May 1 startup day Air Georgian

[ourkid2000]

I've worked in unions my whole career in aviation......I've also worked at places that didn't have them. Overall, I really don't give a crap if I work for a company that has them or not and I think most people on here would agree.

Going the way Gino suggests sounds awesome "in theory" and I agree with most of his points but the problem is that, in many cases in aviation, the companies without unions who were once great to work for start abusing employees and taking advantage of them. The next thing you know, employees fight back and the union subsequently appears. Usually, the companies deserve what they get.

[dukepoint]

DB

Keep your seniority system. Carve it deeper into the millstone around everyone's neck. But...

If you put me on that seniority list as a junior F/O, then you have to pay me 1st year B777 Captain pay which would be commensurate with my qualifications and experience. How the union and the company choose to utilize the package I have on offer is up to them.

If that doesn't work for you, I can tell you $40,000 as a junior F/O doesn't work for me. It did about 35 years ago when I had SFA to offer but like the times, things have changed.
It was mentioned earlier in this discussion, that "slide into the gutter." Well, if you choose to ignore the individual's qualifications and experience you only grease the slide. Therefore the finger points to ACPA, doesn't it?

Good luck to you and your airline. I'm sure experience or the lack thereof will continue to be rendered irrelevant either way by virtue of yours and others stand on seniority and strict adherence to SOP as a guarantee of a safe and efficient operation. Because, for some, some foolishly believe SOP is the be all and the end all.

What a fool believes...

Gino Under

You sound a bit sour. If you're doing so well, with all that great experience, why the hard feelings?

If you're really an experienced pilot though, which I now very seriously doubt, you should have a little more regard for SOP's. No Airline Transport rated pilot who really knew what they were talking about would trash-talk Standard Operating Procedures, ever. Bet you don't even need a checklist, do you smart guy?

DP.

[Gino Under]

dukepoint

You're such a gentleman.

First of all, you have no idea what my qualifications and experience are and you're not about to read my CV any time soon nor is it relevant.

If you have the experience you imply, then you appreciate as do I, the simple fact that under normal ops, SOPs are usually a great fit. Work great, last a long time.

However, having spent the majority of my, so-called career, in flight safety and pilot training, I can assure you I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about. But, don't take my word for it. Do some research for yourself. You may discover new things. Such as the implementation of ACRM and TEM.
In the research I've seen (through colleagues at NASA Ames, ESA, NLR, etc.) rare is the SOP that incorporates these considerations. Lip service is paid to CRM and TEM. BUT, rare is it that you will actually see a crew deviate or suspend SOPs during an abnormal situation to deal with the ACRM and TEM aspects. Perhaps deviate or suspend SOP is a better way to put it.

Round peg in a round hole. You're suggesting a round peg fits into any shape.
Sorry. But, you'd be wrong in that assumption. Evidence based training has shown us that. SOPs only fit where they fit. For the most part, that's normal ops. They don't cover ALL contingencies. Most SOPs lead off by pointing this out to crews.

There is no mandatory CRMI evaluation of crews in Canada at present. When it is, I think you'll find you've been under a false impression about SOPs or at least a very limited appreciation of what SOPs are all about.
I would never condone the arrogant deviation from SOP such as spouting off a checklist from memory. Knowing when to suspend SOP and implement CRM, evaluate TEM, make decisions, then re-activate SOP, is a skill rarely spelled out in many of the SOPs I've read through.

I suggest a review of the Sioux City United DC-10 accident from back in the 80s. That was when the approach to SOPs and how they're applied, changed. Any pilot who's been around since then, would know that and appreciate the difference. Deviations from SOP can not only be found in this example but were necessary for survival. (Deviations of SOP, not the abandonment of them)

I don't advocated ignoring SOP. Most are written in the blood of those who have gone before. But, I do advocate SOP does not apply at all times in all situations. That's where experience and knowledge come into it and knowing the appropriate course of action.

As for the bitterness, I got over it the day I understood and accepted the fact that I'm worth a specific dollar. Unfortunately, there isn't an operator in Canada I would work for because, not only would I be expected to sit bottom of the seniority list, the compensation I'd receive is a joke and I have a family to feed with bills to pay. I don't need 'stripes' on my sleeve and a heroes stride through any airport passenger terminal to pacify me for that lack of reasonable compensation.

The good news is, I'm this close to retirement. A time when I can lament my poor career choice.

BTW, I get what you're saying on the previous page and I have to admit I can agree with much of it, but not all.
I've made my decision which is why I am not employed as an airline pilot these days. The longer I stay away the less likely it is that anyone would ever hire me so our arguments are nothing more than that.
In the end, I don't give a...
In my mind this is what I'm worth and not a penny less. My first airline job in 1986 on a big jet was $35,000 a year. Today? 40,000. Are you sh*ttin me?
My 86 Accord was 11,000. My 2006 Accord was 31,000. So, who's keeping pace?

Cheers,
Gino Under

ourkid2000

I live in my fantasyland over here because I don't like the Canadian airlines fantasyland over there.
Great post. Totally agree.

[Canoehead]

So how was ZX's OTP in June and July? DHC-1 Jockey, got access to anymore of those charts?

[Camsteri]

I truly pray from the bottom of my heat that Georgian fails epically with this RJ experiment, and that all the scab pilots that CHOOSE to work there for bottom feeder wages are taking down along with them.

I'm surprised to read something like this in this website. I've been reading this forum for a few minutes and all I have to say is that this website is full of unexperienced, frustrated and unemployed people. Who are you to call other pilots "scab pilots"? Are you one of those super experienced pilots that think they are always right? Who are you to judge people's decision? Do you have family or kids? if you need a job urgently, what are you going to do to pay the bills and bring food to your kids?

Hopefully not everybody thinks the way you do. Perfect job does not exist, you can always find something to complain about. kingtwo, be different, make a difference, change your attitude.

[timel]

Camsteri, GGN wages for left seats are one of the lowest on Canadian market.

Usually you leave a job for a better one.
If you have the experience for taking a left seat, and you get stuck with a two years training bound, you better think twice.
Maybe wait a little and find better, before making such a low wage choice, short term wise it should not be hard to catch up on the lost money.

[Camsteri]

Camsteri, GGN wages for left seats are one of the lowest on Canadian market.

Usually you leave a job for a better one.
If you have the experience for taking a left seat, and you get stuck with a two years training bound, you better think twice.
Maybe wait a little and find better, before making such a low wage choice, short term wise it should not be hard to catch up on the lost money.

Hey, I totally understand what you are saying. Georgian's bond is for one year not two. My point is that writing something like this guy did here, makes you think about what kind of people we are dealing with in this website. I believe it is disrespectful to others.

[flyer 1492]

Just looked at GGN 7329 YYZ-MIL, out of the last 13 days no flights left on time and only 3 left within 15 minutes of scheduled departure time.

Flyer

[Pratt X 3]

Just looked at GGN 7329 YYZ-MIL, out of the last 13 days no flights left on time and only 3 left within 15 minutes of scheduled departure time.

Flyer

http://flightaware.com/about/faq#airline1

Why do the departure and arrival times on a scheduled airline differ from the information on the airline's web site?

Airlines generally display the times that the aircraft departs and arrives from a gate. FlightAware presents the time that the aircraft departed and arrived, also known as the "wheels up" and "wheels down" times. At large airports or in various circumstances, there can be a significant difference in these times due to delays on the ground.

What about JZA 7987? Or how about SKV 7407? Probably similar reasons why they were "behind" sched.

[MCB]

If you take a look at the Air Canada website, the last three nights 7329 departed 10, 10, and 18 minutes late.

[JoeyBarton]

Just looked at GGN 7329 YYZ-MIL, out of the last 13 days no flights left on time and only 3 left within 15 minutes of scheduled departure time.

Flyer

I have a great suggestion for you. Why don't you stick to the facts and stats and bash Porter instead eh?

http://flightstats.com/company/media/on ... e-reports/

[mbav8r]

Joey, you should realize those numbers include all the 1900 flights and this thread is about the GGN RJ ops specifically.

[tdp19]

Not to mention, they have no ACAR's on GGN machines (from what ive heard) so there ontime off the gate times are a joke. I always get a chuckle listening on YYZ Stoc at there time off the gate.... On time departure yet there door is still open 5-10 mins past sched.

[rudder]

Not to mention, they have no ACAR's on GGN machines (from what ive heard) so there ontime off the gate times are a joke. I always get a chuckle listening on YYZ Stoc at there time off the gate.... On time departure yet there door is still open 5-10 mins past sched.

Go to the GTAA departures page. That reflects actual pushback time as observed by the airport authority. Compare that to the aircanada.com number.

If what you are saying is accurate that is fraud (under the CPA) and a violation of the COM which is a legal TC document (company definition of FLIGHT TIME).

It is my understanding that AC has started to see the warts in some of their new Express partners. Yes, Jazz is more expensive. But there is a big difference between a Mercedes and a Kia. AC has choices to make that will affect product quality at the Express level for years to come.

The combination of Rouge and multiple carriers operating under the Express banner is certainly affecting the public perception of the AC brand.

There is no such confusion at WJ. People know exactly what they are getting when they purchase a WJ ticket.

[Inverted2]

I've personally seen a GGN flight push back late and later checked and it was showing on time. Never mind that it landed 15 minutes late at destination because it actually left 10-15 minutes late. Easy to fudge the times when you don't have ACARS.

[Jack Klumpus]

Even with ACARS, you can fudge the numbers.

Each airplane has it's tricks, and leave it to pilots to learn them.

Personally I don't care to fudge the numbers. As a company, they need to know the reality so they can improve and strengthen their weakness.

[Fanblade]

Looks like R1 is getting 12 crj700's.


http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1431176 ... a-cityline

[aerie]

Looks like R1 is getting 12 crj700's.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1431176 ... a-cityline

If you read the press release this isn't R1 Airlines. It's Regional One, a subsidiary of Exchange Income Corporation with HQ in Miami, Florida.

[Dibbley]

EIC is a Canadian corporation. I think that Fanblade is correct.

[leftoftrack]

Can somebody PM me the name of the pilot who punched the rampie

[leftoftrack]

Double post

[flyer 1492]

Please do not post names on this forum.

[Fanblade]

Looks like R1 is getting 12 crj700's.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1431176 ... a-cityline

If you read the press release this isn't R1 Airlines. It's Regional One, a subsidiary of Exchange Income Corporation with HQ in Miami, Florida.

Do a search on Regional 1 renaming itself R1.

They are just emulating eagle to envoy.

Just trying to evade detection. Securities laws force an element of disclosure.

[vref]

Hmmm...

Regional One is a wholly owned subsidiary of Exchange Income Corporation. http://www.regionalone.com/company.html
R1 is a subsidiary of the Avmax Group Inc http://r1airlines.ca/about-r1-internati ... -aviation/

Are you sure?

[aerie]

Just trying to evade detection. Securities laws force an element of disclosure.

You're right, they did rebrand to "R1 Airlines." Those two words are different than "Regional One". Different names, different websites, different HQs, different contact information, different parent companies and different services.

People trying to "evade detection" normally don't put press releases out.