Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
tbaylx wrote: you have no idea what a commodity based economy is all about and probably should keep your opinions to yourself.
At least ten unit trains full of coal go (almost literally) through my back yard every day....Shiny Side Up wrote:Indeed! There are still a lot of other things we can strip from the earth and send to other countries cheaply.iflyforpie wrote:Oil and gas don't make up as large of a portion of the Canadian economy as people think. Its a growth and confidence driver.... that's all.
A lot of what's being mowed down en masse these days is beetle kill. It's got a limited shelf life, use it or lose it, if it doesn't burn up on you first. Most of the bad burns from beetle kill have already done the damage tho, just refer to recent history in the okanagan for references on how well beetle kill will burn, and how hard it is to stop that burn. The stuff that's been standing dead to long now to make lumbr still has some use, if you can get it into the plants before mother nature burns it, makes good pellets for wood stoves. Ship them off to europe, and the coal plants get credit for 'green energy' if 20% of what they burn is wood pellets rather than coal.iflyforpie wrote:Oh... trees....
In the last two years they have been going hell-for-leather chopping stuff down.
Yes, lower fuel prices make for lower operating costs but that is not what I meant when I stated NCA'a problems are tied to the oil prices. They are a factor because about 99.9% of NCA's business is tied to the oil industry. If the oil companies are hurting, they won't be flying as much.Get you collective heads out of your collective arses. Any aviation company's majour costs are fuel, up to 2/3rds of their cost, so I don't see your logic.
I'm sure that even the funeral industry has a slow week here and there, but they know there is a 100% chance of business picking up soon. The oil industry also enjoys that 100% chance, but the weeks tend to be a little longer and the preparedness for the lull a little less thought out by many.CID wrote:You can sell funeral plots, but if nobody is dying.....
North Shore wrote:3. Saw a quote somewhere on the interwebs, IIRC, it was from a Newfie: "Son, never buy anything that you can't cover with a pogey cheque..."
Oil prices have a direct impact on the value of the Canadian dollar, and it's dropped so low that it's becoming prohibitively expensive to fly to the US, or to any country that pegs its currency to the USD, or any country that hasn't had the same drop in value for its currency. That's going to have a direct impact on how many people can afford to buy plane tickets; it's about 30% more expensive to travel to the US than when the dollar was at par, and saving a few bucks on gas doesn't make up for that. I'm saving about $10 a month on gas, and if I had a gas-guzzler and drove more I might be saving $20, so the impact for the average consumer (you know, the ones who buy plane tickets) is minimal. Airlines might be saving some money on fuel, but if fewer people are flying then it doesn't really benefit them. Not only that, but purchases of new aircraft are paid for in USD, as are many other things, such as vacation packages, which directly impact the bottom line of airlines. Sure, exporters might sell a bit more, but they're still competing with cheaper products from Asia and Mexico, and it's going to take a long time for manufacturers to find customers and ramp up production. In the meantime, the federal government is receiving less tax revenue, and less in terms of transfer payments from Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland, which means less money for all Canadians. That's less for health, infrastructure, defence, transportation safety, etc, which means that everyone is impacted. But that's all good, because you're saving 20 cents per litre on gas, and only greedy rig pigs will be impacted by this.Heliian wrote:Get you collective heads out of your collective arses. Any aviation company's majour costs are fuel, up to 2/3rds of their cost, so I don't see your logic.
It's not my fault you bought a trailer in fort mac for 500g's, a little planning and foresight next time maybe.
My daily fuel costs have dropped 40% and I spend that extra cash back into the economy and save some for the future too. I don't feel bad for the patch, they had their party and now the hangover....until the next party.
Nope, 30 year old regen in lots of places. Beetle kill has come and gone, and trees with no needles won't support a crown fire.goldeneagle wrote:A lot of what's being mowed down en masse these days is beetle kill. It's got a limited shelf life, use it or lose it, if it doesn't burn up on you first.iflyforpie wrote:Oh... trees....
In the last two years they have been going hell-for-leather chopping stuff down.
Brother in-law works for ATS and confirmed that both UAL and WJ have cut back flights in and out of YEG... So the above sounds right.Diadem wrote:Oil prices have a direct impact on the value of the Canadian dollar, and it's dropped so low that it's becoming prohibitively expensive to fly to the US, or to any country that pegs its currency to the USD, or any country that hasn't had the same drop in value for its currency. That's going to have a direct impact on how many people can afford to buy plane tickets; it's about 30% more expensive to travel to the US than when the dollar was at par, and saving a few bucks on gas doesn't make up for that. I'm saving about $10 a month on gas, and if I had a gas-guzzler and drove more I might be saving $20, so the impact for the average consumer (you know, the ones who buy plane tickets) is minimal. Airlines might be saving some money on fuel, but if fewer people are flying then it doesn't really benefit them. Not only that, but purchases of new aircraft are paid for in USD, as are many other things, such as vacation packages, which directly impact the bottom line of airlines. Sure, exporters might sell a bit more, but they're still competing with cheaper products from Asia and Mexico, and it's going to take a long time for manufacturers to find customers and ramp up production. In the meantime, the federal government is receiving less tax revenue, and less in terms of transfer payments from Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland, which means less money for all Canadians. That's less for health, infrastructure, defence, transportation safety, etc, which means that everyone is impacted. But that's all good, because you're saving 20 cents per litre on gas, and only greedy rig pigs will be impacted by this.Heliian wrote:Get you collective heads out of your collective arses. Any aviation company's majour costs are fuel, up to 2/3rds of their cost, so I don't see your logic.
It's not my fault you bought a trailer in fort mac for 500g's, a little planning and foresight next time maybe.
My daily fuel costs have dropped 40% and I spend that extra cash back into the economy and save some for the future too. I don't feel bad for the patch, they had their party and now the hangover....until the next party.
Not sure that's true. Gold producers were getting 1300/ounce in the summer, they are now receiving 1650/ounce with their largest operating expense being fuel. I'm pretty sure they're not terribly upset that oil is where it's at. Though I haven't checked iron copper or natural gas I imagine the same principle applies.planemikey wrote:Its not just the oil patch hurting but Natural Gas, Gold , copper , Iron ore , Moly prices have been halved as well . This creates a domino effect for everything not just in aviation . This happened in 2008 and the patch boys were over extended with toys and trucks . Hopefully they learned to save for a rainy day this time cause clouds are building for sure . In a world where there is more production that consumption this is what happens. If you have debt your in trouble if not you will need to diversify and use your savings to ride out the storm. No different in my parents or grandparents days and they weren't concerned what Katie Perry was wearing, the number of apps they had and how many people were following them on facebook or twitter !
Not quite accurate, 5T has roughly half of their revenue in oil patch. What would you do as management? Turn down work that pays well because then too much of your revenue would come from one source? Its not like management hasn't seen this before. 5t for one is considerably more diversified this time than 2008. Can't blame a company for picking up work that pays well when its availabledhc# wrote:Companies like NCA and CDN North unfortunately put all or most of their eggs in one basket, relying a bit too much on one industry to fuel growth, now its come back to haunt them....blame management for seamingly not having a plan for economic rainy days like now.....only the hard working employees get the shaft when it all goes in the crapper.
Will the lessons learned from this downturn change things once the price of oil comes roaring back? Probably not.
thats a U.S. dollar figure. With a dollar around .80 that puts the value of an oz to just under $1650iSight wrote:Last I checked, gold was still below $1300/oz.
I do see that. However, gold has been steady around 1300USD (with the odd flux higher or lower) for the better part of 1.5 years while the CAD has been steadily trucking downward to a 20% decline in the same time period. So no real increase in the price of gold, just a comparable increase through reduced costs. Though for commodity producers in general, operating costs tend to affect the bottom line one-to-one while price changes are more a two-to-one affair.leftoftrack wrote:thats a U.S. dollar figure. With a dollar around .80 that puts the value of an oz to just under $1650iSight wrote:Last I checked, gold was still below $1300/oz.
The oil industry has been very irresponsible. They've had a rather long stretch of prosperity and the money has been largely squandered. We all know that the price of oil needs to be relatively high for Alberta oil to be profitable so it may take awhile for the industry to rebound. If and when it does, I assume the companies and the governments will be leaner and meaner. It won't bounce back to the same levels any time soon.I'm sure that even the funeral industry has a slow week here and there, but they know there is a 100% chance of business picking up soon. The oil industry also enjoys that 100% chance, but the weeks tend to be a little longer and the preparedness for the lull a little less thought out by many.
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