Log Book

[ThisGuy]

Okay was talking to a couple pilot's today and they were making jokes about there hours and how you record them yourself
and how they may or may not cheat. They discussed rounding up and such.
My question is can someone give me a quick run down on what log book I should purchase and how recording hours works. ( legit )
I know I can google it or wait until my instructor shows me but I figure learning about that process before hand cant hurt.

Thank you everyone for your responses lol I am sure I sound like the typical new guy but I can assure you I just want to learn
from the ground up, inside and out and I love to ask questions.

[pianokeys]

The flight school should have a copy of ol' blackie, which can be found on hammondaviation.com , that you can buy there.

As for cheating the log book? You're only cheating yourself if you do that stuff. And then you'll cheat yourself right out of the industry if TC finds out. Hard to cheat too as a student doing dual too because it ends up not jiving with your PTR. You can probably get away with cheating time on your solo, but that would be dumb since you'd be paying for the "hours" you claim, so you might as well just fly them.

You log the Hobbs time on the airplane. If you do 0.8 with an instructor, you fill out the columns associated and you would put 0.8 under the dual column. If you soloed for 0.7, you'd put 0.7 under solo. It will all be explained to you shortly.

[ThisGuy]

Thank you and of I don't plan to cheat hah actually wanted to make sure I don't.

[CFR]

Be cautious about Hobbs time. You can't sit idling on the ground for an hour and count it as PIC. As noted your instructor will give you some guidance and as you progress you'll figure things out for yourself. I know when you are starting out gathering 0.1's seems important. As you get into the hundreds (maybe 1000's) of hours 0.1's are less important and indeed you will find, to your shock, that some folks (GASP!!!) don't keep a log book! I have my paper book, but I keep my records (journey log and pilots log) on computer and occasionally (that reminds me I should do it soon) update my paper pilots log.

How you log stuff is personal. When I am doing an aerobatic flight, I have a separate column for that time and don't log to and from the practice area.

I get my annual done at a field that is less than .1 from my home field. After we do the run up and leak checks, etc I could log .3 for flight of less than .1 I just stick the airtime in the book and call it even. What ever you think is fair will work in the end.

[ThisGuy]

so essentially its somewhat like the honour system. I know I am getting ahead of myself here lol just love having some background knowledge so I grasp things quicker when taught. I know my log books from when I was driving truck were audited from time to time.

[AirFrame]

My aircraft has a Tach meter, not a Hobbs. It only records time when the engine is above a certain RPM, the idea being to record just the air time, not total flight time including ground handling. I have to add my own ground handling allowance (0.1-0.3 per flight, typically) to get the total flight time that goes in my personal log.

You can't sit idling on the ground for an hour and count it as PIC.

While you shouldn't do this, there's no reason you couldn't. Schools usually write down the hobbs start and stop on each flight so an audit would find consistency.

When I did my flight test, I found out after I did the paperwork on landing that my total time was only 44.9 hours. If I had done the math up front to see what I needed to reach 45, I would have let it idle on the ground the extra 6 minutes needed to get myself to exactly 45. Instead, I had to go for another flight (in the end I did 5 hours of aerobatics before writing my written exam and getting the PPL, but I was satisfied that I had "completed" the PPL in the 45 hours).

[CFR]

My aircraft has a Tach meter, not a Hobbs. It only records time when the engine is above a certain RPM, the idea being to record just the air time, not total flight time including ground handling. I have to add my own ground handling allowance (0.1-0.3 per flight, typically) to get the total flight time that goes in my personal log.

You can't sit idling on the ground for an hour and count it as PIC.

While you shouldn't do this, there's no reason you couldn't. Schools usually write down the hobbs start and stop on each flight so an audit would find consistency.

When I did my flight test, I found out after I did the paperwork on landing that my total time was only 44.9 hours. If I had done the math up front to see what I needed to reach 45, I would have let it idle on the ground the extra 6 minutes needed to get myself to exactly 45. Instead, I had to go for another flight (in the end I did 5 hours of aerobatics before writing my written exam and getting the PPL, but I was satisfied that I had "completed" the PPL in the 45 hours).

The likelihood of having your log book audited to the 10th of an hour is approaching zero. When you submit your logbook in support of a rating or license the folks at TC are looking for obvious padding. To do a detailed audit they would have to pull the flight records and/or journey logs for the aircraft you have claimed to have flown and do a flight by flight comparison. Not likely. But if they do I am told they look at the actual air time and check for big differences in that and flight time. If airtime is 1.0 and Hobbs (what you have recorded as PIC) is 1.5 you may have some splainin to do. I believe there was a posting a while back in another discussion on log books, that they will accept .2 or .3 over air time, but not much more.

While schools do record Hobbs start and stop (they bill you by that number) the journey log records air time.

All in all it should be a moot point. As noted further up, if you're cheating, your cheating yourself.

[pianokeys]

Be cautious about Hobbs time. You can't sit idling on the ground for an hour and count it as PIC.

I don't think there is an argument out there that would validate doing something like this is OK ahaha.

But I would argue that if you were flying, doing things like the run up and taxi should count towards time. I mean, you are in control the airplane, you are taxiing and preparing it for flight which is, controlling the airplane. There is a fine line between sitting and purposely soaking up time or ground delays and time that actually counts. I measure my hours in time that I consider actually counts/hours where you're controlling the plane. If I was sitting in a ground delay for .1 or .2, I wouldn't count that if I put 1.4 on the Hobbs.

Same kind of principle you have about logging aerobatic time. I agree with that, I wouldn't log flying to the area as aerobatic time.

However, its not in the air, and you're not flying it on the ground. Ambiguous flexibility.

[AirFrame]

But I would argue that if you were flying, doing things like the run up and taxi should count towards time. I mean, you are in control the airplane, you are taxiing and preparing it for flight which is, controlling the airplane. There is a fine line between sitting and purposely soaking up time or ground delays and time that actually counts. I measure my hours in time that I consider actually counts/hours where you're controlling the plane. If I was sitting in a ground delay for .1 or .2, I wouldn't count that if I put 1.4 on the Hobbs.

That's why there's both Air Time and Flight Time. I always thought it was odd that we logged Flight Time in our personal logs, but total Air Time in the aircraft log. It's always felt like I was "cheating" by .2 on every flight when I was learning to fly, but I was told we log .2 for ground time. In hindsight, I suspect that was more for the school's benefit... If ground time was less, we log less air time, which means maintenance happens less often... But the student still gets the same flight time... Hmm... Never thought about that before.

[human garbage]

Be cautious about Hobbs time. You can't sit idling on the ground for an hour and count it as PIC.

Depends on the circumstances. If you are referring to just starting it up and sitting there, no argument that you can't really log it. However once you start rolling then it does count. Once the aircraft moves, it has to be in care and control of someone until it shuts down. That to me qualifies as flight time. I've logged many hours of flight time waiting in a lineup to depart... When the big guys are lined up down D at YVR, getting out of the South side can take a while.

[ThisGuy]

Interesting how everyone kind of has a different outlook on it. There must be a set guideline on how it's supposed to be logged correctly.

[Grey_Wolf]

CAR 101.01

“flight time” means the time from the moment an aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight

“air time” means, with respect to keeping technical records, the time from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface until it comes into contact with the surface at the next point of landing

CAR 401.08

Personal Logs

401.08
(1) Every applicant for, and every holder of, a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall maintain a personal log in accordance with subsection (2) and with the personnel licensing standards for the documentation of:

(a) experience acquired in respect of the issuance of the flight crew permit, licence or rating;
(b) recency.

(2) A personal log that is maintained for the purposes referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) shall contain the holder’s name and the following information in respect of each flight:
(a) the date of the flight;
(b) the type of aircraft and its registration mark;
(c) the flight crew position in which the holder acted;
(d) the flight conditions with respect to day, night, VFR and IFR;
(e) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane or helicopter, the place of departure and the place of arrival;
(f) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane, all of the intermediate take-offs and landings;
(g) the flight time;
(h) in the case of a flight in a glider, the method of launch used for the flight; and
(i) in the case of a flight in a balloon, the method of inflation used for the flight.

(3) No person shall make an entry in a personal log unless the person
(a) is the holder of the log; or
(b) has been authorized to make the entry by the holder of the log.

[Grey_Wolf]

As for recording time in decimal format

minutes = decimal hours
00 to 02 = .0
03 to 08 = .1
09 to 14 = .2
15 to 20 = .3
21 to 26 = .4
27 to 32 = .5
33 to 38 = .6
39 to 44 = .7
45 to 50 = .8
51 to 56 = .9
57 to 60 = 1.0

[1000 HP]

I still use the paper ones. They are 3 years behind but I have not been flying too much so it won't take long to fix that.

If you are planning to fly commercially, I'd get a big one. I have 5 books. The last 2 were the big ones which last a long time. Unlike the electronic books you can't erase them. You can lose them though or have an ex wife burn them. (I came close)

[AirFrame]

Interesting how everyone kind of has a different outlook on it. There must be a set guideline on how it's supposed to be logged correctly.

There is.

When you start taxiing to when you stop taxiing is Flight Time.
When your wheels leave the ground to when they arrive back on the ground is Air Time.

Record all four times on your kneeboard and calculate them to the minute and keep perfect records.

Or do what a lot of people do, which is just record either Hobbs (for Flight) or Tach (for Air) times, and add or subtract a number that you believe to be a reasonable and accurate account for your ground handling.

So much in flying is done on the honour system... This is one of those things. Yes, you can cheat it by a small percentage over a long period of time, but it won't really benefit you in the long run. The only "benefit" would be if you cheated it by a large percentage over a short time, and that would probably be easy to invalidate with an audit.

[CFR]

Interesting how everyone kind of has a different outlook on it. There must be a set guideline on how it's supposed to be logged correctly.

There is.

When you start taxiing to when you stop taxiing is Flight Time.
When your wheels leave the ground to when they arrive back on the ground is Air Time.

Record all four times on your kneeboard and calculate them to the minute and keep perfect records.

Or do what a lot of people do, which is just record either Hobbs (for Flight) or Tach (for Air) times, and add or subtract a number that you believe to be a reasonable and accurate account for your ground handling.

So much in flying is done on the honour system... This is one of those things. Yes, you can cheat it by a small percentage over a long period of time, but it won't really benefit you in the long run. The only "benefit" would be if you cheated it by a large percentage over a short time, and that would probably be easy to invalidate with an audit.

Agreed but here's an interesting one. On my multi-engine flight test, we started up and then taxi'd out to the run-up area near the active. The runway in use was a good 8 - 10 minute taxi. Doing the mag check on the second engine revealed that it had a live mag, which resulted in a cancelled flight and a taxi back. 0.5 overall but I didn't log it (and the school didn't charge me) as It didn't seem like PIC work to me.

My GPS automatically logs the air time, so I just have to keep track of the up, down and tach time.

[photofly]

We've not long ago had the discussion about whether the taxi time of a flight called off before leaving the ground can be logged or not.

[ThisGuy]

where do you guys buy your log books?

[Oxi]

My goodness you must be kidding!

check this http://bit.ly/1v5fx2a

[ThisGuy]

My goodness you must be kidding!

check this http://bit.ly/1v5fx2a

haha thanks tips!
The question was where do you guys buy yours. Not how can I search google for everywhere that sells them.

[AirFrame]

0.5 overall but I didn't log it (and the school didn't charge me) as It didn't seem like PIC work to me.

I just assume that to log any "flight" that you have to actually "fly".

[AirFrame]

where do you guys buy your log books?

Check all of the local flying schools, look online, etc. Compare everything and decide what you want out of a paper log.

Wherever you find one that you like, buy 5. I searched everywhere trying to find another one like my first one, and couldn't. I wish I had 4 more. I ended up buying 5 of a new style that was 98% the same. From VIP.

[CFR]

0.5 overall but I didn't log it (and the school didn't charge me) as It didn't seem like PIC work to me.

I just assume that to log any "flight" that you have to actually "fly".

Agreed but there seems to still be some debate.

CAR 101.01

“flight time” means the time from the moment an aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight

I think many interpret this to read once in motion it's PIC time baby! I read it as 3 conditions that must be met. a) moving under your own power (gliders have their own rule?) b) for the purpose of taking off (ie: not heading 3 ramps over for fuel), and c) ... comes to rest at the end of the flight. Seems to me you can't come to the end of a flight unless you begin one!

[justwork]

How are you all making this sound so complicated. Engine running, you're driving it to take flying, log it. You land, drive to park, log it. You log flight time not air time. It really is that simple.

[Rookie50]

We've not long ago had the discussion about whether the taxi time of a flight called off before leaving the ground can be logged or not.

I didn't, and wouldn't, might have happened twice at most, in 9 years.