Low-timer Road Trip

[Scudrunner703]

I would definitely take a ride on the Polar Bear Express to Moosonee. I did a season with the single pic guys. Got about 700 hrs. Good pay and free housing. As far as the multi outfit there, never heard many good things except no bond. The new CP is a great guy though.

[FlyingMonkey]

Hey Chelo, definitely stop by YQT on your way to Winnipeg. There are lots of 703/704 operators and most of them do a lot of flying. For example, Wasaya, Air Bravo, Thunder just name a few. The problem your going to run into is that with the total time you have, your likely going to have to work the ramp initially or work as dispatcher. It sucks that after spending all that money and putting in all that effort you might be loading cargo or working a desk for 6-9 months but that's the nature of the industry. It sounds like instructing isn't for you and that's ok. The industry is full of instructors that are in it for the wrong reasons or just aren't cut out for teaching. So good for you for opting otherwise.

Wasaya has a 'wannabe' program where they will stick you in Red Lake or Pickle Lake to work the ramp. After several months of working the ramp you will receive a right seat PCC on the Caravan and you will fly right seat until you accrue 1000 hrs TT. The Caravans fly a ton! It's not uncommon for the Caravan guys to max out at 150 hrs a month. So when you do start flying you will build time very quickly. Once you hit that 1000 hr mark you can move within the company to different equipment, PC12, B1900, basically wherever there is a vacancy. That great about it is that you get your seniority number as soon as you get a PCC! So when you do reach the 1000 hr mark, you will have seniority over guys who got hired after you even though they may have 2000-3000 hrs. I worked for Wasaya and I really enjoyed my time there. The CP is a great guy and they really appreciate guy/girls dropping of their resumes in person.

Air Bravo is another company that would take you with low time. You would have to work as a dispatcher for several months and then you would begin flying part time on charters as they come up. Ive worked for both companies and Wasaya is the better option without a doubt. You can PM for more details if you like.

My advice would be don't be afraid of putting in some hard work on the ramp or the desk. If you have a great attitude and work hard, you will get your chance!
PM if you have any questions!

Best of luck!

FM

[xsbank]

Right seat on a Caravan? Is that a joke? Is that what they do to you, make you swamp on a Caravan instead of working the ramp? That's a promotion? You can't log that. Is there a column for single-pilot copilot?

You don't learn by watching, you learn by doing! If you are in the Caravan and "the pilot" is in the right seat, fair enough. Otherwise, I have to praise our operators for their creativity and their ability to find new ways to get guys to wash the hangar floor.

Good luck with that.

[flyinhigh]

Right seat on a Caravan? Is that a joke? Is that what they do to you, make you swamp on a Caravan instead of working the ramp? That's a promotion? You can't log that. Is there a column for single-pilot copilot?

You don't learn by watching, you learn by doing! If you are in the Caravan and "the pilot" is in the right seat, fair enough. Otherwise, I have to praise our operators for their creativity and their ability to find new ways to get guys to wash the hangar floor.

Good luck with that.

Wasaya has been doing that for the past 10+ years actually. I remember flying out of YRL back in 04ish and they were doing this long before that.

[Chelo]

If, on your great adventure, you are offered a ramp job, don't take it unless they offer to check you out on empty legs, freight runs or similar. If they use you in the right seat of an airplane that actually uses a right seater, all good. If you don't get this sort of commitment, keep looking. The big problem for companies is getting good rampies that know something about airplane's and are willing to leave their families to live in Fort Hopeless for years with cheap wages and nothing but that carrot dangling. You guessed it, it's harder to get a good rampie than it is to get a pilot. Rampies, like dispatchers, make or break your company so you are valuable on the ramp, not so much as a beginner pilot, so beware!

The carrot dangling is definitely something I worry about. I've read a few things and past stories that almost seem to good to be true, and then there's countless horror stories that have been documented here (most having to do with safety issues). I have kind of keyed in on a few companies that I've done some serious homework on that I hope to have good visits with, so we'll see what comes out of my road trip.

Thanks for the reply.

I would definitely take a ride on the Polar Bear Express to Moosonee. I did a season with the single pic guys. Got about 700 hrs. Good pay and free housing. As far as the multi outfit there, never heard many good things except no bond. The new CP is a great guy though.

I have thought about making a stop in Moosonee on the way home from this road trip. I haven't had a chance to plan the logistics out of what I'll do with my car while making the trip out there so I can't confirm I'll be doing this yet. If I do go, I will definitely make a post updating this thread.

Hey Chelo, definitely stop by YQT on your way to Winnipeg. There are lots of 703/704 operators and most of them do a lot of flying. For example, Wasaya, Air Bravo, Thunder just name a few. The problem your going to run into is that with the total time you have, your likely going to have to work the ramp initially or work as dispatcher. It sucks that after spending all that money and putting in all that effort you might be loading cargo or working a desk for 6-9 months but that's the nature of the industry. It sounds like instructing isn't for you and that's ok. The industry is full of instructors that are in it for the wrong reasons or just aren't cut out for teaching. So good for you for opting otherwise.

Wasaya has a 'wannabe' program where they will stick you in Red Lake or Pickle Lake to work the ramp. After several months of working the ramp you will receive a right seat PCC on the Caravan and you will fly right seat until you accrue 1000 hrs TT. The Caravans fly a ton! It's not uncommon for the Caravan guys to max out at 150 hrs a month. So when you do start flying you will build time very quickly. Once you hit that 1000 hr mark you can move within the company to different equipment, PC12, B1900, basically wherever there is a vacancy. That great about it is that you get your seniority number as soon as you get a PCC! So when you do reach the 1000 hr mark, you will have seniority over guys who got hired after you even though they may have 2000-3000 hrs. I worked for Wasaya and I really enjoyed my time there. The CP is a great guy and they really appreciate guy/girls dropping of their resumes in person.

Air Bravo is another company that would take you with low time. You would have to work as a dispatcher for several months and then you would begin flying part time on charters as they come up. Ive worked for both companies and Wasaya is the better option without a doubt. You can PM for more details if you like.

My advice would be don't be afraid of putting in some hard work on the ramp or the desk. If you have a great attitude and work hard, you will get your chance!
PM if you have any questions!

Best of luck!

FM

PM Sent. Thank you for the great post.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Right seat on a Caravan? Is that a joke? Is that what they do to you, make you swamp on a Caravan instead of working the ramp? That's a promotion? You can't log that. Is there a column for single-pilot copilot?

You don't learn by watching, you learn by doing! If you are in the Caravan and "the pilot" is in the right seat, fair enough. Otherwise, I have to praise our operators for their creativity and their ability to find new ways to get guys to wash the hangar floor.

Good luck with that.

Wasaya has been doing that for the past 10+ years actually. I remember flying out of YRL back in 04ish and they were doing this long before that.

A good example of how many dumb pilots have been sucked in by this questionable operation.
As xsbank says....you CANT log it! It's useles. The Caravan is a SINGLE pilot aircraft. If you think this is a career move, give your head a shake m
Illya

[FlyHigh13]

The PC12 is a single pilot aircraft but you can log co-pilot time on it if it is required to be operated 2 crew in your COM. Transport counts that time. Not sure if the van is the same with that regard though.

[Diadem]

The King Air is a single-pilot aircraft too. I wonder if Illya has informed his co-pilots that they can't log their time...
Other single-pilot aircraft include the Twin Otter, the Beech 1900, most Metros, the Navajo, and the list goes on. Here are the only two-crew aircraft, as designated by TC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm

[glorifieddriver]

Well Illya has many valid points, I like people like him because they are very harsh on the reality, and things he says makes you really wonder what is what, which in turn should be able to point you in the right direction. Although it might be information you want to interpret for your own sake...

As for me, I would rather ride along in the van for a year and learn a thing or two about real flying outside of my narrow scope than . bags in hope of a co-jo seat on something a little heavier. At the end of the day, I personally got into this industry to fly...in whatever means of flying it could be. If it means paying my dues in a right seat of a single engine/single pilot aircraft and nothing else is up on the table to choose from, well let it be then. Because at the end of the day I will do something I enjoy and I will learn a thing or two in the process. I have big dreams too, I believe to deserve a bit more than that seat, but at the end of the day, I have nothing special to offer in flight experience.

Let's keep this thread on topic, as my last few days are counting down before I set off, and I will slightly steal it from the original poster and will update you guys on my adventure. Just got a set of winter tires installed today, finishing printing out a bunch of resumes and really having a struggle on the route. My issue is deciding how to include Moosonee on the trip, without wasting useful days (Deadline for me to return is 14th of March) and I have a mindset of dropping into Wolverine Air as well, which is quite some country ahead of me. So far, my though is to hit up Moosonee on Monday or Tuesday morning (I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE SOMEONE TO PITCH IN SOME EXPERIENCE WITH GOING THERE, SHOULD I PLAN AN OVERNIGHT? OR IS THERE ANY WAY TO MAKE IT ON THE RETURN TRIP ON THE TRAIN? FROM MEMORY ONLY FEW HOURS IN BETWEEN THERE) after that, drive to Thunder Bay, spend a day there (Wasaya, Air Bravo, Private Air, Thunder Airlines....any more suggestions??) Then onto Sioux and Red Lake for the next day....after that I am still unclear where I should set my sails to...

[Illya Kuryakin]

The King Air is a single-pilot aircraft too. I wonder if Illya has informed his co-pilots that they can't log their time...
Other single-pilot aircraft include the Twin Otter, the Beech 1900, most Metros, the Navajo, and the list goes on. Here are the only two-crew aircraft, as designated by TC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm

If you fly with me mate, you can log it all as PIC! I have enough thanks. LOLA!
Illya

[Scudrunner703]

Stop by Cochrane airport. Skywrench aviation does the maintenance for both Moosonee outfits. You might catch someone there. Good luck.

[powerbrian]

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[glorifieddriver]

For Wasaya, do you go to the airport office? Or do you go to their main office in town? Can anyone pitch any info on this?

[FlyingMonkey]

YQT Airport office for Wasaya. That's where the CP's office is located.

[glorifieddriver]

YQT Airport office for Wasaya. That's where the CP's office is located.

Thank you!

[xsbank]

You know that old chestnut about taxation being the art of plucking the goose without it hissing? That is precisely the process going on here. These outfits will work you hard for as long as they can before you start hissing or you quit. They won't train the locals to be rampies because they won't work for as little money or for as many hours as a Wannabe will.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try this route or accept an entry-level job, but make sure you are hired as a pilot-in-training, not a rampie. If they don't talk to you about their plan to check you out as a pilot, watch out.

[glorifieddriver]

So, I have been spending countless nights awake trying to find the magic route, but with all the places I want to go to, it just does not work. I have a little over two weeks and departing from Toronto no later than Monday morning...meaning I could be at Thunder Bay by Tuesday am and ready to visit places. What would you guys recommend I cut out from this trip? Fort Simpson, Yellowknife, Whitehorse? Vancouver? Edmonton? I have a very hard deciding how far to venture, and really is there a point to go out to Whitehorse to visit one or two potential operators, while killing 60+ hours of driving.... I could really use some help here

[cdnpilot77]

I'm not sure there will be much available to you west of Calgary, but maybe 1 or 2 operators in the lower mainland? Definitely go North to Yellowknife, but again, I think Whitehorse probably isn't worth the time, unless you were going to fly and even then, the operators I know of up there generally look for more flight time than what you have to offer.

[glorifieddriver]

Thanks for the advice and that is where I have a struggle. I am going out this far, and I feel bad not to take the extra time to get here and there, but then you end up covering the whole country with that mentality and that is just not possible in my time frame. I will rule out Whitehorse and Fort Simpson for now out of trip. Its a lot of km for a very few operators. Vancouver is out too, because I do not think I stand a chance against the local pool of pilots.

Now the big decision to make is do I go to Moosonee first? Or leave for a later date as a stand alone trip? Go instead straight to Thunder Bay and Sioux and Pickle Lake and area there, onto MB, SK, AB? Or do I take the time to make my first stop at Moosonee? Can someone please shed some light on Wabusk and Bushland with recent info, more so regarding people randomly showing up at the front steps?

[glorifieddriver]

Anyone willing to pitch in any info in my case for dropping into Bearskin, Calm Air and WestWind? Do these companies ever hire low timers? I read some stuff, and from the sound it was not known for anyone with low time to get in. Any recent info will be appreciated. I guess it does not hurt to talk to someone for future sake, but in any case I do not want to look silly coming into places that I am deff not qualified for.

Thanks

GD