Albatross BE20 FO

[Illya Kuryakin]

These guys are looking for a PPC'd FO. Too cheap to train somebody, so steal one from somebody else. Here's why we have bonds kids! Because of companies like this. It's an entry level pilot job. Get your own entry level pilots!
Illya

[PointyEngine]

So cheap they pay an additional $10k per year compared to the guys down the road, with better benefits. That's my definition of cheap as well...

[BverLuver]

Pointy engine,

Look at the bigger picture! Ask yourself "why can they pay this higher wage? Because they didn't foot the $20k training costs. And for that, the f/o makes an extra 11k or so. So who's benefitting here, and who's getting screwed?

BL


http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=99900

[PointyEngine]

20k is a grossly inflated number for training on the B200, considering two people could go to sim for an initial B200 in the states for 16k. Also that additional 11k is over half of what an F.O would earn with some companies in YYC.

As far as I know, no one here knows the situation as to why they want a PPC'd B200 F.O? Client requirements, time restraints, etc - who knows? What they are offering is to fly some decent machines, with a company who from what I hear are great to work for and get paid better than pretty much any other B200 driver in AB. If anyone has some first hand experience about these guys that'd be great as well.

[BverLuver]

PointyEngine,

Obviously you don't have much experience in this industry.

BL

[Diadem]

While the pay is good and Albatros seems to be a good company, every ad they post requires a current PPC on type. If it were a short-notice contract or something I could understand that they would want someone trained and ready to go, but they always refuse to even look at resumes of anyone who isn't current on type. If they only ever take pilots from other companies to fly the same equipment, I call that poaching.

[PointyEngine]

If the candidate for this job ends up staying there for more than 12 months, earning an additional 11k a year to live in Calgary, all the power to them. I'm not sure what captains get paid, but I bet it's better than comparable positions with other companies in AB.
It's a nice contrast to many other operators here, including a certain 705 operator who pay chickens feed with the promise of wide bodies and early captain upgrades for the poor the suckers who want a kick start into the airlines.

P.S BL - I've got a little bit of experience. I've seen guys walk out on great companies with no bond to be paid less to potentially get a sooner upgrade, and also dealt with potentially the worst aviation company in Western Canada where people couldn't afford to pay the bond to leave, while living in their parents basement... If people are going to leave their current position to earn more money, not the worst move they could make. It's when they leave their current position to work more, get paid less but fly a slightly bigger machine I shake my head...

[esp803]

Position:King Air Captains
Company Name:Wabusk Air
Contact Name: Chief Pilot
Street Address:
City:Moosonee
Province/Territory or State:Ontario
Country: Canada
Web Address:WabuskAir.com
Email Address:cp@wabuskair.com
Phone Number:
Send Resume & Cover Letter Via: e-mail
Aircraft Types:BE100
Starting wage: $54,000.00 (housing included) - negotiable.

Job Description:Captains (2)
BE-10 Captain Qualifications:
- 2000 hrs TT
- 500 hrs MPIC
- 100 hrs on type
- ATPL preferred.
- Applicants with current PPC or time on type will be given preference



Salary:$54,000.00

9K more for the left seat, and preference to people with a current PPC.... Is this better or worse in everyones opinion.

E

[Diadem]

That's preference, not a requirement. Do you think it's okay for a kid who got his or her PPC last week at NCA or Sunwest to look at that salary and go "Yeah, I could really use that extra 10k", and walk away from the company that just gave him or her the training needed to be eligible for that position in the first place? This is why we have bonds.

[esp803]

What if little Timmy goes to the boss of NCA or Sunwest and says "Hey, I just got a job offer for 11k more per year, flying the same machine in the same town, I'd like an 11k raise or I'm leaving"

E

[BverLuver]

ESP803,

If the wage was acceptable to him last week, it should be this week after the company spent the money to train him, or pay them back for their costs. It's simple really. You want respect, give respect.

BL

[esp803]

BL, well said re:respect, and I couldn't agre more. However, 11k is not a small raise when you are going from 34 to 45.

[BverLuver]

esp803,

Neither is $20k a small hit to take on any bottom line.

BL

[esp803]

There is no way 5 hours and a ride in a king air is 20k.

[Illya Kuryakin]

As far as I know, no one here knows the situation as to why they want a PPC'd B200 F.O? Client requirements, time restraints, etc - who knows?ll.

Of course, they could just be a maggot company? Get the guys "down the road" to take the training costs hit, and scavenge the pickings at other's expense? Total slime balls! There is NO reason to "require" a PPC.
These guys are the reason pilots are screwing companies......it's not the pilot's fault if they take a huge raise in pay. Pond scum.
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

There is no way 5 hours and a ride in a king air is 20k.

You can buy a 737 type rating for 20K USD, if you shop around. A far better investment.
Illya

[cdnpilot77]

There is no way 5 hours and a ride in a king air is 20k.

Who is doing rides in a Be20 in 5hrs?

[Rowdy]

There is no way 5 hours and a ride in a king air is 20k.

Who is doing rides in a Be20 in 5hrs?

in the right seat? Lots. Mine was right to the TC reqs and nothing more. Both on the 100 and 200. Thats why there is line indoc….

[PointyEngine]

And it's 5.0 hours Flight time, airtime will be closer to 4 hours, probably written off as a training cost at full charter rate...

[Illya Kuryakin]

There is no way 5 hours and a ride in a king air is 20k.

Who is doing rides in a Be20 in 5hrs?

SounDS about right for an initial, for a lower time guy, at about 1500$ an hour. Wee bit short of 20K!
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

And it's 5.0 hours Flight time, airtime will be closer to 4 hours, probably written off as a training cost at full charter rate...

To be milked out of the new hire, should he decide to exercise his rights to move to another company, in what is, in most other ways, a free country.
Nice industry.
Illya

[Roar]

Who is doing rides in a Be20 in 5hrs?[/quote]

I know for a fact Borek was. I did one 5 hr flight YYC-YQL-YQF-Drumheller-YYC in the morning, ride In the afternoon.

[PointyEngine]

There is also a company in YYC who have been eluded to several times, who will bond to the end of the earth and carry out as much of the training as possible while ferrying machines between airports on company service (positioning, maint, etc). Saves them a wad of cash, but little Jimmy still has a full sized bond left after some half arsed training. There are certainly some sketchy players on both sides of the field.

[Flypilot]

There is no way 5 hours and a ride in a king air is 20k.

5 hours in a B200 would be $8500-$9000.

[cmadude]

The reason that we need PPc types is for two reasons.

1. For contrail requirement
2. To compliment the young hour captains.

We don't and won't hire pilots on merit or right of entilement that some of you think you deserve. We hire mostly on personality and integrity.

The king air is our entry job position, not work the ramp or washing cars.

Examples in past year. FO with PPc hired last year. Currently has 800 hrs. Did check ride in left seat and now with qualified captains rotating on both seats. Be awhile before full captain for insurance reasons.

Another FO king air hired and through recommendation of good attitude put on right seat jet CJ4. After one year now co-captain on jet. He is about 1200 hrs. Be awhile before full captain for insurance reasons.

About one month ago. Hired FBO ground handler onto king air. First flight job. Hired him due to attitude and work ethnic. We do in house training due to Garmon avionics and unable to use FSI or CAE for training. This pilot doing very well.

We operate 604, 703, and 704. The commercial side is 5 to 10% of the flying we do. The rest is owners and families which requires a certain experience level, common sense and professional attitude so that the owners that we fly for feel comfortable and safe.

We cannot hire non experience pilots for aircraft like the Challenger that is coming online that is not easy aircraft to fly

We are continuing to grow and grow rapidly.

We advertise the ppc current pilot first. Certainly doesn't mean we hire that person over a new pilot type. It's all about attitude and how you present yourself.

Certainly won't hire the disgruntled, angry, whiney or premodonna types since they are cancerous to any operation.