memory...
Visualization is a powerful tool. You can throw a lot at yourself in the mental simulator, it's almost like meditation, if you can convince yourself it's not too pussy and fully commit it can be intense, and super valuable as a learning aid.
Visualization is a powerful tool. You can throw a lot at yourself in the mental simulator, it's almost like meditation, if you can convince yourself it's not too pussy and fully commit it can be intense, and super valuable as a learning aid.
+1.
I vaguely recall some research that visualizing a motor skill lit up the same areas of the brain in a scan as actually using that skill.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
She sounds a lot like an elderly lady I knew who flew a Super Cub out of there. All she would ever do was circuits... and her landings were like poetry in motion. The Cub has been sold now, so I guess she finally hung up the spurs.
Here is someone who has learned how to judge closure rate and height.
Exactly.
Now consider flying a large aircraft onto a runway with restricted visual reference....blowing snow.... Let's say at night..... You will not see anywhere near the end of the runway.
Of all the exercises in flying I have found the last fifty feet above the surface to touch down is the poorest understood.....and looking back I believe it all started about twenty five or thirty years ago when some instructor decided looking at the far end of the runway was the best way to judge your distance from the surface....gradually it became gospel and accepted by the training industry.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Well a lot of people will be pissed off by this post, but, here is my not so humble opinion.
I cringe at reading all the nonsensical ideas such as, you need a cushion to see over the nose,
slow down, hold the nose up to the end of the runway, slow down etc.
"Trouble with landings", generally, means you don't know the basic fundamentals of flying and
your instructor, most probably, does not know how to fly, because he was never taught how to fly
in the incestuous training system of only hiring those who were trained by those they trained etc.
I've been handed those students and its a terrible thing to see how a large number of hours has
been wasted without ever, passing on the basics, because the instructors lacked the basics.
Find yourself a real instructor with real experience, whose students always pass their tests first time
and who has a consistent track record for first solo's in a low number of hours.
The same instructors are often booked solid for weeks ahead.
Preferably, do it in a tail wheel aircraft and or get to do some flying in a real tailwheel with an instructor
with real experience and not just the usual product of the incestuous training programs.
I've been handed those students and its a terrible thing to see how a large number of hours has
been wasted without ever, passing on the basics, because the instructors lacked the basics.
Why??
They were given instructor ratings weren't they?
Who gave them their ratings if they lacked the basics?
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
A pilot's licence and or instructor's rating c
can have little guarantee that the holder
can either fly or impart knowledgels
A pilot's licence and or instructor rating can
provide the holder delusions that they can fly or teach
and, pass on similar delusions to further generations of pilots
all of whom don't have what many people learn in their first few hours.
So why even bother with going through the process of getting a license if it is not a certificate to show that you are competent in the skills it covers?
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Avcanada is improving . This thread made it 4 pages before the inevitable blanket "all instructors are incompetent morons", no value added posts started.
Avcanada is improving . This thread made it 4 pages before the inevitable blanket "all instructors are incompetent morons", no value added posts started.
We did not say " ALL " instructors are morons, only some are.
I asked a logical question...how do the poor ones get instructor ratings.
Find yourself a real instructor with real experience, whose students always pass their tests first time
and who has a consistent track record for first solo's in a low number of hours.
The same instructors are often booked solid for weeks ahead.
Try and stay away from selective comprehension and your blood pressure will stay down.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
My point is teaching someone how to fly should require one to be of a higher quality than just passable.
I may be wrong about the quality of today's instructors but from having owned a flight school and had quite a few in my employ I was amazed at how poor many of them were.
If things have improved I don't see much evidence of it from what I see in aviation.
I think I understand your defense of the training industry and why you defend it.
We just have different expectations and our backgrounds are different, nothing wrong with that as everyone is free to think as they see fit.
For instance I feel the whole flight school system and pilot qualifications should be restructured and the instructors should have to be experienced in the commercial aviation sector of flying before they can start training for the instructor rating...not newly licensed pilots just finished as students them selves.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
For instance I feel the whole flight school system and pilot qualifications should be restructured and the instructors should have to be experienced in the commercial aviation sector of flying before they can start training for the instructor rating...not newly licensed pilots just finished as students them selves.
Absolutely, but we both know the chance of that happening is zero. I prefer to deal with what "is" rather than what "should be" the state of flight training. Making things better with the very imperfect system we have now is, I believe, possible and Avcanada is one place that can happen, but nobody wants to be gratuitously insulted.
You want to make flying instructing better ? Than how about sharing your extensive and hard won knowledge by explaining how instructors can do a particular manoever, any manoever, better.
You want to make flying instructing better ? Than how about sharing your extensive and hard won knowledge by explaining how instructors can do a particular manoever, any manoever, better.
There was a time when I used to do that, however as time passed I had my doubts as to the value of that method of passing on my thoughts on how to " XXX " when flying " XXX".
I have come to the conclusion that the best way to instruct is one on one in an airplane rather than on an internet site.
You have pointed out that some of the people needing further teaching is the already licensed flight instructors though...so we agree there.
Maybe the industry needs a " Flight Instructor Finishing School. "
"
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I'm very new and maybe my input is not valuable... But This forum has allot of value for me.
First I'm reaching out to pilots with Many hours under their belt, allot of experience etc.....
Their advice is very valuable.... Of course, we need to take it for what it is... Free etc.... But I see it the same way If I would be briefing with my instructor. Then their is the Practice.
I'm certain that I would not of been able to connect the dots if I did not ask for help... Every post made me think and the result was very good. Even my Instructor told me, maybe you were just having a bad day last weekend. Lol......
In my Opinion, even if you are a good pilot, does not make you a good teacher. Some guys just can't teach, explain or pin point the mistakes we make. But they are great at showing how it is done.
If you're having trouble with the flare and landing too hard, forget about spot landings for a bit and try the concept of hovering your main wheels over the runway as long as possible. When you go power IDLE into the flare, the aircraft is beginning to lose its lift and the onus is on you to control that Rate of descent until touchdown. Use the control column (in the flare) to provide the necessary lift to stay over the centreline as long as possible. This will teach you the necessary touchdown attitude as well as the concept of what a flare really is (slow flight in close proximity to the runway). Use this to help you understand how long a flare can be as it can help you gauge where to flare for spot landings.
Once you feel you've understood that part of the landing better, return to spot landings and move on to gustier conditions.
as well as the concept of what a flare really is (slow flight in close proximity to the runway).
We need to be on the same page with terminology when discussing this subject.
When I learned to fly the term " flare " was used to describe the change in attitude/angle of attack from the approach attitude to parallel with the runway....next came the touch down if doing a wheel landing.
If you were doing a three point landing there were three portions to the landing. (1) flare (2) hold off (3) touch down.
When did they change the meaning of the word " flare " and why?
try the concept of hovering your main wheels over the runway as long as possible.
Does this not leave you exposed to wind changes causing the airplane to drift sideways and change height above the runway as well as use up more runway?
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
B52 wrote:
"Trouble with landings", generally, means you don't know the basic fundamentals of flying and
your instructor, most probably, does not know how to fly, because he was never taught how to fly
in the incestuous training system of only hiring those who were trained by those they trained etc.
I've been handed those students and its a terrible thing to see how a large number of hours has
been wasted without ever, passing on the basics, because the instructors lacked the basics.
Little harsher than I might have put it but I think you have a point. I've done a little tail dragger flying and in just those few short hours, it totally revolutionized what I thought about rudder. Now I have my students do a slow rolling exercise back and forth with the nose on the horizon and keeping the ball centered. It might be a small thing to some but I've found in my limited experience that my students become more conscious about rudder use as a result (turns, climbs, slow flight etc).
Slow flight is not just an exercise for the flight test either. If you can get the feel of an aircraft at min safe speed then you can manage the aircraft in almost any phase or speed of flight. Think about where you are in the flare. You have flaps down, maybe a little power and transitioning through that same speed range. If you don't have a good feel of how the aircraft handles in slow flight then that could be part of the trouble in the flare. Just one more arm chair quarterback's opinion.
she definitely helped me along the way.
. This thread made it 4 pages before the inevitable blanket "all instructors are incompetent morons", no value added posts started. 
