Being Hired without a Valid Group 1

[Flitey]

I recently finished a couple of contract jobs that didn't require a valid Group 1, hence it was not renewed. But now I find myself looking for work with a Group 1 that expired at the beginning of November.

I know Group 1's are listed as a requirement in most job ads, but they are also renewed whenever you get typed on a new aircraft after being hired.

So I'm wondering, should I renew my IFR on my own dime in order to be more eligible for more jobs, or is a very recently expired IFR not that big of a deal?

[chipmunk]

IMHO, if I was looking at two resumes from pilots with relatively the same experience but only one had a valid IFR, I know which one would hit the recycling bin. Unless you have something amazing that sets you apart from the herd, why would you be hired for a job for which you currently don't have the correct qualifications?

[B-rad]

Because like he said, either way you will have to do a ride and the ride can renew the rating. I've wondered this same thing before and can't think of a valid reason why it would make a difference.
It does seam a little smoother to have it current tho and to avoid the people who would throw the resume out that are put off just because it's not current. So it answer your questing about it being a big deal, to some it may be even tho I don't think it should.

[goingnowherefast]

Find a decent flight school with a sim. Renewals can be relatively cheap and easy if you don't need to rent a plane.

[ahramin]

I'm of the opinion that any company that wouldn't hire you because of a recently expired group 1 IFR is not a company you want to work for anyway. As already stated, the group 1 will be renewed on the PPC anyway.

Having said that, I have always kept all my ratings current. I'd feel silly ending up in a situation where I want or need to fly an airplane and can't because I didn't renew.

[Sulako]

The group 1 can be renewed easily with the PPC, but talking as a person who looks at resumes, I'm leery of an expired group 1 because I worry that the person hasn't flown Multi-IFR recently, which is something that is important in my world. Do I want to roll the dice on someone and hope that they can meet the standard (again) instead of someone who has recently shown they can? You tell me.

An expired Group 1 tells me that the person might be rusty on a skillset that I need to be honed to a sharp point, and I suspect I might not be alone in that assessment. Then again, I live in corporate world which is a niche in aviation. A group 1 might not matter to someone hiring for airborne survey work, but I bet it matters to someone hiring for night cargo or corporate or medevac (PC-12 excepted, heh) etc.

[Rowdy]

I've run into an interestingly similar situation. I renewed my Group 1 in airplane in preparation for the ATPL, then continued to work for an operation that didn't require it. While they are valid for 24, I'm now outside of 12 months and I have missed my window for the flight test requirement for the ATPL. I'm still current and hold all the times necessary with the exams completed. How do employers ( i know theres a lot of you that look at resumes) view that? A PPC or type rating would qualify me..

[Duffman]

I worked with a guy who never had a group 1 IFR but he had a group 3 and a multi engine rating. He was hired onto a King Air and the ride upgraded his group 3 to a group 1.

[cdnpilot77]

I've run into an interestingly similar situation. I renewed my Group 1 in airplane in preparation for the ATPL, then continued to work for an operation that didn't require it. While they are valid for 24, I'm now outside of 12 months and I have missed my window for the flight test requirement for the ATPL. I'm still current and hold all the times necessary with the exams completed. How do employers ( i know theres a lot of you that look at resumes) view that? A PPC or type rating would qualify me..

Depends on the job and the seat. If it's for a machine that requires an ATPL to be cappy and you would still need to submit the paperwork for ATPL, then might not get a shot as it could take 2-3 months for the processing. However, if it's for an F/o job or a cappy spot that requests an ATPL but does not legally have to have one then I think you would still get a look.

[Rowdy]

Good points. I was under similar assumptions. For those that want an ATPL for right seat or left seat of something that doesn't require it, it's obviously a non issue. Could be a challenge for left seat of something that does.

I was unaware that it took months for an ATPL to be processed. When did that change? I know of quite a few who had the magic paper in their hands in less than a weeks time.

[ahramin]

In 2007 I had mine in 1 day.

[kev994]

Just took me 3 months to get mine.

[trey kule]

People like to blame TC for failing to quickly process sloppy and incomplete paperwork.

I agree with Sulako. The issue is more than an expired rating. It is an issue of currency.

Some people driving around in PC 12s let them lapse. I would make that clear in the cover letter.

As others said, better to renew. The initial resume screening is not to look for the best, but to cul the heard.

[cdnpilot77]

In 2007 I had mine in 1 day.

This isn't 2007

[cdnpilot77]

I was unaware that it took months for an ATPL to be processed. When did that change? I know of quite a few who had the magic paper in their hands in less than a weeks time.

The ladies at TC in YHM were spectacular and mine took about 3 weeks I think, but this is definitely not the norm. Normal processing times at the moment are 2-3 months across the board.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Ah, the good old days. Wrote my last exam in YWG, went out for lunch and picked up my ATPL at about 2:00 that afternoon. But everything's SO much better today.
Illya

[Cat Driver]

Ah, the good old days. Wrote my last exam in YWG, went out for lunch and picked up my ATPL at about 2:00 that afternoon. But everything's SO much better today.
Illya

Yes we were really hard done by back then weren't we?

The M.O.T. Inspectors generally were from industry and flight tests were done based on if you could actually fly, paper work was done while you stood at the counter and our taxes paid for "ALL " the services.

[Rowdy]

So the consensus is, if you don't have a current MIFR and are applying for a job that requires one, you either better have a good reason (Pc12/caravan etc) or just renew it.

The ATPL consensus, go pay the 3k to do a ride in aircraft and have it signed off beforehand or operators won't look at you because of this backlog in processing?

[Flitey]

Thanks everyone, much to think about.

[human garbage]

The ATPL consensus, go pay the 3k to do a ride in aircraft and have it signed off beforehand or operators won't look at you because of this backlog in processing?

I'd say no way to the above. Too much outlay for too little in return. As you point out, you have a valid Group 1 and that should be good enough, at least initially. Unless you are aiming for a direct entry Captain job it will be fine for most HR departments I would think.

As far as delay in processing goes, all the regions are different. Seeing as you are out here in the Pacific Region, it will be about a month. A co-worker got hers signed off late October and it took just over four weeks.

I'd try sticking a BC Liquor Store Gift Card in the last page of your logbook if you need to speed it up Probably get it back in a week! I know if I was in licensing you would make the top of my pile for doing that. Works that way with all the AMEs I know. Pull up with a broken plane and a fifth of their favorite beverage and see how fast it gets fixed...