Informal data on licenses and flying

[Shiny Side Up]

I guess I can say that your experience and mine have been substantially different.

I would only argue that the market that you're referring to can't be tapped. Ultimately in spite of all their other qualities, flying and aviation just doesn't pull on them that much. After all, there are people of much lesser means that climb over the same hurdles, and I would wager that time in the case of these guys is the most important factor, since they have all sorts of other things they'd rather do, and aviation loses on the toss.

That's even the case with some of the guys who are into aviation, I can think of a lot of gorgeous airplanes that spend a lot of time in the hangar.

Again, some bad customer service ain't going to deter people from something they're really interested in. That's been my long experience, since I deal with a lot of those cases. I'm no longer surprised by what people will put up with.

And for the record, for as long as I can recall, there's been about fifty-fifty with the good and bad instructors. I suspect its always been that way. Though I do have to say when I started I thought it was like you did, but I've had the chance to encounter some of the people I previously had some respect for later on, and lets say being older and wiser, any illusions one has had are quickly shattered.

[Tom H]

Shiny

I guess I can say that your experience and mine have been substantially different.

Seems so and could be because my experinece is spread across multiple market places.

I would only argue that the market that you're referring to can't be tapped. Ultimately in spite of all their other qualities, flying and aviation just doesn't pull on them that much.

Get your point but disagree...the market is being tapped in other market places and the pull is marketing...that generates the interest, the romance, the adventure and the desire.

Growing or regrowing (depending on your point of view) the recreational aviation market is not going to be easy and will take a ton of work from ALL those involved in it....but what is the alternative?

Wait for it to slowly die?

Tom H

[Shiny Side Up]

Seems so and could be because my experinece is spread across multiple market places.

I wouldn't make the assumption that mine's not. In particular I like to visit flight schools, and have sampled the wares across this country and even south of the border. That's both as customer and provider.

Growing or regrowing (depending on your point of view) the recreational aviation market is not going to be easy and will take a ton of work from ALL those involved in it....but what is the alternative?

Wait for it to slowly die?

No, but I believe it needs to be more targetted rather than casting a large net. What we need to do is when people are identified who are going to further the cause, that effort then is expended to bring them into the fold, rather than spend a ton of effort trying to convince people on the fence, or on the other side of it that they need to come over. Don't waste time on dabblers and tire kickers. I would wager that your friend ultimately only had a passing interest in flying - but had the luxury to spend money to taste test it, and supreme and continued effort would need to be expended to keep him "into " it. Run into lots of these guys who've got to various depths of aviation, then just dropped it.

For someone like myself, that's hard to imagine. I can't imagine not being involved in flying once I got the first taste.

[Tom H]

Seems so and could be because my experinece is spread across multiple market places.

I wouldn't make the assumption that mine's not. In particular I like to visit flight schools, and have sampled the wares across this country and even south of the border. That's both as customer and provider.

I was referring to other gendre' beyond aviation never assumed you were not very well versed both in your field and geography beyond your location.

Growing or regrowing (depending on your point of view) the recreational aviation market is not going to be easy and will take a ton of work from ALL those involved in it....but what is the alternative?

Wait for it to slowly die?

No, but I believe it needs to be more targetted rather than casting a large net. What we need to do is when people are identified who are going to further the cause, that effort then is expended to bring them into the fold, rather than spend a ton of effort trying to convince people on the fence, or on the other side of it that they need to come over. Don't waste time on dabblers and tire kickers. I would wager that your friend ultimately only had a passing interest in flying - but had the luxury to spend money to taste test it, and supreme and continued effort would need to be expended to keep him "into " it. Run into lots of these guys who've got to various depths of aviation, then just dropped it.

I think the approach is where we differ...
Marketing (not just conventional commercial styles) needs to be targeted to a demographic that gets to the right audience(s). When done well (lots of examples) it is very effective. But it needs to be proactive.

The approach you describe above is "passive' to me, while it works it is a long term philosophy that should be what is the norm in our sport/pass time.

For someone like myself, that's hard to imagine. I can't imagine not being involved in flying once I got the first taste.

Don't argue but...

Twice I have walked away from things I was very passionate, invested and involved in and both times it was attitudes/poor service that did it.

Like a large portion of the population...if I get treated like crap and don't have an option(s) I will do something else that I enjoy. I get the other side all too much I'm afraid.

Tom H

[Big Pistons Forever]

Don't waste time on dabblers and tire kickers. I would wager that your friend ultimately only had a passing interest in flying - but had the luxury to spend money to taste test it, and supreme and continued effort would need to be expended to keep him "into " it. Run into lots of these guys who've got to various depths of aviation, then just dropped it.

For someone like myself, that's hard to imagine. I can't imagine not being involved in flying once I got the first taste.

Like you I have been hooked on flying for literally as long as I can Remember. I had a subscription to flying magazine when I was 9.

The flying club I belong to is currently agonizing over the retention of new PPL's, but I am starting to think that there is a subset of the training market who just want the tick in the box. They want to be able to say "I am a pilot" and once they get the license they have achieved the aim and move on to the next challenge. This cohort seems to be exclusively populated by 45 - 60 year old men. Trying to retain these guys is an exercise in futility.

[Tom H]

Shiny

Didn't want to clutter the meat of my response with covering this.

I used my friend as an example of the problem but it would have been a bad wager...

I would wager that your friend ultimately only had a passing interest in flying - but had the luxury to spend money to taste test it, and supreme and continued effort would need to be expended to keep him "into " it. Run into lots of these guys who've got to various depths of aviation, then just dropped it.

He is now retired (yes I am envious) winters in California, has his licence as well as a V Tail Bonanza and beautiful Teenie Two, got his license in California.

When he is here he tours with his Custom Hot Rod and visits his kids. Still doesn't fly here.

Tom H

[Shiny Side Up]

I think the approach is where we differ...
Marketing (not just conventional commercial styles) needs to be targeted to a demographic that gets to the right audience(s). When done well (lots of examples) it is very effective. But it needs to be proactive.

The approach you describe above is "passive' to me, while it works it is a long term philosophy that should be what is the norm in our sport/pass time.

Actually what you say there is exactly what I'm after, so our opinion there when it comes to marketing probably doesn't differ that much. I am thinking though that since there is obviously a limited amount of effort that we can ask people to expend in this regard, we have to make the most of it.

The flying club I belong to is currently agonizing over the retention of new PPL's, but I am starting to think that there is a subset of the training market who just want the tick in the box. They want to be able to say "I am a pilot" and once they get the license they have achieved the aim and move on to the next challenge. This cohort seems to be exclusively populated by 45 - 60 year old men. Trying to retain these guys is an exercise in futility.

I'll admit these guys drive me nuts, the "professional student" type of people, whom we process a fair amount of. You're right, effort is wasted trying to retain these people - what they're passionate about is being a student - not flying. As an aside, though somewhat a boon for a flight school, they drive me crazy as an instructor since they often aren't focused on any goal, but rather the process, and often in a hobbyist mindset. My CDO (its like OCD but with the letters in the correct order!) means that incomplete projects like these are somewhat antagonizing.

Still doesn't fly here.

Not sure what to say, but your friend may be an outlier on the curve then and something else may be the ultimate reason beyond his apparent dislike of flying in Canada. Why would some bad instructors prevent him from flying here? That's just odd. Either way, I don't think he's illustrative of whom needs to be targeted in terms of GA marketing in this country. Reminds me of someone else who used to post here, just despised aviation in Canada in spite of all the good stuff it seemed to bring him. Flying was always better somewhere else, I don't think it was possible to bring him around.