Jazz or Encore?

[dukepoint]

I think everyone has forgot about the one list at Encore. Even if it does take 8 years to move to mainline all that time on the seniority list counts toward base selection and, more importantly upgrade on the 37. Encore wins by a long shot.

I promise you that will change. There's no way a guy who's been at Westjet Mainline for 10 years is going to take kindly to a guy who's been at Encore for 8 years, then Mainline for two, moving into the left seat '73 before them. They've got serious problems brewing with this.

IMO, get on the ladder that leads where you want to end up. If flying a 737 for most of your career with predictable career progression (moving from the right seat to left as fast as you can, then staying there to climb the pay ladder), doing mainly Canadian domestic and US north south type flying is your cup of tea, then Westjet's your game. If you'd like a far more diverse career with many aircraft and position/pay options, as well as far more destinations around the globe, then AC is for you.

Contrary to what may say, the two "major airline" career paths will be very, very different. While Westjet may be getting more Widebodys in the futute, AC will have 90 within about 6 years, plus huge retirements. What the saying..."a bird in hand...."

IMO, DP.

[pacman007]

DP, one list is one list, you know where you stand years before you upgrade. Most importantly the pilot who went directly to mainline is making more money than the pilot who went through Encore. Encore pilots are essentially B scale 737 FOs.
we will just see what happens i guess

[dirk82]

I think everyone has forgot about the one list at Encore. Even if it does take 8 years to move to mainline all that time on the seniority list counts toward base selection and, more importantly upgrade on the 37. Encore wins by a long shot.

So mainline hires a guy straight into the 37 today, a guy who started on the props 18 months ago and for some crazy reason doesn't die of starvation while right seating the Q and makes the jump to mainline after 5-8 years is going to get the 37 left seat first?

[Inverted2]

I think everyone has forgot about the one list at Encore. Even if it does take 8 years to move to mainline all that time on the seniority list counts toward base selection and, more importantly upgrade on the 37. Encore wins by a long shot.

So mainline hires a guy straight into the 37 today, a guy who started on the props 18 months ago and for some crazy reason doesn't die of starvation while right seating the Q and makes the jump to mainline after 5-8 years is going to get the 37 left seat first?

You can live a long time on Kraft Dinner and powdered juice mix. Don't underestimate the human body.

[Diadem]

A guy started at AC right seat on the Embraer 18 months ago and another guy just got hired cruise relief on the 777 today. The guy flying the smaller plane gets to the left seat first. How is that different?

[flyer 1492]

The guy who is hired on the '37, will in the long run make way more money.

[complexintentions]

A guy started at AC right seat on the Embraer 18 months ago and another guy just got hired cruise relief on the 777 today. The guy flying the smaller plane gets to the left seat first. How is that different?

hahah Zing! Exactly. It isn't.

You gotta remember, Diadem, that AC guys aren't too comfortable with the concept of a shared seniority list across different divisions of the same company....

[DH772]

hahah Zing! Exactly. It isn't.

You gotta remember, Diadem, that AC guys aren't too comfortable with the concept of a shared seniority list across different divisions of the same company....

You are comparing two very different animals with regards to a shared seniority list. The idea doesn't work with a seniority merge of 2 very mature airlines vs. the merge of a brand new airline under a year old from start up.

Of course WJ was ok with a shared seniority list. At the time there was approximately 50 pilots at encore of which 1% went ahead of a mainline pilot who was also JUST hired.

vs. 1000+ Jazz pilots that will go ahead of Air Canada pilots some with 25+ years seniority.

Do you really not see how one may not be comfortable with such an idea?
WJ and Encore would have never merged lists if this merge happened 5 years from now

[Yuro]

What about now? encore vs jazz?! With jazz's new contract...

[Ypilot]

What about now? encore vs jazz?! With jazz's new contract...

Jazz freshly arrived copilots will earn 36000$ and they won't be included in the carrot package recently promised by AC.

WJ Encore pays 36000$ but they plan to lower wages to 32000$ in June, there is a carrot as well (WJ), but a huge list of candidates in front.

[rudder]

Jazz freshly arrived copilots will earn 36000$ and they won't be included in the carrot package recently promised by AC.

That carrot is an interview and nothing more.

The stick is that 80% of all future AC new-hire vacancies will be filled from AC Express.

[Ypilot]

.

The stick is that 80% of all future AC new-hire vacancies will be filled from AC Express.

The 80% is only for actual AC Express employees, I also understand that pay cut is for the ones who will follow. It is a good deal for AC Express pilots, but not a good one for next guys.

[FlyHigh13]

.

The stick is that 80% of all future AC new-hire vacancies will be filled from AC Express.

The 80% is only for actual AC Express employees, I also understand that pay cut is for the ones who will follow. It is a good deal for AC Express pilots, but not a good one for next guys.

So a new hire is not an actual employee? What are they? Do you mean current employees?

If 80% of AC Express will be given an interview (which includes Jazz pilots) and the Jazz pilots who wanted to go to AC have already flowed through via the PML, would it not be the new hires given this opportunity then?

[BingBong]

It's been three weeks...you guys are swimming with only one arm.

MINIMUM 80% jazz, 20% OTS, once jazz PML is exhausted it will then include 80% Express (based on size of rosters so jazz could be 60% of the 80%) and 20% OTS.

[Yuro]

Thank you for the clarification.

[KK7]

WJ Encore pays 36000$ but they plan to lower wages to 32000$ in June

There is no such plan.

[TGale]

BE20 driver; equating major airlines to major league sports teams indicates that you do not understand how the airline industry works. You may wish to rethink your illusion of working for a "Major". It can be a great job but the price you pay in life sacrifices and shear desperation when the industry goes backwards must be granted some level of value when making your life choices. Major league sports are about talent, getting a job at what is called a major airline, is not. Think hard about why you wish to be be a pilot... and choose wisely.

Good luck to all in the impending chaos of expansion and hiring... and the inevitable downturn that always comes.

Sincerely,

TGale

[Flyboycanada80]

I work for a smaller company (100 pilots) and am noticing the experience difference of the guys going to Encore vs Jazz. Our 704 captains are getting hired at Encore (30K pay cut) (4-7K hours), while a lot of our FOs are going to Jazz, (800-1500 hours). The guys that are at 2000+ hours are not getting even called for an interview at Jazz. Im wondering why Jazz prefers inexperienced guys with no A's as they have the opportunity to hire more experienced pilots? At least the guys going to Jazz arnt taking a 50% pay cut...

[loopa]

I work for a smaller company (100 pilots) and am noticing the experience difference of the guys going to Encore vs Jazz. Our 704 captains are getting hired at Encore (30K pay cut) (4-7K hours), while a lot of our FOs are going to Jazz, (800-1500 hours). The guys that are at 2000+ hours are not getting even called for an interview at Jazz. Im wondering why Jazz prefers inexperienced guys with no A's as they have the opportunity to hire more experienced pilots? At least the guys going to Jazz arnt taking a 50% pay cut...

Interesting you say that. One would think that if anyone tosses their resume in (irrespective of total time), that it is an indication that they are interested to work there. I'd be curious to see why Jazz is filtering through resume's to only hire pilot's with relatively low total time.

[Tanker299]

I would not say they are only hiring low timers at Jazz. We have had 2 captains with well over 3000h get hired there. I have also seen one with just over 2000 and one with about 1600.

[AllClutch]

The guy doing the YYC interviews said that candidates have on averAge 2000-3500 hours right now with TPIC.

[loopa]

The guy doing the YYC interviews said that candidates have on averAge 2000-3500 hours right now with TPIC.

That's more like what I would expect. Everyone who was hoping to be part of the expansion at AC are in turn part of the replacement at Jazz. Something seemed off with the idea that only 800 hour guys are getting in.

[Flyboycanada80]

That is just what I noticed from the 4 guys leaving to Jazz from our company. Others applied with more experience, 703/4 captains, and received no call. The FO'S however did get called.

[loopa]

That is just what I noticed from the 4 guys leaving to Jazz from our company. Others applied with more experience, 703/4 captains, and received no call. The FO'S however did get called.

I don't think there's ever any rhyme or reason as to who gets a call. With any company

[bearinmind]

250 guys at encore and 18 last year and maybe 20 this year flow, that's still 10 years to move to westjet and start at year one pay is not much of a promise at all.

Things change faster than that in this industry, so I would not put too much in the future if its 10 years out. Pick the job that will give you the best lifestyle and pay, they both seem the same for pay, so whatever makes you happy. Both companies seem to be good. If I was at 1500 hours I think I might rather fly beside a 20 year vet at Jazz than Encore, but both skippers are probably good. With 500/1200 jazz guys leaving to AC, I think advancement is good at Jazz as well, even if they are shrinking a bit in the next 10 years.

Remember its the Encore/Sky Regional wages that caused Jazz to reduce their wages.