Hi xs. I'm not meaning to sound flippant when I tell you that, but it is true. It was removed from our operation after lots of discussion and risk assessment. It wasn't simply thrown out, but a more thorough briefing with cabin crew takes place, where selected emergencies are discussed.xsbank wrote:So Canoe, you're telling me that nobody 'does' the engine fail drill until you get back in the sim in 6 months? That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. No wonder they fall out of the air.
For the record, haven't seen any of our flights "fall out of the air" yet. Closest to it was the unfortunate crash at Dryden in 1989. No amount of drill rehearsal would have helped that day.
You hit the nail on the head LC. Regarding drills for large turboprops like the ATR, there are several different possible malfunctions and required actions. The time afforded for reviewing all the possible scenarios just isn't there; and it became simple rote verbiage to satisfy a requirement. It's expected that you know your vital/memory actions, just like it's expected that you know your airplane. That's what we get paid to do. What you say about slowing down: amen. I can say without hesitation that the best executed drills I see in the sim are from those who are methodical and deliberate about what they are doing. I'm not passing judgement on this crew (yet), but just stating my observation related to the latest news from Taiwan.Liquid Charlie wrote:
I have mixed feelings how much this helps it's the same with scripted crew briefings -- people tend to spew them out from memory at such a high rate that no one pays attention anyway -- as far as drills -- you have to know them and if you are depending on crew briefings to keep them in your memory -- come on -- it's too late - it's fuked already -- why would anyone feather the wrong engine -- by being in a hurry and not waiting for confirmation -- I always fall back on the old phrase -- "fly the fuking aircraft" first and work efficiently through your drills and check lists -- this might shock a few here but from my point of view the guy in the left seat was low time (in the real world around 4000 hrs is low time) -- as pointed out he could be upgrading -- sadly if he had done nothing else except fly the aircraft and not touched anything this accident likely would not of happened --
From an old grey haired gentleman who has several engine failures and many shut downs -- slow down -- confirm everything and work like a team and fall back on what you learned in the sim -- a food for thought -- by far most of my failures and shut downs have been turbine and jet engines -- pay attention single engine drivers -- stay sharp
Regarding experience, I agree completely. They are touted as "experienced", but really they aren't. Especially if you do the math- virtually all their time is in the ATR. There are experiences gained from flying several types enroute to 4, 5 or 8000 hours. That's a whole other debate, but one I am a firm believer in. As a 10,000 hour pilot, with about half that in both seats of the DH8 family of airplanes, I consider myself on the "low side of experienced"; mainly because I've had generally a fairly benign flight career to now (no engine failures... yes I know!, no major smoke events etc). I've learned lots flying with guys who have had these things happen over their many more flying hours than mine.
Your sage advice is to fly the airplane first. Absolutely. My advice to conducting a drill (besides slow it down), is "Say-Pause-Do". Say (clearly/loudly) what the action is you're about to do, Pause to allow the other pilot (or perhaps Jumpseat occupant!) to interject if they disagree, then do the action. It's not a race.
Anyways, if this was indeed a case of incorrect engine being shutdown, that's a costly and totally preventable mistake.
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