Air Canada Pool

[777longhaul]

Ah Yeah

There are not a couple of hundred who want back in. That time, due to extended court battles has pasted. Most of the aprx. 200, who were force retired, and did something about, it, (we all filed an appeal with the CHRC within one year of forced termination) are now past 65, so your remarks are wrong, again.

The new ICAO rules have banned any pilot over 65 from flying in an airline capacity. No reason, medical or otherwise, it is just yet another number, that ICAO has pulled out of their collective hats, to cover their perceived risks, with no data to back up the number.

Very few, of the aprx. 200 AC pilots who were all in good standing with acpa, (paying maximum union dues) at the time of their forced retirement, by acpa, and AC, will be able to return to AC depending on how the Federal Court of Appeals, rules, from the court appeals, held on January 20 2015.

Don't worry, acpa has your back.

[arcadia]

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[whatsitdoingnow]

Wow! There must be something seriously wrong with the psych eval at AC if you past it arcadia! What kind of post is that?

[TrailerParkBoy]

Arcadia..."Did you nap today? I think you need a nap!"

Go to YouTube and search: did you nap today

[arcadia]

.

[AllClutch]

The senior guys will go first but all of us on the PML will get our shot within 4-6 years. Even the most junior FO. We are privy to the exact language in the PML and trust us the junior guys arebt getting the shaft or else this wouldnt have had the overwhelming support it enjoyed.
You will be there shortly Im sure.
Sorry that this happened and I cant imagine the stress your under.

[Radiocaster]

What???
Do you guys expect the poolies to be happy with this new agreement? I may be totally lost here but is this deal not targeted towards the more senior guy/gal at Jazz, already left seat or very senior right seat? So why come on here with a background sob story on how hard of a go you have had?? Thats the industry in Canada ain't it? Sorry but I don't buy into that crap, and while I probably shouldn't have said I hope he doesn't get hired, maybe I should have said "The industry is many things, fair ain't one of them." So if he doesn't get on, I won't shed any tears for him either. Sorry if that sounds crazy to some of you. JMO

Bs

[altiplano]

This doesn't affect me, but I hate to see guys that have been hanging in there passed over because some deal signed between a bunch of suits.

[WF9F]

Everybody loses at one point or another in this crap industry, some more and some less. When Jazz guys coming to AC expect to bring any credit with them because they worked at Jazz is wrong.It's a separate company like any CPA carrier. Your getting 4 years of bridge payments, that's huge. We have had guys financially impacted in negative ways because of LOU 18(OTS guys in particular) in the past and we don't want that happening again.
Any new hire , OTS or Jazz, should start with the same pay and benefits.
Those OTS guys have to make the same decisions with regard to pay cuts, mortgages, Wifey and kids,starting over, etc.Yeah it sucks but it gets done.
Everyone is welcome here but don't expect more just because you are from Jazz and I think some do..
And when you or anyone else comes over to AC don't bring any personal baggage with you, try and think as part of a group of pilots here who are already dealing with crap and could probably use a hand in making the place a little more united.

[rxl]

This doesn't affect me, but I hate to see guys that have been hanging in there passed over because some deal signed between a bunch of suits.

Some of those suits are pilot suits. While ALPA has NOT been involved in negotiating the PMA with Air Canada and/or Jazz, ACPA has been, and is involved in the creation of what seems already to be an evolving document.

[rxl]

And when you or anyone else comes over to AC don't bring any personal baggage with you, try and think as part of a group of pilots here who are already dealing with crap and could probably use a hand in making the place a little more united.

I agree with this sentiment, I would however replace the "comes over to AC" with "entering the business of flying airplanes,".

[mbav8r]

Arcadia, my intent was not to rub anything in however, it appears you missed the context of what I was trying to say. You clearly missed the fact that I was prevented from attending the interview, prevented, do you get that? Had it not been for a LOU between companies I could very well have been there many years ago, assuming I would've passed the pysch eval.
When I applied to Jazz, I was applying on AirCanada.com as when I started to apply it was a wholly owned Air Canada company. Then when I started at Jazz, it was still majority owned and there was a process in place to move over when my number came up.
I'm sorry for what you perceive as Jazz pilots stealing what is rightfully yours, but for you to discount my "story" as a joke, really!
I think you should write HR and tell them how you really feel about this, who knows maybe you'll be in the first class but I won't dignify anymore of your childish rants.
Good luck!

[eagle7044]

(post deleted)

[arcadia]

.

[altiplano]

This doesn't affect me, but I hate to see guys that have been hanging in there passed over because some deal signed between a bunch of suits.

Some of those suits are pilot suits. While ALPA has NOT been involved in negotiating the PMA with Air Canada and/or Jazz, ACPA has been, and is involved in the creation of what seems already to be an evolving document.

Suits. Period. Do you think ACPA wanted this? Indifferent at best. But ACPA didn't look for an agreement of this sort and involvement was more likely dragged into it in response to ground rules for seniority place holding and the like after the companies' deal. This is a deal between AC / Chorus management.

And I don't believe you're assertion of ALPA not involved. Obviously the Jazz mec/negots committees were involved in this agreement.

[groundpilot]

My theory for the resume was they wanted to see our current employers in the case it changed since your interview. Ie moved to Jazz, CMA, Georgian, etc

[rudder]

Suits. Period. Do you think ACPA wanted this? Indifferent at best. But ACPA didn't look for an agreement of this sort and involvement was more likely dragged into it in response to ground rules for seniority place holding and the like after the companies' deal. This is a deal between AC / Chorus management.

Just wait for the details from ACPA. Would appear that there was some 'quid pro quo' in the discussions with AC. ACPA will reap some gains and it will cost effectively nothing.

Life is never black and white. Just many shades of grey. If you are making gains I would not bother to stop to take the time to assess the circumstances under which you are making the gains.

[red 5]

After reading many posts by Arcadia you need to step back a little. Your vitriol for others is saddening. I do understand your frustration but blaming others will not help your cause. I have worked in this industry for many years and nothing has been fair. It happened the day I started in this industry when I was bypassed for a position because the other guys dad was something of a big shot and managed to get him the job before me , not fair. I have seen many people ruined by this industry. I have friends who were mechanics at Air Canada who all lost their jobs when they choose Aveos as they could not stay with mainline, only to find out they would have been recalled in a few years, not fair. Air Canada is a big company which is not looking out for you,or the Jazz pilots ,they are looking out for themselves as many businesses do . I do not blame AC for this , it is just the way things are today. Hoping someone does not get the job is petty and childish. If you have nothing positive to add sometimes the best advise is to stay silent, it brings a level of decorum. I do hope you get called but remember you may be sitting next to one of those Jazz pilots one day. I am not affiliated with neither AC or Jazz and am not in the pool.

[dukepoint]

Ah Yeah

There are not a couple of hundred who want back in. That time, due to extended court battles has pasted. Most of the aprx. 200, who were force retired, and did something about, it, (we all filed an appeal with the CHRC within one year of forced termination) are now past 65, so your remarks are wrong, again.

The new ICAO rules have banned any pilot over 65 from flying in an airline capacity. No reason, medical or otherwise, it is just yet another number, that ICAO has pulled out of their collective hats, to cover their perceived risks, with no data to back up the number.

Very few, of the aprx. 200 AC pilots who were all in good standing with acpa, (paying maximum union dues) at the time of their forced retirement, by acpa, and AC, will be able to return to AC depending on how the Federal Court of Appeals, rules, from the court appeals, held on January 20 2015.

Don't worry, acpa has your back.

Go back to your cronies on the FP60 thread. Why you believe anyone would be interested in your "Soap Boxing" on this thread is beyond me.

If your hand wasn't clearly rifling through the Junior Memberships pocket in the form of looking for a "sympathetic go" at the trough once more, after feeding from it for 35 years, you'd have a "touch" more sympathy.

It's too bad the law didn't change fast enough to suit your individual case. Good luck and all though.....

DP.

[rxl]

This doesn't affect me, but I hate to see guys that have been hanging in there passed over because some deal signed between a bunch of suits.

Some of those suits are pilot suits. While ALPA has NOT been involved in negotiating the PMA with Air Canada and/or Jazz, ACPA has been, and is involved in the creation of what seems already to be an evolving document.

Suits. Period. Do you think ACPA wanted this? Indifferent at best. But ACPA didn't look for an agreement of this sort and involvement was more likely dragged into it in response to ground rules for seniority place holding and the like after the companies' deal. This is a deal between AC / Chorus management.

And I don't believe you're assertion of ALPA not involved. Obviously the Jazz mec/negots committees were involved in this agreement.

I have to question your assertion that ACPA is indifferent or was dragged into this - especially after reading your MEC's glowing assessment of the Pilot Mobility Agreement.
Your MEC paints it as nothing but a win-win for your group and for your company.

From a Jazz pilot's perspective the PMA at least provides an option to a group that has carried on Air Canada's business for a very long time and has been painted into a corner by your management.

[altiplano]

I have to question your assertion that ACPA is indifferent or was dragged into this - especially after reading your MEC's glowing assessment of the Pilot Mobility Agreement.
Your MEC paints it as nothing but a win-win for your group and for your company.

From a Jazz pilot's perspective the PMA at least provides an option to a group that has carried on Air Canada's business for a very long time and has been painted into a corner by your management.

Didn't see any "glowing assessment" from ACPA on this, and I do read the emails. Sounds like the new CPA is good for AC, but beyond that wtf do the rank and file care? Why would ACPA initiate something like this deal? Where is the win for ACPA pilots? I really just don't care at all beyond my gut feeling that calls BS on your sense of entitlement to a job here ahead of guys interviewed, vetted and waiting for a call for the past year or more.

Of course it provides a great option for Jazz pilots. From your sentiment you obviously feel it was owed. And I disagree. That's all, I just disagree and think those guys should get their shot too.

[rxl]

I have to question your assertion that ACPA is indifferent or was dragged into this - especially after reading your MEC's glowing assessment of the Pilot Mobility Agreement.
Your MEC paints it as nothing but a win-win for your group and for your company.

From a Jazz pilot's perspective the PMA at least provides an option to a group that has carried on Air Canada's business for a very long time and has been painted into a corner by your management.

Didn't see any "glowing assessment" from ACPA on this, and I do read the emails. Sounds like the new CPA is good for AC, but beyond that wtf do the rank and file care? Why would ACPA initiate something like this deal? Where is the win for ACPA pilots? I really just don't care at all beyond my gut feeling that calls BS on your sense of entitlement to a job here ahead of guys interviewed, vetted and waiting for a call for the past year or more.

Of course it provides a great option for Jazz pilots. From your sentiment you obviously feel it was owed. And I disagree. That's all, I just disagree and think those guys should get their shot too.

See ACPA MEC newsletter #04 dated Jan. 30 2015

I have no interest in a position with Air Canada. My name is not on the PML.

I have no sense of entitlement but what I do have is a sense that jobs of all description at Jazz (nearly 5,000) are at risk because of an unsustainable business arrangement created post CCAA by Air Canada management to raise cash.

My sense is that the many talented people that I have had the pleasure to work with at Jazz for quite a number of years deserve at least a shot at an interview - if they want it - given their service and the jeopardy that their current jobs are in.

[TrailerParkBoy]

If you're not at AC yet, but in the pool, you should be excited to soon be at AC. One more year flying where you are now won't harm you. There are hundreds behind you that won't even get a call for an interview for years to come...including all the Jazz FOs who were waiting for an interview!

If you are at AC, you shouldn't care if Jazz pilots are being hired at the bottom of the list. It won't cost you anything, in fact, your profit sharing will be larger with every Jazz pilot hired!

Everyone has to stop blaming the Jazz Pilots for this deal. They were the last ones involved in creating this deal!

[TheStig]

I have to question your assertion that ACPA is indifferent or was dragged into this - especially after reading your MEC's glowing assessment of the Pilot Mobility Agreement.
Your MEC paints it as nothing but a win-win for your group and for your company.

From a Jazz pilot's perspective the PMA at least provides an option to a group that has carried on Air Canada's business for a very long time and has been painted into a corner by your management.

I really just don't care at all beyond my gut feeling that calls BS on your sense of entitlement to a job here ahead of guys interviewed, vetted and waiting for a call for the past year or more.

Of course it provides a great option for Jazz pilots. From your sentiment you obviously feel it was owed. And I disagree. That's all, I just disagree and think those guys should get their shot too.

My sense is that the many talented people that I have had the pleasure to work with at Jazz for quite a number of years deserve at least a shot at an interview - if they want it - given their service and the jeopardy that their current jobs are in.

I disagree, Jazz pilots deserve the same shot at an interview as any other Pilot with the right to work in Canada. It's a shot many have already had, and most would have had (if they'd wanted it) anyways. "Carried on Air Canada's business." doesn't seem like the strongest argument considering the whole Thomas Cook experiment where you flew for one of Air Canada's competitors.

The PMA isn't about rewarding loyalty, it's a severance package.

I find it astounding that Jazz pilots feel ACPA had some input it the writing of any aspect of you CA specifically the PMA...and ALPA didn't?!? Is that how this was pitched by ALPA? I figured they'd be proud of what they accomplished. We all know they faced some tough decisions, such as, the fleet being reduced by 50%. The manner in which they managed to secure employment at another company for its members and negotiate improvements for those who decide to stay should be commended.

ACPA's glowing assessment, I believe, is the first part of a sales pitch to the membership to justify the fact that they've agreed to a MOA (essentially re-written our CA) without the membership voting on it. The most telling part of the MEC letter was the line stating "…based on the date each individual is offered employment." Sounds like an arrangement for frozen numbers has been made? That said, I believe their actions have been in reaction to this new deal.

[countryhick]

The PMA is a business deal between AC and Chorus. ALPA and ACPA may have had input, maybe not. Ultimately the deal was signed by those way above our pay grade. Yes, it is basically a severance package. A deadline for signing the list has been extended with the news of some sort of delay mechanism. Why the extension? I think that's easy to figure out!

This "addendum" to the TA presented to us has caused a lot of angst among our group. It placed a significant number in an uncomfortable position, with some difficult decisions to be made in a very short period of time. One of those rock and a hard place things....it's not as simple as saying yes or no to an interview.

FWIW, I think the hiring pool should be offered employment prior to anyone that is part of this agreement. Yes even Arcadia......