Diadem wrote:I don't know how many times I've read threads about Georgian or Sky Regional or an American regional, and pilots taking jobs because they need to feed their families, where the Jazz pilots all said "Jazz will never sink to that level! We won't let it happen! We're better than that and we stand on principle! We won't be part of the race to the bottom!" Now it comes down to Jazz pilots having to feed their families, and boy oh boy have they changed their tunes. That's what really irks me: the hypocrisy. If I were in their positions I would have done the same thing and gotten what was best for me, so I'm not upset that they're acting in their own best interest. What really bothers me is them saying that it's everyone else's fault and they're just doing what they've been forced to do. If any of them would come out and say "Yeah, Jazz is a dead end, so get from it what you can while you can", I would have a lot of respect for their honesty. Trying to sell this as a good thing for everyone that couldn't be helped because of the competition is attempting to absolve themselves of any responsibility for voting in a contract that will sell all new hires short. Admit that the only people who will benefit from the new agreement are those who already have Jazz seniority numbers, and that it's a waste of time for anyone else to apply, and I think a lot of people will appreciate the candour.
The difference between Jazz and Encore is that Encore is brimming with opportunity. The people I know who've gone to Jazz have gone there because it's the place they thought they would end their careers and make a good living; they never planned on it being a stepping stone, so they wanted good pay and benefits. The people who went to Encore knew that they were making less, but they accepted the lower wage because of the long-term pay-off. They get quick upgrades (with consequent raises) and guaranteed flow to mainline (with consequent raises). A new hire at Jazz will now make less than Encore, less than Sky Regional, even less than Georgian. There are long lines for upgrades. There are no guarantees of flowing to AC; indeed, it's almost a certainty that it won't happen for anyone who doesn't already work at Jazz. So now Jazz has become a company with no future, no career prospects, and no pay. Why would anyone leave a job as a captain on a King Air or a 1900 for $70000/year to make half that, and not be able to upgrade or go to AC before being laid off in 2025? That's ultimately the crux of my issue with this TA, from the perspective of a potential applicant. There's absolutely nothing in it for me. Does the TA have a clause about how many pilots will flow to AC if Jazz can't hire enough replacements? Because I don't know anyone qualified who would bother accepting that pay with no future prospects. There's a reason Encore is only flowing at 25%, and now that they've got enough pilots on the go they're increasing to 50%. I bet that if Jazz can't replace everyone who wants to go to AC, and the regional operation is put at risk, there will be a lot fewer than 80% Jazz pilots in every groundschool. Who knows, maybe Jazz will hire 700 college grads over the next ten years, because they would be the only ones willing to take dead-end jobs for $34000/year. It most definitely is a B-scale if I make less for the next decade, and would only eventually catch up to the standard scale years and years down the line; I'd be making 3/4 what new hires do now, and I wouldn't make up the difference for almost two decades. Even then, it would never even out, I would just be getting back on par, and I would have lost out on savings and retirement income with interest over the course of a huge chunk of my career. I would never get that back. As for raises, if it really will only rise by $1/hr each year for the first three years, then that's hardly enough to cover inflation; it's really just a cost-of-living increase. Under the current agreement, it rises $6/hr in the second year, and $8/hr in the third year, which means new hires will just fall further and further behind. After five years you'll be making $47/hr, which is less than the current second-year pay; not only that, but I already have all of the benefits that rxl listed, and I don't know of any employers hiring pilots of my experience level who don't also offer all of that. If you owned a McDonald's franchise and paid your workers $10/hr, but then started paying new hires $8/hr and didn't raise it to $10 for a decade, you're goddamn right that's a B-scale. Eventually getting back to the regular pay rate while working for less over the course of years adds up to hundreds of thousands of dollars of lost income.
I'd really like a Jazz pilot to come out and say "We know there's no future here, so we're getting over to AC while the getting's good. It's going to be a terrible place for new hires, so don't bother." It would be a nice dose of refreshing honesty. Trying to sell this as a great thing for new hires is disingenuous, and passing the blame onto all the other regional operators while simultaneously voting in a TA that benefits yourselves at the cost of those new hires reeks of hypocrisy. We all know Jazz will be dead come 2025, so you might as well admit it and tell everyone here not to bother submitting applications. Just don't be surprised when your plan falls apart because they can't entice anyone to accept the horrible new conditions and replace you, or you find yourself flying with a bunch of pimply college grads who don't know an ILS from an FMS and need to be babysat all day.
+1
What a breath of fresh air. You sir are correct
teacher wrote:I feel like I need to finally jump in here to clarify some ultra moron comments about this TA at Jazz.
Before you start throwing stones at the Jazz pilot group for trying to survive blame who ACTUALLY deserves to be blamed. Air Canada dictates what they pay their pilots and also dictates what it will pay for tier 2 lift. Air Canada said "accept these rates or no CPA past 2020." These new rates have now dictated that for Jazz to survive our costs MUST be lower or ZERO jobs post 2020.
Everybody is praising WJ but who started Encore in order to under cut and price out the competition? WESTJET. Who advertised paying less than the competition? Encore! Who works more, gets paid less with the carrot of perhaps going to Westjet? ENCORE! Who's pilots have resumes at ALL the major airlines in Canada trying to jump ship? ENCORE!
Encore, Sky Regional and Air Georgean are 100% to blame for the drastic reduction in regional wages because their respective motherships have dictated that they do so. Jazz pilots have on many occasions had their livelyhoods threatened by taking difficult actions to raise the bar on pilot wages and working conditions and what did it get us? Price chopping, wage lowering competitors that are proud to do it for less. Now WE have no choice but to lower ourselves to their level in order to survive.
Some pilot unity, thanks a lot. If anybody needed to stand up for pilot wages it was EVERYBODY ELSE who agreed to work for less than what we made.
Now, I understand that a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do to feed their family but spare me the BS about Jazz selling out new hires and lowering the bar. Jazz pilots still have an industry leading contract. Yes, new hires get paid less but will eventually make the same. It's not a "B" scale if the top end is the same as in the current contract. Savings had to be found and new hires generally leave within the first 3 years at Jazz regardless of pay as has been seen in the past 5 years despite the pay increase for FOs in the last contract. So there is the reason for the lower starting pay. It could have been much worse but the pain was spread around to everyone.
So now we have a new TA that keeps Jazz alive, provides AC with a more cost competitive tier 2 carrier, maintains the current pay scales for pilots staying at Jazz, has yearly increases for all wages, expenses and per diems (twice as much as most airlines in Canada), allows pilots who end up staying at Jazz the opportunity to make just as much as current Jazz pilots but over a few extra years and allows pilot mobility for Jazz pilots to AC.
Just remember to place the blame where it actually belongs, not the Jazz pilots caught in the middle but to all those that forced our hand and almost cost us our jobs.
I disagree with you wholeheartedly, respectfully of course.
When did Sky Regional / GGN take over Jazz flying out east for peanuts? Quite a bit of time before Encore? Sounds to me the real blame here is AC playing chess with its regionals, and Encore jumping in on the opportunity and conquering the regional market while this is happening. To blame Encore for why Jazz is in this position is completely irrelevant. Start with your other partners, and work yourself backwards. GGN/Sky/EVAS/US regionals doing AC flying and eventually.... AC. AC is the one that wants regional flying done for cheap. Encore's ability to provide the right incentives to its owners will start the flow of the kool-aid, attract people, and will expand like we've already seen it do. It will take over Canadian regional flying. All the while AC is tossing regional flying to the lowest bidder like throwing a school boy between two priests; there will be a fight. The lowest bidder is the winner.
Did WJ do that? No. They started a new business, of which they own a big chunk of. They didn't give their flying to the lowest bidder. It's unlike WJ's way to expect its pilot's sitting at 75k/yr for 7 years to fly a Q400. People that have a hate on for WJ will say, "well they did it with Encore" ... I say to you, will you put all your eggs in one basket when going into the stock market? Will you bet all your money on your stocks making you rich? No. Encore did the same. They went about their expenses with a calculated risk. Now that it's proven to be a success, you should start seeing the WJ management take leadership and improve the bed posts that are holding the incentives. Because it has been my exp that WJ never adopted the mentality of "Someone else does it for cheap, why should we have to pay our guys to do it for more?" WJ's mentality has always been to take care of their own when they can. And with Encore, they will. It's just a matter of time.
Let's not forget, the reasoning for -10% was because it's an experiment. Now that it's growing and maturing and proving to be a success, it's my opinion that they will answer with better pay.
As always, all the above is an opinion, I could be wrong, and have definitely been before.
